Disused railways: Monmouth and The Wye Valley

[Pyromancer]

According to the current OS map, both abandoned viaducts at Monmouth are
still intact, however on the ground it's clear that the eastern one
(with the stone arches) lost it's cross-river span(s) many years ago.
Does anyone have any pictures of what it looked like when complete? From
the state of the stonework it looks to have been disused a very long
time, possibly rather longer than the still extant steel viaduct on the
western side. Also, is this arrangement of viaducts is actually two
sides of a triangle, and if so, is there a disused tunnel under the
town?

<http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=351370&y=212085&z=3&sv=351370,212085&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf>

Further up the Wye, where one of the lines used to curve through a
tunnel between bends in the river, the southern approach bridge is still
intact, but of the northern structure not a trace remains. When did
this line close and what was the justification? As the whole area now
swarms with outdoor tourists, it seems a shame it's all gone.

Back at Monmouth, the surviving steel viaduct appears to be part of a
heavily used unofficial footpath, and carries some very new looking
service pipes on either side, though it could do with a repaint. Does
anyone know what the long term plans for this viaduct are?

(Pics to follow in next few days)

[b***@chelters.me.uk]

Lots of stuff on the web about this ex line, which has always
facinated me.

Try these
http://www.urban75.org/photos/wales/wye.html
A brilliant site with some great (if small) old pictures, be sure to
work your way through all the links :-)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nigel.nicholson/gn/page%2032.htm

[a***@ntlworld.com]

Post by Pyromancer
According to the current OS map, both abandoned viaducts at Monmouth are
still intact, however on the ground it's clear that the eastern one
(with the stone arches) lost it's cross-river span(s) many years ago.
Does anyone have any pictures of what it looked like when complete? From
the state of the stonework it looks to have been disused a very long
time, possibly rather longer than the still extant steel viaduct on the
western side. Also, is this arrangement of viaducts is actually two
sides of a triangle, and if so, is there a disused tunnel under the
town?

No, there was never a triangle here.

Post by Pyromancer
<http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=351370&y=212085&z=3&sv=351370...>
Further up the Wye, where one of the lines used to curve through a
tunnel between bends in the river, the southern approach bridge is still
intact, but of the northern structure not a trace remains. When did
this line close and what was the justification? As the whole area now
swarms with outdoor tourists, it seems a shame it's all gone.

The line westwards from Monmouth to Pontypool Road closed in 1955. The
remaining lines closed to passengers in 1959. The section from
Monmouth (May Hill - the station nearest the town) to Lydbrook
Junction (about half way between Monmouth and Ross) also closed to all
traffic at the same time leaving Chepstow-Monmouth and Ross-Lydbrook
as freight only lines until 1964 and 1965 respectively. A short stub
from Chepstow to "Tintern Quarry" (actually a couple of miles short of
Tintern) remained until 1986.

Here is what it said in the Jan 1959 Trains Illustrated.

"..consent of the local TUCC (Transport Users' Consultatice
Committee)...to the proposed withdrawal of services...has been
accompanied by a recommendation that track and other fixed
installations should be left in situ for three years to facilitate the
restoration of services should this become an economical proposition
as diesel traction is developed; for the present the TUCC accepts the
BTC's contention that the withdrawal of the existing passenger
services will achieve a net saving of £23,000. A significant
disclosure at the TUCC inquiry... was that the Red and White Service
buses, although carrying 300,000 passengers annually in the Wye
Valley, were themselves losing £1,500 a year - a pointer to the
current decline in demand for public transport, and to the
impracticability of trying to sustain competing services in many rural
areas. Nevertheless we hear from Mr. T.Clay that some Ross businessmen
are making enquiries as to the possibility of purchasing the Ross-
Monmouth line and suitable rolling stock to run upon it ...and of
enlisting the aid of railway enthusiasts to finance and operate the
branch."

