Discussion:
And now, the Boris Burrow
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Recliner
2021-02-14 11:56:57 UTC
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Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.

<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Graeme Wall
2021-02-14 13:17:52 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
He's been reading Jules Verne again!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Sam Wilson
2021-02-14 14:19:52 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Nothing if not ambitious. HS4 between Carlisle and Belfast, anyone?

“A generation ago, as the European Union opened the single market, the
Channel tunnel reduced journey times between London and Paris to two hours
and 16 minutes. As Brexit brings a renewed focus on the British Isles, this
scheme promises to bring Belfast within four hours of the capital, and
Dublin within six hours.

“For the rail industry, it is part of a long-term ambition to reduce
journeys by rail between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh to below three
hours, which it is also advocating in the review. Trains to Belfast would
turn west near Carlisle, around the Scottish border, and lorries bound for
Ireland could be loaded there.”

Sam
--
The entity formerly known as ***@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply
Certes
2021-02-14 16:39:41 UTC
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Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Nothing if not ambitious. HS4 between Carlisle and Belfast, anyone?
“A generation ago, as the European Union opened the single market, the
Channel tunnel reduced journey times between London and Paris to two hours
and 16 minutes. As Brexit brings a renewed focus on the British Isles, this
scheme promises to bring Belfast within four hours of the capital, and
Dublin within six hours.
“For the rail industry, it is part of a long-term ambition to reduce
journeys by rail between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh to below three
hours, which it is also advocating in the review. Trains to Belfast would
turn west near Carlisle, around the Scottish border, and lorries bound for
Ireland could be loaded there.”
It would be a useful strategic link, if Stranraer-Carlisle can be
rebuilt and Stranraer-Glasgow upgraded. In a world with unlimited
money, I'd love to see it happen. Unfortunately, Ireland is a lot
smaller than Europe, and Belfast has fewer customers than Paris.
Dublin is a similar size to Brussels, but Brussels is the gateway to a
thriving network of cities rather than a field of sheep.
Recliner
2021-02-14 16:54:44 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Certes
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Nothing if not ambitious. HS4 between Carlisle and Belfast, anyone?
“A generation ago, as the European Union opened the single market, the
Channel tunnel reduced journey times between London and Paris to two hours
and 16 minutes. As Brexit brings a renewed focus on the British Isles, this
scheme promises to bring Belfast within four hours of the capital, and
Dublin within six hours.
“For the rail industry, it is part of a long-term ambition to reduce
journeys by rail between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh to below three
hours, which it is also advocating in the review. Trains to Belfast would
turn west near Carlisle, around the Scottish border, and lorries bound for
Ireland could be loaded there.”
It would be a useful strategic link, if Stranraer-Carlisle can be
rebuilt and Stranraer-Glasgow upgraded. In a world with unlimited
money, I'd love to see it happen. Unfortunately, Ireland is a lot
smaller than Europe, and Belfast has fewer customers than Paris.
Dublin is a similar size to Brussels, but Brussels is the gateway to a
thriving network of cities rather than a field of sheep.
Yes, there's almost no chance this will happen — it's even less likely than
the mythical Boris Island Airport ever was. It'll be talked about and
subject to studies for the rest of his premiership, then be quietly
forgotten.
Sam Wilson
2021-02-14 23:14:42 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Certes
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Nothing if not ambitious. HS4 between Carlisle and Belfast, anyone?
“A generation ago, as the European Union opened the single market, the
Channel tunnel reduced journey times between London and Paris to two hours
and 16 minutes. As Brexit brings a renewed focus on the British Isles, this
scheme promises to bring Belfast within four hours of the capital, and
Dublin within six hours.
“For the rail industry, it is part of a long-term ambition to reduce
journeys by rail between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh to below three
hours, which it is also advocating in the review. Trains to Belfast would
turn west near Carlisle, around the Scottish border, and lorries bound for
Ireland could be loaded there.”
It would be a useful strategic link, if Stranraer-Carlisle can be
rebuilt and Stranraer-Glasgow upgraded. In a world with unlimited
money, I'd love to see it happen. Unfortunately, Ireland is a lot
smaller than Europe, and Belfast has fewer customers than Paris.
Dublin is a similar size to Brussels, but Brussels is the gateway to a
thriving network of cities rather than a field of sheep.
Yes, there's almost no chance this will happen — it's even less likely than
the mythical Boris Island Airport ever was. It'll be talked about and
subject to studies for the rest of his premiership, then be quietly
forgotten.
Dead cat. What are we not supposed to be looking at (apart from the Brexit
shambles, the COVID shambles, the devolution shambles, etc)?

