Discussion:
And now, the Boris Burrow
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Recliner
2021-02-14 11:56:57 UTC
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Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.

<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Graeme Wall
2021-02-14 13:17:52 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
He's been reading Jules Verne again!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Sam Wilson
2021-02-14 14:19:52 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Nothing if not ambitious. HS4 between Carlisle and Belfast, anyone?

“A generation ago, as the European Union opened the single market, the
Channel tunnel reduced journey times between London and Paris to two hours
and 16 minutes. As Brexit brings a renewed focus on the British Isles, this
scheme promises to bring Belfast within four hours of the capital, and
Dublin within six hours.

“For the rail industry, it is part of a long-term ambition to reduce
journeys by rail between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh to below three
hours, which it is also advocating in the review. Trains to Belfast would
turn west near Carlisle, around the Scottish border, and lorries bound for
Ireland could be loaded there.”

Sam
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Certes
2021-02-14 16:39:41 UTC
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Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Nothing if not ambitious. HS4 between Carlisle and Belfast, anyone?
“A generation ago, as the European Union opened the single market, the
Channel tunnel reduced journey times between London and Paris to two hours
and 16 minutes. As Brexit brings a renewed focus on the British Isles, this
scheme promises to bring Belfast within four hours of the capital, and
Dublin within six hours.
“For the rail industry, it is part of a long-term ambition to reduce
journeys by rail between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh to below three
hours, which it is also advocating in the review. Trains to Belfast would
turn west near Carlisle, around the Scottish border, and lorries bound for
Ireland could be loaded there.”
It would be a useful strategic link, if Stranraer-Carlisle can be
rebuilt and Stranraer-Glasgow upgraded. In a world with unlimited
money, I'd love to see it happen. Unfortunately, Ireland is a lot
smaller than Europe, and Belfast has fewer customers than Paris.
Dublin is a similar size to Brussels, but Brussels is the gateway to a
thriving network of cities rather than a field of sheep.
Recliner
2021-02-14 16:54:44 UTC
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Post by Certes
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Nothing if not ambitious. HS4 between Carlisle and Belfast, anyone?
“A generation ago, as the European Union opened the single market, the
Channel tunnel reduced journey times between London and Paris to two hours
and 16 minutes. As Brexit brings a renewed focus on the British Isles, this
scheme promises to bring Belfast within four hours of the capital, and
Dublin within six hours.
“For the rail industry, it is part of a long-term ambition to reduce
journeys by rail between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh to below three
hours, which it is also advocating in the review. Trains to Belfast would
turn west near Carlisle, around the Scottish border, and lorries bound for
Ireland could be loaded there.”
It would be a useful strategic link, if Stranraer-Carlisle can be
rebuilt and Stranraer-Glasgow upgraded. In a world with unlimited
money, I'd love to see it happen. Unfortunately, Ireland is a lot
smaller than Europe, and Belfast has fewer customers than Paris.
Dublin is a similar size to Brussels, but Brussels is the gateway to a
thriving network of cities rather than a field of sheep.
Yes, there's almost no chance this will happen — it's even less likely than
the mythical Boris Island Airport ever was. It'll be talked about and
subject to studies for the rest of his premiership, then be quietly
forgotten.
Sam Wilson
2021-02-14 23:14:42 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Certes
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Nothing if not ambitious. HS4 between Carlisle and Belfast, anyone?
“A generation ago, as the European Union opened the single market, the
Channel tunnel reduced journey times between London and Paris to two hours
and 16 minutes. As Brexit brings a renewed focus on the British Isles, this
scheme promises to bring Belfast within four hours of the capital, and
Dublin within six hours.
“For the rail industry, it is part of a long-term ambition to reduce
journeys by rail between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh to below three
hours, which it is also advocating in the review. Trains to Belfast would
turn west near Carlisle, around the Scottish border, and lorries bound for
Ireland could be loaded there.”
It would be a useful strategic link, if Stranraer-Carlisle can be
rebuilt and Stranraer-Glasgow upgraded. In a world with unlimited
money, I'd love to see it happen. Unfortunately, Ireland is a lot
smaller than Europe, and Belfast has fewer customers than Paris.
Dublin is a similar size to Brussels, but Brussels is the gateway to a
thriving network of cities rather than a field of sheep.
Yes, there's almost no chance this will happen — it's even less likely than
the mythical Boris Island Airport ever was. It'll be talked about and
subject to studies for the rest of his premiership, then be quietly
forgotten.
Dead cat. What are we not supposed to be looking at (apart from the Brexit
shambles, the COVID shambles, the devolution shambles, etc)?