I think the Wye Valley lines had a particular disadvantage in that
Monmouth Troy, the junction and main station for Monmouth was some way
outside the town, and Tintern station was also some way from the
village. But it would indeed have made a perfect tourist railway

There were a couple of associated branches that closed early - a line
from Monmouth to Coleford that shut in 1916 and the Tintern Railway,
which was little more than a long siding intended to serve the
wireworks at Tintern village. It crossed the Wye on an impressive
bridge which still exists today. It was financial flop from the start;
it wouldn't have helped that a clause in its Act of Parliament
stipulated that "no charge was to be made for goods to and from the
Wireworks, in respect of the branch, by the Company" - but in any case
the wireworks closed while the railway was under construction. The
line survived with horse operation until deterioration of the track
forced closure in 1935.

( info from The Wye Valley Railway & Coleford Branch by Handley &
Dingwall, Oakwood Press)

Andy

[BH Williams]

Post by Pyromancer
According to the current OS map, both abandoned viaducts at Monmouth are
still intact, however on the ground it's clear that the eastern one
(with the stone arches) lost it's cross-river span(s) many years ago.
Does anyone have any pictures of what it looked like when complete? From
the state of the stonework it looks to have been disused a very long
time, possibly rather longer than the still extant steel viaduct on the
western side. Also, is this arrangement of viaducts is actually two
sides of a triangle, and if so, is there a disused tunnel under the
town?

No, there was never a triangle here.

Post by Pyromancer
<http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=351370&y=212085&z=3&sv=351370...>
Further up the Wye, where one of the lines used to curve through a
tunnel between bends in the river, the southern approach bridge is still
intact, but of the northern structure not a trace remains. When did
this line close and what was the justification? As the whole area now
swarms with outdoor tourists, it seems a shame it's all gone.

The line westwards from Monmouth to Pontypool Road closed in 1955. The
remaining lines closed to passengers in 1959. The section from
Monmouth (May Hill - the station nearest the town) to Lydbrook
Junction (about half way between Monmouth and Ross) also closed to all
traffic at the same time leaving Chepstow-Monmouth and Ross-Lydbrook
as freight only lines until 1964 and 1965 respectively. A short stub
from Chepstow to "Tintern Quarry" (actually a couple of miles short of
Tintern) remained until 1986.

Here is what it said in the Jan 1959 Trains Illustrated.

"..consent of the local TUCC (Transport Users' Consultatice
Committee)...to the proposed withdrawal of services...has been
accompanied by a recommendation that track and other fixed
installations should be left in situ for three years to facilitate the
restoration of services should this become an economical proposition
as diesel traction is developed; for the present the TUCC accepts the
BTC's contention that the withdrawal of the existing passenger
services will achieve a net saving of £23,000. A significant
disclosure at the TUCC inquiry... was that the Red and White Service
buses, although carrying 300,000 passengers annually in the Wye
Valley, were themselves losing £1,500 a year - a pointer to the
current decline in demand for public transport, and to the
impracticability of trying to sustain competing services in many rural
areas. Nevertheless we hear from Mr. T.Clay that some Ross businessmen
are making enquiries as to the possibility of purchasing the Ross-
Monmouth line and suitable rolling stock to run upon it ...and of
enlisting the aid of railway enthusiasts to finance and operate the
branch."

I think the Wye Valley lines had a particular disadvantage in that
Monmouth Troy, the junction and main station for Monmouth was some way
outside the town, and Tintern station was also some way from the
village. But it would indeed have made a perfect tourist railway

There were a couple of associated branches that closed early - a line
from Monmouth to Coleford that shut in 1916 and the Tintern Railway,
which was little more than a long siding intended to serve the
wireworks at Tintern village. It crossed the Wye on an impressive
bridge which still exists today. It was financial flop from the start;
it wouldn't have helped that a clause in its Act of Parliament
stipulated that "no charge was to be made for goods to and from the
Wireworks, in respect of the branch, by the Company" - but in any case
the wireworks closed while the railway was under construction. The
line survived with horse operation until deterioration of the track
forced closure in 1935.