Sam
--
The entity formerly known as ***@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply
Recliner
2021-02-14 23:23:55 UTC
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Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Post by Certes
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Nothing if not ambitious. HS4 between Carlisle and Belfast, anyone?
“A generation ago, as the European Union opened the single market, the
Channel tunnel reduced journey times between London and Paris to two hours
and 16 minutes. As Brexit brings a renewed focus on the British Isles, this
scheme promises to bring Belfast within four hours of the capital, and
Dublin within six hours.
“For the rail industry, it is part of a long-term ambition to reduce
journeys by rail between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh to below three
hours, which it is also advocating in the review. Trains to Belfast would
turn west near Carlisle, around the Scottish border, and lorries bound for
Ireland could be loaded there.”
It would be a useful strategic link, if Stranraer-Carlisle can be
rebuilt and Stranraer-Glasgow upgraded. In a world with unlimited
money, I'd love to see it happen. Unfortunately, Ireland is a lot
smaller than Europe, and Belfast has fewer customers than Paris.
Dublin is a similar size to Brussels, but Brussels is the gateway to a
thriving network of cities rather than a field of sheep.
Yes, there's almost no chance this will happen — it's even less likely than
the mythical Boris Island Airport ever was. It'll be talked about and
subject to studies for the rest of his premiership, then be quietly
forgotten.
Dead cat. What are we not supposed to be looking at (apart from the Brexit
shambles, the COVID shambles, the devolution shambles, etc)?
He started this months ago, so it was probably meant to distract attention
from the Covid mess. Or maybe it's his signature way of keeping the union
together?
Marland
2021-02-15 00:30:33 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Post by Certes
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Nothing if not ambitious. HS4 between Carlisle and Belfast, anyone?
“A generation ago, as the European Union opened the single market, the
Channel tunnel reduced journey times between London and Paris to two hours
and 16 minutes. As Brexit brings a renewed focus on the British Isles, this
scheme promises to bring Belfast within four hours of the capital, and
Dublin within six hours.
“For the rail industry, it is part of a long-term ambition to reduce
journeys by rail between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh to below three
hours, which it is also advocating in the review. Trains to Belfast would
turn west near Carlisle, around the Scottish border, and lorries bound for
Ireland could be loaded there.”
It would be a useful strategic link, if Stranraer-Carlisle can be
rebuilt and Stranraer-Glasgow upgraded. In a world with unlimited
money, I'd love to see it happen. Unfortunately, Ireland is a lot
smaller than Europe, and Belfast has fewer customers than Paris.
Dublin is a similar size to Brussels, but Brussels is the gateway to a
thriving network of cities rather than a field of sheep.
Yes, there's almost no chance this will happen — it's even less likely than
the mythical Boris Island Airport ever was. It'll be talked about and
subject to studies for the rest of his premiership, then be quietly
forgotten.
Dead cat. What are we not supposed to be looking at (apart from the Brexit
shambles, the COVID shambles, the devolution shambles, etc)?
He started this months ago, so it was probably meant to distract attention
from the Covid mess. Or maybe it's his signature way of keeping the union
together?
Shades of building the Canadian Pacific Railway 140 years ago , though
there I think the population on the whole wanted to stay together against
the influence of the neighbours.
This time they may decide that joining with the neighbours is more
desirable.


GH
MB
2021-02-15 07:57:20 UTC
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Post by Recliner
He started this months ago, so it was probably meant to distract attention
from the Covid mess. Or maybe it's his signature way of keeping the union
together?
Or someone could have asked a question at a press conference and he gave
a neutral answer, not trying to be too specific?