Sam
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Recliner
2021-02-14 23:23:55 UTC
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Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Post by Certes
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Nothing if not ambitious. HS4 between Carlisle and Belfast, anyone?
“A generation ago, as the European Union opened the single market, the
Channel tunnel reduced journey times between London and Paris to two hours
and 16 minutes. As Brexit brings a renewed focus on the British Isles, this
scheme promises to bring Belfast within four hours of the capital, and
Dublin within six hours.
“For the rail industry, it is part of a long-term ambition to reduce
journeys by rail between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh to below three
hours, which it is also advocating in the review. Trains to Belfast would
turn west near Carlisle, around the Scottish border, and lorries bound for
Ireland could be loaded there.”
It would be a useful strategic link, if Stranraer-Carlisle can be
rebuilt and Stranraer-Glasgow upgraded. In a world with unlimited
money, I'd love to see it happen. Unfortunately, Ireland is a lot
smaller than Europe, and Belfast has fewer customers than Paris.
Dublin is a similar size to Brussels, but Brussels is the gateway to a
thriving network of cities rather than a field of sheep.
Yes, there's almost no chance this will happen — it's even less likely than
the mythical Boris Island Airport ever was. It'll be talked about and
subject to studies for the rest of his premiership, then be quietly
forgotten.
Dead cat. What are we not supposed to be looking at (apart from the Brexit
shambles, the COVID shambles, the devolution shambles, etc)?
He started this months ago, so it was probably meant to distract attention
from the Covid mess. Or maybe it's his signature way of keeping the union
together?
Marland
2021-02-15 00:30:33 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Post by Certes
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Nothing if not ambitious. HS4 between Carlisle and Belfast, anyone?
“A generation ago, as the European Union opened the single market, the
Channel tunnel reduced journey times between London and Paris to two hours
and 16 minutes. As Brexit brings a renewed focus on the British Isles, this
scheme promises to bring Belfast within four hours of the capital, and
Dublin within six hours.
“For the rail industry, it is part of a long-term ambition to reduce
journeys by rail between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh to below three
hours, which it is also advocating in the review. Trains to Belfast would
turn west near Carlisle, around the Scottish border, and lorries bound for
Ireland could be loaded there.”
It would be a useful strategic link, if Stranraer-Carlisle can be
rebuilt and Stranraer-Glasgow upgraded. In a world with unlimited
money, I'd love to see it happen. Unfortunately, Ireland is a lot
smaller than Europe, and Belfast has fewer customers than Paris.
Dublin is a similar size to Brussels, but Brussels is the gateway to a
thriving network of cities rather than a field of sheep.
Yes, there's almost no chance this will happen — it's even less likely than
the mythical Boris Island Airport ever was. It'll be talked about and
subject to studies for the rest of his premiership, then be quietly
forgotten.
Dead cat. What are we not supposed to be looking at (apart from the Brexit
shambles, the COVID shambles, the devolution shambles, etc)?
He started this months ago, so it was probably meant to distract attention
from the Covid mess. Or maybe it's his signature way of keeping the union
together?
Shades of building the Canadian Pacific Railway 140 years ago , though
there I think the population on the whole wanted to stay together against
the influence of the neighbours.
This time they may decide that joining with the neighbours is more
desirable.


GH
MB
2021-02-15 07:57:20 UTC
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Post by Recliner
He started this months ago, so it was probably meant to distract attention
from the Covid mess. Or maybe it's his signature way of keeping the union
together?
Or someone could have asked a question at a press conference and he gave
a neutral answer, not trying to be too specific?

I posted last night that it seems less likely after the EU's meddling in
the Northern Ireland situation. I think they would have to be prepared
to fund it fully and I doubt that can afford that. Also news reports in
the last couple of months that even the Germans are getting dissatisfied
with the EU.
Marland
2021-02-14 18:51:24 UTC
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Post by Certes
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Nothing if not ambitious. HS4 between Carlisle and Belfast, anyone?
“A generation ago, as the European Union opened the single market, the
Channel tunnel reduced journey times between London and Paris to two hours
and 16 minutes. As Brexit brings a renewed focus on the British Isles, this
scheme promises to bring Belfast within four hours of the capital, and
Dublin within six hours.
“For the rail industry, it is part of a long-term ambition to reduce
journeys by rail between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh to below three
hours, which it is also advocating in the review. Trains to Belfast would
turn west near Carlisle, around the Scottish border, and lorries bound for
Ireland could be loaded there.”
It would be a useful strategic link, if Stranraer-Carlisle can be
rebuilt and Stranraer-Glasgow upgraded. In a world with unlimited
money, I'd love to see it happen. Unfortunately, Ireland is a lot
smaller than Europe, and Belfast has fewer customers than Paris.
Dublin is a similar size to Brussels, but Brussels is the gateway to a
thriving network of cities rather than a field of sheep.
Brexit has meant that investment in ferry facilities direct from the
European mainland to the part of Ireland that is still a member of the EU
to avoid the UK land bridge has been considerable. While ferries can be
withdrawn just as easily and old habits like using the land bridge die hard
by the time a tunnel is built bypassing the UK for most goods to and from
Ireland could well have become the normal method and changing habits again
to use a tunnel link could be a challenge.
Through rail freight will have the gauge problem as well which while that
can be overcome to an extent by various means adds further cost to
developing rail flows.