( info from The Wye Valley Railway & Coleford Branch by Handley &
Dingwall, Oakwood Press)

Andy
I believe that a part of the Monmouth to Pontypool Road line remained until
relatively recently to serve an MoD depot at Glascoed. As one drives along
the dual carriageway from Newport towards Monmouth, and approach Monmouth,
there are remains of a station building on the LHS of the road- I believe
some of this line may have been incorporated into the route of the road.
Brian

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 8 May 2007 11:48:38 +0100 someone who may be "BH Williams"

Post by BH Williams
As one drives along
the dual carriageway from Newport towards Monmouth, and approach Monmouth,
there are remains of a station building on the LHS of the road- I believe
some of this line may have been incorporated into the route of the road.

One of the current road tunnels is the former railway tunnel [1].
The other road tunnel was built alongside the former railway tunnel.
The road uses the former railway alignment for some distance, but
the road is rather wider then the railway was.

[1] I don't believe it was modified much, other than putting
cladding over the brickwork. Like the tunnels in Newport these
tunnels are unpleasant features of roads in the area.

[Mark Annand]

One of the current road tunnels is the former railway tunnel.

Actually, no. The road leaves the railways alignment some way west from
the present road tunnels and the rail tunnel itself survives parallel to
and at some distance from the later road.

There's allegedly another part-built rail tunnel close at hand of which
remains are or were to be seen, part of an uncompleted line, but where
this is to be found is another matter ...

Mark

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 08 May 2007 18:45:24 +0100 someone who may be Mark Annand

Post by Mark Annand

One of the current road tunnels is the former railway tunnel.

Actually, no. The road leaves the railways alignment some way west from
the present road tunnels and the rail tunnel itself survives parallel to
and at some distance from the later road.

I was misinformed. Thanks for putting me right.

[Mark Annand]

Post by David Hansen
On Tue, 08 May 2007 18:45:24 +0100 someone who may be Mark Annand

Post by Mark Annand

One of the current road tunnels is the former railway tunnel.

Actually, no. The road leaves the railways alignment some way west from
the present road tunnels and the rail tunnel itself survives parallel to
and at some distance from the later road.

I was misinformed. Thanks for putting me right.

No problemo - please feel free to return the favour in due course. :-)

Perhaps the road swallowed the relics of the uncompleted tunnel (that
was on a line that was nothing to do with the Pontypool to Coleford
route) - though perhaps not as weren't the remains of *that* meant to be
visible from Monmouth Troy's station approach road ...

And the other town not so distant that I think I read somewhere had
traces of railway construction for an unfinished line was Newent. Still
not found that one either ...

[David Jackson]

Post by Mark Annand
And the other town not so distant that I think I read somewhere had
traces of railway construction for an unfinished line was Newent. Still
not found that one either ...

The "remains" are marked on the OS map. A road overbridge a half-mile
WSW of Oxenhall church is a clue - not to be mistaken for the remains of
the old canal which is east of the church. Try www,streetmap.co.uk. The
line of the track can be followed on the map up to and beyond the M50.
I've not had the chance to see what's on the ground in the area - wife
and family felt that the Bird of Prey Centre was a bigger attraction.
Can't think why. On the times I've managed to escape, the railways of
the Forest have had a higher priority.

[Mark Annand]

Post by David Jackson

Post by Mark Annand
And the other town not so distant that I think I read somewhere had
traces of railway construction for an unfinished line was Newent. Still
not found that one either ...

The "remains" are marked on the OS map. A road overbridge a half-mile
WSW of Oxenhall church is a clue - not to be mistaken for the remains of
the old canal which is east of the church. Try www,streetmap.co.uk. The
line of the track can be followed on the map up to and beyond the M50.
I've not had the chance to see what's on the ground in the area - wife
and family felt that the Bird of Prey Centre was a bigger attraction.
Can't think why. On the times I've managed to escape, the railways of
the Forest have had a higher priority.

Ah, that sounds like the Gloucester to Ledbury line though - the one I
have in mind is a fragmentary earthwork from an uncompleted route.