I posted last night that it seems less likely after the EU's meddling in
the Northern Ireland situation. I think they would have to be prepared
to fund it fully and I doubt that can afford that. Also news reports in
the last couple of months that even the Germans are getting dissatisfied
with the EU.
Marland
2021-02-14 18:51:24 UTC
Reply
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Post by Certes
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Nothing if not ambitious. HS4 between Carlisle and Belfast, anyone?
“A generation ago, as the European Union opened the single market, the
Channel tunnel reduced journey times between London and Paris to two hours
and 16 minutes. As Brexit brings a renewed focus on the British Isles, this
scheme promises to bring Belfast within four hours of the capital, and
Dublin within six hours.
“For the rail industry, it is part of a long-term ambition to reduce
journeys by rail between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh to below three
hours, which it is also advocating in the review. Trains to Belfast would
turn west near Carlisle, around the Scottish border, and lorries bound for
Ireland could be loaded there.”
It would be a useful strategic link, if Stranraer-Carlisle can be
rebuilt and Stranraer-Glasgow upgraded. In a world with unlimited
money, I'd love to see it happen. Unfortunately, Ireland is a lot
smaller than Europe, and Belfast has fewer customers than Paris.
Dublin is a similar size to Brussels, but Brussels is the gateway to a
thriving network of cities rather than a field of sheep.
Brexit has meant that investment in ferry facilities direct from the
European mainland to the part of Ireland that is still a member of the EU
to avoid the UK land bridge has been considerable. While ferries can be
withdrawn just as easily and old habits like using the land bridge die hard
by the time a tunnel is built bypassing the UK for most goods to and from
Ireland could well have become the normal method and changing habits again
to use a tunnel link could be a challenge.
Through rail freight will have the gauge problem as well which while that
can be overcome to an extent by various means adds further cost to
developing rail flows.

GH
Graeme Wall
2021-02-14 19:08:52 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Certes
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Nothing if not ambitious. HS4 between Carlisle and Belfast, anyone?
“A generation ago, as the European Union opened the single market, the
Channel tunnel reduced journey times between London and Paris to two hours
and 16 minutes. As Brexit brings a renewed focus on the British Isles, this
scheme promises to bring Belfast within four hours of the capital, and
Dublin within six hours.
“For the rail industry, it is part of a long-term ambition to reduce
journeys by rail between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh to below three
hours, which it is also advocating in the review. Trains to Belfast would
turn west near Carlisle, around the Scottish border, and lorries bound for
Ireland could be loaded there.”
It would be a useful strategic link, if Stranraer-Carlisle can be
rebuilt and Stranraer-Glasgow upgraded. In a world with unlimited
money, I'd love to see it happen. Unfortunately, Ireland is a lot
smaller than Europe, and Belfast has fewer customers than Paris.
Dublin is a similar size to Brussels, but Brussels is the gateway to a
thriving network of cities rather than a field of sheep.
Brexit has meant that investment in ferry facilities direct from the
European mainland to the part of Ireland that is still a member of the EU
to avoid the UK land bridge has been considerable. While ferries can be
withdrawn just as easily and old habits like using the land bridge die hard
by the time a tunnel is built bypassing the UK for most goods to and from
Ireland could well have become the normal method and changing habits again
to use a tunnel link could be a challenge.
Through rail freight will have the gauge problem as well which while that
can be overcome to an extent by various means adds further cost to
developing rail flows.
Also more than an outside chance that neither end of the tunnel will be
in the UK by the time they start, never mind finish, building it.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2021-02-14 16:01:08 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge
-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f
78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
I heard this on the radio this morning. April 1st has come early!
--
Roland Perry
Mark Goodge
2021-02-14 19:58:23 UTC
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On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 11:56:57 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
It's worth pointing out, for the benefit of those who haven't read the
article, that this is not the PM's suggestion but, rather, the
submission of the High-Speed Rail Group to the Union Connectivity Review
of transport links within the UK (which is about long-distance transport
generally, and not specifically about links between Northern Ireland and
Great Britain).

Equally, the HSRG's submission didn't just include a suggestion for a
Scotland-NI tunnel, but also various other rail schemes that they would
like to see constructed. And the reason it's news now, is because the
consultation period closed in December and the submissions made to the
consultation are now in the process of being published.

You can read the HSRG's response to the consultation here:

https://www.rail-leaders.com/publications/hsrgs-response-to-the-union-connectivity-review/
or https://tinyurl.com/5h5va7st

https://www.rail-leaders.com/wp-content/uploads/HSRG-Union-Connectivity-Review-Submission.pdf
or https://tinyurl.com/jnqpnch4

Mark
D A Stocks
2021-02-15 14:29:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road tunnel
link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length and depth to
that required to cross the North Channel. They have also proposed submerged
floating tunnels to eliminate ferries on the E39:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_route_E39#Future

Probably best to wait a decade or two to see how they get on ...