GH
Graeme Wall
2021-02-14 19:08:52 UTC
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Post by Marland
Post by Certes
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
Nothing if not ambitious. HS4 between Carlisle and Belfast, anyone?
“A generation ago, as the European Union opened the single market, the
Channel tunnel reduced journey times between London and Paris to two hours
and 16 minutes. As Brexit brings a renewed focus on the British Isles, this
scheme promises to bring Belfast within four hours of the capital, and
Dublin within six hours.
“For the rail industry, it is part of a long-term ambition to reduce
journeys by rail between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh to below three
hours, which it is also advocating in the review. Trains to Belfast would
turn west near Carlisle, around the Scottish border, and lorries bound for
Ireland could be loaded there.”
It would be a useful strategic link, if Stranraer-Carlisle can be
rebuilt and Stranraer-Glasgow upgraded. In a world with unlimited
money, I'd love to see it happen. Unfortunately, Ireland is a lot
smaller than Europe, and Belfast has fewer customers than Paris.
Dublin is a similar size to Brussels, but Brussels is the gateway to a
thriving network of cities rather than a field of sheep.
Brexit has meant that investment in ferry facilities direct from the
European mainland to the part of Ireland that is still a member of the EU
to avoid the UK land bridge has been considerable. While ferries can be
withdrawn just as easily and old habits like using the land bridge die hard
by the time a tunnel is built bypassing the UK for most goods to and from
Ireland could well have become the normal method and changing habits again
to use a tunnel link could be a challenge.
Through rail freight will have the gauge problem as well which while that
can be overcome to an extent by various means adds further cost to
developing rail flows.
Also more than an outside chance that neither end of the tunnel will be
in the UK by the time they start, never mind finish, building it.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2021-02-14 16:01:08 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge
-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f
78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
I heard this on the radio this morning. April 1st has come early!
--
Roland Perry
Mark Goodge
2021-02-14 19:58:23 UTC
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On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 11:56:57 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
It's worth pointing out, for the benefit of those who haven't read the
article, that this is not the PM's suggestion but, rather, the
submission of the High-Speed Rail Group to the Union Connectivity Review
of transport links within the UK (which is about long-distance transport
generally, and not specifically about links between Northern Ireland and
Great Britain).

Equally, the HSRG's submission didn't just include a suggestion for a
Scotland-NI tunnel, but also various other rail schemes that they would
like to see constructed. And the reason it's news now, is because the
consultation period closed in December and the submissions made to the
consultation are now in the process of being published.

You can read the HSRG's response to the consultation here:

https://www.rail-leaders.com/publications/hsrgs-response-to-the-union-connectivity-review/
or https://tinyurl.com/5h5va7st

https://www.rail-leaders.com/wp-content/uploads/HSRG-Union-Connectivity-Review-Submission.pdf
or https://tinyurl.com/jnqpnch4

Mark
D A Stocks
2021-02-15 14:29:37 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road tunnel
link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length and depth to
that required to cross the North Channel. They have also proposed submerged
floating tunnels to eliminate ferries on the E39:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_route_E39#Future

Probably best to wait a decade or two to see how they get on ...

--
DAS
Recliner
2021-02-15 17:08:16 UTC
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Post by D A Stocks
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road tunnel
link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length and depth to
that required to cross the North Channel. They have also proposed submerged
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_route_E39#Future
Probably best to wait a decade or two to see how they get on ...
Or wait a year or two, when Boris is no longer PM, and it can be quietly
forgotten.
MB
2021-02-16 09:51:06 UTC
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Permalink
Post by D A Stocks
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road tunnel
link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length and depth
to that required to cross the North Channel. They have also proposed
I hope they ban cheese! :-)
Certes
2021-02-16 11:29:30 UTC
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Permalink
Post by D A Stocks
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road
tunnel link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length
and depth to that required to cross the North Channel. They have also
I hope they ban cheese!  :-)
The EU will certainly require us to have a customs queue leaving the NI
tunnel, where everyone is carefully searched for cheese sandwiches which
they might smuggle into the Republic of Ireland and onwards to France.
Graeme Wall
2021-02-16 12:25:58 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Certes
Post by D A Stocks
I notice the Norwegians have started construction of a bored road
tunnel link at Rogfast which is on a similar scale in terms of length
and depth to that required to cross the North Channel. They have also
I hope they ban cheese!  :-)
The EU will certainly require us to have a customs queue leaving the NI
tunnel, where everyone is carefully searched for cheese sandwiches which
they might smuggle into the Republic of Ireland and onwards to France.
By the time it is built, neither end of the tunnel will be in the UK.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2021-02-15 20:10:44 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
I thought that the main problem with prospective building of a fixed
link between Britain and Ireland was the fact that the earth between the
two islands is mainly sand.
Dudbridge Donkey
2021-02-16 10:48:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Having had another of his mad bridge ideas rebuffed, Boris is now likely to
push for the Strarne Tunnel.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/think-britain-to-belfast-is-a-bridge-too-far-try-tunnelling-across-instead-2kbqs0jxm?shareToken=673b91a1a06f78f84b4e3658667e41f1>
I would rather he pushed for a new Severn Tunnel.

Peter (Stroud, Glos)
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