--
DAS
Recliner
2021-02-15 17:08:16 UTC
Reply
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Post by D A Stocks
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road tunnel
link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length and depth to
that required to cross the North Channel. They have also proposed submerged
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_route_E39#Future
Probably best to wait a decade or two to see how they get on ...
Or wait a year or two, when Boris is no longer PM, and it can be quietly
forgotten.
MB
2021-02-16 09:51:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D A Stocks
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road tunnel
link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length and depth
to that required to cross the North Channel. They have also proposed
I hope they ban cheese! :-)
Certes
2021-02-16 11:29:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D A Stocks
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road
tunnel link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length
and depth to that required to cross the North Channel. They have also
I hope they ban cheese!  :-)
The EU will certainly require us to have a customs queue leaving the NI
tunnel, where everyone is carefully searched for cheese sandwiches which
they might smuggle into the Republic of Ireland and onwards to France.
Graeme Wall
2021-02-16 12:25:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Certes
Post by D A Stocks
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road
tunnel link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length
and depth to that required to cross the North Channel. They have also
I hope they ban cheese!  :-)
The EU will certainly require us to have a customs queue leaving the NI
tunnel, where everyone is carefully searched for cheese sandwiches which
they might smuggle into the Republic of Ireland and onwards to France.
By the time it is built, neither end of the tunnel will be in the UK.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
MB
2021-02-16 19:30:02 UTC
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Post by Graeme Wall
By the time it is built, neither end of the tunnel will be in the UK.
That is why it will probably never built. The EU and Southern Ireland
are trying to get control of Northern Ireland (though not convinced
Southern Ireland really want all the problems it would give them.

I can't see Southern Ireland being able to afford it and the UK should
not contribute to it.

It would also need a lot spending in Scotland and if Sturgeon goes for
partition (if she has not gone by then) again the UK should not get
involved.

There are also a lot of doubts about the future of the EU so they cannot
be relied on to fund it.
Graeme Wall
2021-02-16 19:45:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
By the time it is built, neither end of the tunnel will be in the UK.
That is why it will probably never built.  The EU and Southern Ireland
are trying to get control of Northern Ireland (though not convinced
Southern Ireland really want all the problems it would give them.
I can't see Southern Ireland being able to afford it and the UK should
not contribute to it.
It would also need a lot spending in Scotland and if Sturgeon goes for
partition (if she has not gone by then) again the UK should not get
involved.
In that case there won't be a United Kingdom any more so your point is moot.
There are also a lot of doubts about the future of the EU so they cannot
be relied on to fund it.
Not as many as you might want.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Jeremy Double
2021-02-16 20:32:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
By the time it is built, neither end of the tunnel will be in the UK.
That is why it will probably never built.  The EU and Southern Ireland
are trying to get control of Northern Ireland (though not convinced
Southern Ireland really want all the problems it would give them.
I can't see Southern Ireland being able to afford it and the UK should
not contribute to it.
It would also need a lot spending in Scotland and if Sturgeon goes for
partition (if she has not gone by then) again the UK should not get
involved.
In that case there won't be a United Kingdom any more so your point is moot.
United Kingdom of England and Wales?
Post by Graeme Wall
There are also a lot of doubts about the future of the EU so they cannot
be relied on to fund it.
Not as many as you might want.
--
Jeremy Double
Graeme Wall
2021-02-16 20:44:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeremy Double
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
By the time it is built, neither end of the tunnel will be in the UK.
That is why it will probably never built.  The EU and Southern Ireland
are trying to get control of Northern Ireland (though not convinced
Southern Ireland really want all the problems it would give them.
I can't see Southern Ireland being able to afford it and the UK should
not contribute to it.
It would also need a lot spending in Scotland and if Sturgeon goes for
partition (if she has not gone by then) again the UK should not get
involved.
In that case there won't be a United Kingdom any more so your point is moot.
United Kingdom of England and Wales?
Wales is not a kingdom
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Arthur Figgis
2021-02-16 22:16:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Jeremy Double
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
By the time it is built, neither end of the tunnel will be in the UK.
That is why it will probably never built.  The EU and Southern Ireland
are trying to get control of Northern Ireland (though not convinced
Southern Ireland really want all the problems it would give them.
I can't see Southern Ireland being able to afford it and the UK should
not contribute to it.
It would also need a lot spending in Scotland and if Sturgeon goes for
partition (if she has not gone by then) again the UK should not get
involved.
In that case there won't be a United Kingdom any more so your point is moot.
United Kingdom of England and Wales?
Wales is not a kingdom
Nor are England or Scotland. The UK is the kingdom. Ask Queen Anne.
Except we can't because she's dead.
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
MB
2021-02-16 12:31:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Certes
Post by D A Stocks
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road
tunnel link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length
and depth to that required to cross the North Channel. They have also
I hope they ban cheese! :-)
The EU will certainly require us to have a customs queue leaving the NI
tunnel, where everyone is carefully searched for cheese sandwiches which
they might smuggle into the Republic of Ireland and onwards to France.
Nothing to do with smuggling cheese sandwiches!


2013
Burning Cheese Closes Norwegian Road For Days
It was probably a first for Norway when a truck trailer full of sweet
goat cheese caught fire near the town of Narvik late last week, blocking
a road tunnel. it took four days for firefighters to put out the flames.
No one was hurt. Norwegian Broadcasting says the tunnel was so badly
damaged that geologists are checking it for safety, and any lingering
toxic gases.
Graeme Wall
2021-02-16 12:32:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MB
Post by Certes
Post by D A Stocks
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road
tunnel link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of
length and depth to that required to cross the North Channel. They
have also proposed submerged floating tunnels to eliminate ferries
I hope they ban cheese! :-)
The EU will certainly require us to have a customs queue leaving the NI
tunnel, where everyone is carefully searched for cheese sandwiches which
they might smuggle into the Republic of Ireland and onwards to France.
Nothing to do with smuggling cheese sandwiches!
2013
Burning Cheese Closes Norwegian Road For Days
It was probably a first for Norway when a truck trailer full of sweet
goat cheese caught fire near the town of Narvik late last week, blocking
a road tunnel. it took four days for firefighters to put out the flames.
No one was hurt. Norwegian Broadcasting says the tunnel was so badly
damaged that geologists are checking it for safety, and any lingering
toxic gases.
The ultimate fondue.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Basil Jet
2021-02-16 14:09:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MB
2013
Burning Cheese Closes Norwegian Road For Days
It was probably a first for Norway when a truck trailer full of sweet
goat cheese caught fire near the town of Narvik late last week, blocking
a road tunnel. it took four days for firefighters to put out the flames.
No one was hurt. Norwegian Broadcasting says the tunnel was so badly
damaged that geologists are checking it for safety, and any lingering
toxic gases.
A rare bit of excitement for them.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
The Lost Tapes - Can
Sam Wilson
2021-02-16 19:09:18 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
Post by MB
2013
Burning Cheese Closes Norwegian Road For Days
It was probably a first for Norway when a truck trailer full of sweet
goat cheese caught fire near the town of Narvik late last week, blocking
a road tunnel. it took four days for firefighters to put out the flames.
No one was hurt. Norwegian Broadcasting says the tunnel was so badly
damaged that geologists are checking it for safety, and any lingering
toxic gases.
A rare bit of excitement for them.
I don’t suppose it could ever happen on the A55 or the A40?

Sam
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The entity formerly known as ***@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply
bob
2021-02-16 12:36:32 UTC
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Post by Certes
Post by D A Stocks
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road
tunnel link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length
and depth to that required to cross the North Channel. They have also
I hope they ban cheese! :-)
The EU will certainly require us to have a customs queue leaving the NI
tunnel, where everyone is carefully searched for cheese sandwiches which
they might smuggle into the Republic of Ireland and onwards to France.
The EU was perfectly happy to have an arrangement with no customs border in
the Irish Sea, it was written into the agreement with Theresa May. The
decision to have a customs border in the Irish Sea was the decision of the UK
parliament.

Robin
Roland Perry
2021-02-16 13:20:20 UTC
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In message
Post by bob
Post by Certes
Post by D A Stocks
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road
tunnel link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length
and depth to that required to cross the North Channel. They have also
I hope they ban cheese! :-)
The EU will certainly require us to have a customs queue leaving the NI
tunnel, where everyone is carefully searched for cheese sandwiches which
they might smuggle into the Republic of Ireland and onwards to France.
The EU was perfectly happy to have an arrangement with no customs border in
the Irish Sea, it was written into the agreement with Theresa May. The
decision to have a customs border in the Irish Sea was the decision of the UK
parliament.
The new one under Boris, who had previously said that no such revised
agreement was possible.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2021-02-16 14:34:13 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
In message
Post by bob
Post by Certes
Post by D A Stocks
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road
tunnel link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length
and depth to that required to cross the North Channel. They have also
I hope they ban cheese! :-)
The EU will certainly require us to have a customs queue leaving the NI
tunnel, where everyone is carefully searched for cheese sandwiches which
they might smuggle into the Republic of Ireland and onwards to France.
The EU was perfectly happy to have an arrangement with no customs border in
the Irish Sea, it was written into the agreement with Theresa May. The
decision to have a customs border in the Irish Sea was the decision of the UK
parliament.
The new one under Boris, who had previously said that no such revised
agreement was possible.
Specifically, he flatly denied that there would need to be a customs border between GB and NI. Even he must have been
well aware when he told the blatant lie that a hard Brexit meant that there would inevitably have to be a customs border
between GB and the EU, and the GF treaty prevented it being between NI and Ireland, while the EU would certainly stop it
being between Ireland and the rest of the EU. That meant that it logically had to be between GB and NI.

May's deal avoided that problem by keeping GB on the EU customs union, but that form of Brexit was much too soft for the
Vote Leave team that ran Boris for his first year in office (now largely gone).
Graeme Wall
2021-02-16 14:49:48 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
In message
Post by bob
Post by Certes
Post by D A Stocks
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road
tunnel link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length
and depth to that required to cross the North Channel. They have also
I hope they ban cheese! :-)
The EU will certainly require us to have a customs queue leaving the NI
tunnel, where everyone is carefully searched for cheese sandwiches which
they might smuggle into the Republic of Ireland and onwards to France.
The EU was perfectly happy to have an arrangement with no customs border in
the Irish Sea, it was written into the agreement with Theresa May. The
decision to have a customs border in the Irish Sea was the decision of the UK
parliament.
The new one under Boris, who had previously said that no such revised
agreement was possible.
Specifically, he flatly denied that there would need to be a customs border between GB and NI. Even he must have been
well aware when he told the blatant lie that a hard Brexit meant that there would inevitably have to be a customs border
between GB and the EU, and the GF treaty prevented it being between NI and Ireland, while the EU would certainly stop it
being between Ireland and the rest of the EU. That meant that it logically had to be between GB and NI.
May's deal avoided that problem by keeping GB on the EU customs union, but that form of Brexit was much too soft for the
Vote Leave team that ran Boris for his first year in office (now largely gone).
The simple answer, not just for the NI problem but also all the other
problems now killing small businesses, the fishing industry and the
music industry, is to apply to join the Single Market and the Customs Union.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2021-02-16 15:28:59 UTC
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Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
In message
Post by bob
Post by Certes
Post by D A Stocks
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road
tunnel link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length
and depth to that required to cross the North Channel. They have also
I hope they ban cheese! :-)
The EU will certainly require us to have a customs queue leaving the NI
tunnel, where everyone is carefully searched for cheese sandwiches which
they might smuggle into the Republic of Ireland and onwards to France.
The EU was perfectly happy to have an arrangement with no customs border in
the Irish Sea, it was written into the agreement with Theresa May. The
decision to have a customs border in the Irish Sea was the decision of the UK
parliament.
The new one under Boris, who had previously said that no such revised
agreement was possible.
Specifically, he flatly denied that there would need to be a customs border between GB and NI. Even he must have been
well aware when he told the blatant lie that a hard Brexit meant that there would inevitably have to be a customs border
between GB and the EU, and the GF treaty prevented it being between NI and Ireland, while the EU would certainly stop it
being between Ireland and the rest of the EU. That meant that it logically had to be between GB and NI.
May's deal avoided that problem by keeping GB on the EU customs union, but that form of Brexit was much too soft for the
Vote Leave team that ran Boris for his first year in office (now largely gone).
The simple answer, not just for the NI problem but also all the other
problems now killing small businesses, the fishing industry and the
music industry, is to apply to join the Single Market and the Customs Union.
I'm not sure that a soft Brexit like that would appeal to anyone. You can either be a full EU member, and play a part in
setting and agreeing the rules, or be completely out. I would have preferred the former, but now we must make the most
of the latter. There's little benefit in being an associate member, subject to the rules, but not having any say over
them.

I think many of the customs issues are short-term and soluble. Some simply require more familiarity with the rules (both
for traders and the authorities), while others need business to change how they sell to the EU, to make it more like
they sell to others. This might mean having distributors within the EU to deal with individual customers, rather than
doing it directly.

For the bivalve molluscs, the EU should probably be more flexible, as it had apparently promised, or we need to set up
the purifying facilities on our side. So, for example, we could set up export purification tanks in Kent to handle all
live mollusc UK exports via the Tunnel and Dover, replacing the EU plants that currently do the job on the other side of
the Channel. In other words, we should add the value on our side of the Channel, rather than exporting a lower value
product to be purified by plants on the other side. It looks like a business opportunity for someone, and let's hope we
are the ones to take it, rather than expecting, say, the Dutch to set up such plants in Kent.

The touring musicians problem need some accommodation by both sides. Our Home Office was too adamant about restricting
such visits to the UK, and didn't think through the consequences for our own touring performers; but the EU is also
being too bureaucratic. This seems like an easy problem to solve if both sides weren't so pig-headed.
Roland Perry
2021-02-16 16:35:18 UTC
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On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 14:49:48 +0000, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
In message
Post by bob
Post by Certes
Post by D A Stocks
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road
tunnel link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length
and depth to that required to cross the North Channel. They have also
I hope they ban cheese! :-)
The EU will certainly require us to have a customs queue leaving the NI
tunnel, where everyone is carefully searched for cheese sandwiches which
they might smuggle into the Republic of Ireland and onwards to France.
The EU was perfectly happy to have an arrangement with no customs border in
the Irish Sea, it was written into the agreement with Theresa May. The
decision to have a customs border in the Irish Sea was the
decision of the UK
parliament.
The new one under Boris, who had previously said that no such revised
agreement was possible.
Specifically, he flatly denied that there would need to be a customs
border between GB and NI. Even he must have been
well aware when he told the blatant lie that a hard Brexit meant
that there would inevitably have to be a customs border
between GB and the EU, and the GF treaty prevented it being between
NI and Ireland, while the EU would certainly stop it
being between Ireland and the rest of the EU. That meant that it
logically had to be between GB and NI.
May's deal avoided that problem by keeping GB on the EU customs
union, but that form of Brexit was much too soft for the
Vote Leave team that ran Boris for his first year in office (now largely gone).
The simple answer, not just for the NI problem but also all the other
problems now killing small businesses, the fishing industry and the
music industry, is to apply to join the Single Market and the Customs Union.
I'm not sure that a soft Brexit like that would appeal to anyone.
It was what the leave campaign promised gullible floating voters would
be the worst possible outcome, in the sense of lower-bound friction
rather than least pandering to the BRINO brigade.

And what did Gove mean when he said: "There is a free trade zone
stretching from Iceland to Turkey that all European nations have access
to - after we vote to leave we will remain in this zone."
You can either be a full EU member, and play a part in setting and
agreeing the rules, or be completely out. I would have preferred the
former, but now we must make the most of the latter. There's little
benefit in being an associate member, subject to the rules, but not
having any say over them.
Although that solution, "Norway style", was commonly mentioned.

I agree of course that it's problematic, having as I've said many times
before, worked with the outside-of-the-tent
man-from-the-telecoms-ministry from Norway, as he tried to get as much
possible grip on the proceedings in Brussels. Not least of course
because telecoms (and privacy, which these days is almost entirely about
online privacy) regulation has been one of the main items on the table.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2021-02-16 17:14:42 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 14:49:48 +0000, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
In message
Post by bob
Post by Certes
Post by D A Stocks
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road
tunnel link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length
and depth to that required to cross the North Channel. They have also
I hope they ban cheese! :-)
The EU will certainly require us to have a customs queue leaving the NI
tunnel, where everyone is carefully searched for cheese sandwiches which
they might smuggle into the Republic of Ireland and onwards to France.
The EU was perfectly happy to have an arrangement with no customs border in
the Irish Sea, it was written into the agreement with Theresa May. The
decision to have a customs border in the Irish Sea was the decision of the UK
parliament.
The new one under Boris, who had previously said that no such revised
agreement was possible.
Specifically, he flatly denied that there would need to be a customs
border between GB and NI. Even he must have been
well aware when he told the blatant lie that a hard Brexit meant
that there would inevitably have to be a customs border
between GB and the EU, and the GF treaty prevented it being between
NI and Ireland, while the EU would certainly stop it
being between Ireland and the rest of the EU. That meant that it
logically had to be between GB and NI.
May's deal avoided that problem by keeping GB on the EU customs
union, but that form of Brexit was much too soft for the
Vote Leave team that ran Boris for his first year in office (now largely gone).
The simple answer, not just for the NI problem but also all the other
problems now killing small businesses, the fishing industry and the
music industry, is to apply to join the Single Market and the Customs Union.
I'm not sure that a soft Brexit like that would appeal to anyone.
It was what the leave campaign promised gullible floating voters would
be the worst possible outcome, in the sense of lower-bound friction
rather than least pandering to the BRINO brigade.
And what did Gove mean when he said: "There is a free trade zone
stretching from Iceland to Turkey that all European nations have access
to - after we vote to leave we will remain in this zone."
Well, strictly speaking, he was right. We do have free trade with that EU
zone, but are outside the customs union, just like Switzerland, Norway or
Turkey. Trade will get smoother once everyone gets used to the new
formalities, but it won't ever be as frictionless as it used to be until
two months ago.
Post by Roland Perry
You can either be a full EU member, and play a part in setting and
agreeing the rules, or be completely out. I would have preferred the
former, but now we must make the most of the latter. There's little
benefit in being an associate member, subject to the rules, but not
having any say over them.
Although that solution, "Norway style", was commonly mentioned.
I agree of course that it's problematic, having as I've said many times
before, worked with the outside-of-the-tent
man-from-the-telecoms-ministry from Norway, as he tried to get as much
possible grip on the proceedings in Brussels. Not least of course
because telecoms (and privacy, which these days is almost entirely about
online privacy) regulation has been one of the main items on the table.
One clear difference is that we have the stated intention of diverging from
the EU, whereas the other non-EU European members are hoping to converge
with the EU. The EU is taking that to mean that we've already diverged,
which clearly is not the case, and not likely any time soon.
MB
2021-02-16 22:17:24 UTC
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Post by Recliner
I think many of the customs issues are short-term and soluble.
Many of the border issues seem to being produced by the EU amd French in
particular.
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2021-02-15 20:10:44 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
I thought that the main problem with prospective building of a fixed
link between Britain and Ireland was the fact that the earth between the
two islands is mainly sand.
Dudbridge Donkey
2021-02-16 10:48:43 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
I would rather he pushed for a new Severn Tunnel.

Peter (Stroud, Glos)
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Recliner
2021-02-16 14:36:12 UTC
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Post by Dudbridge Donkey
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
I would rather he pushed for a new Severn Tunnel.
As the mythical tunnel won't be built, does it matter where the line on the map went? He might just as well have
proposed a Hebridean Tunnel.
ColinR
2021-02-16 15:13:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Dudbridge Donkey
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
I would rather he pushed for a new Severn Tunnel.
As the mythical tunnel won't be built, does it matter where the line on the map went? He might just as well have
proposed a Hebridean Tunnel.
Why the "he"?? See Mark Googe's post of 14th February which shows the
real origination of the idea....

Just because you have a down on Boris and, incorrectly, titled the
thread accordingly, showing your bias!
--
Colin
Recliner
2021-02-16 15:48:54 UTC
Reply
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Post by ColinR
Post by Recliner
Post by Dudbridge Donkey
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
I would rather he pushed for a new Severn Tunnel.
As the mythical tunnel won't be built, does it matter where the line on the map went? He might just as well have
proposed a Hebridean Tunnel.
Why the "he"?? See Mark Googe's post of 14th February which shows the
real origination of the idea....
Just because you have a down on Boris and, incorrectly, titled the
thread accordingly, showing your bias!
Boris has been pushing for this for a while, which is why it was added to the list to be considered. Peter Hendy knows
how to placate his old boss. It wasn't on anyone's list before that.
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