That stretch of the Gloucester to Ledbury line features a filled
cutting, a buried red brick rail overbridge, and a very sootless bridge
carrying the motorway above both the railway trackbed and a footpath.
It's amazing to think that the new road existed in the same time frame
as the railway, though even then the times when this route hosted
through excursion services from as far away as London, for the local
daffodil crop, was long past.

In the mid nineties the line north of Newent was briefly accompanied by
a line of pegs marking the intended route of ... was it the A40
extension from Gloucester to the M50 ... the setting of the church had a
rather narrow escape but the road construction was cancelled just before
work began - something that seems to happen often round Newent ...

[Terry Harper]

On Thu, 10 May 2007 19:08:15 +0100, Mark Annand

Post by Mark Annand

Post by David Jackson

Post by Mark Annand
And the other town not so distant that I think I read somewhere had
traces of railway construction for an unfinished line was Newent. Still
not found that one either ...

The "remains" are marked on the OS map. A road overbridge a half-mile
WSW of Oxenhall church is a clue - not to be mistaken for the remains of
the old canal which is east of the church. Try www,streetmap.co.uk. The
line of the track can be followed on the map up to and beyond the M50.
I've not had the chance to see what's on the ground in the area - wife
and family felt that the Bird of Prey Centre was a bigger attraction.
Can't think why. On the times I've managed to escape, the railways of
the Forest have had a higher priority.

Ah, that sounds like the Gloucester to Ledbury line though - the one I
have in mind is a fragmentary earthwork from an uncompleted route.

The 1953 one-inch OS map 143 shows an "old tunnel" and some earthworks
on the north sided of the Newent-Ledbury line. It looks like there
could have been connections from both directions to a new line,
heading just west of north to the tunnel, which was almost on a
straight line from Oxenhall to Dymock. Was this the line of the canal?
Was the tunnel a canal tunnel?

[David Jackson]

Post by Terry Harper

Post by Mark Annand
Ah, that sounds like the Gloucester to Ledbury line though - the one I
have in mind is a fragmentary earthwork from an uncompleted route.

The 1953 one-inch OS map 143 shows an "old tunnel" and some earthworks
on the north sided of the Newent-Ledbury line. It looks like there
could have been connections from both directions to a new line,
heading just west of north to the tunnel, which was almost on a
straight line from Oxenhall to Dymock. Was this the line of the canal?
Was the tunnel a canal tunnel?

I'd forgotten about the Gloucester to Ledbury line. I seem to remember
reading that there was an attempt made to convert the canal into a
railway line, connected to the G & L, but I can't find the reference to
it now. Perhaps I'm thinking of somewhere else...

[Mark Annand]

Post by David Jackson

Post by Terry Harper

Post by Mark Annand
Ah, that sounds like the Gloucester to Ledbury line though - the one I
have in mind is a fragmentary earthwork from an uncompleted route.

The 1953 one-inch OS map 143 shows an "old tunnel" and some earthworks
on the north sided of the Newent-Ledbury line. It looks like there
could have been connections from both directions to a new line,
heading just west of north to the tunnel, which was almost on a
straight line from Oxenhall to Dymock. Was this the line of the canal?
Was the tunnel a canal tunnel?

I'd forgotten about the Gloucester to Ledbury line. I seem to remember
reading that there was an attempt made to convert the canal into a
railway line, connected to the G & L, but I can't find the reference to
it now. Perhaps I'm thinking of somewhere else...

Terry Harper's map's 'Old tunnel' sounds like Oxenhall tunnel on the
canal route between Gloucester and Hereford - the canal closed in the
1880s for the Gloucester to Ledbury railway to be built on its land.

The railway engineers were able to climb over the rise north of Newent -
the canal engineers solution had been a flight of four locks and a long
tunnel - the remains of the canal between Oxenhall and Dymock, not
absorbed by the railway, have survived to the present day.

[Peter Abraham]

On Wed, 09 May 2007 21:53:34 +0100, Mark Annand

Post by Mark Annand

Post by David Hansen
On Tue, 08 May 2007 18:45:24 +0100 someone who may be Mark Annand

Post by Mark Annand

One of the current road tunnels is the former railway tunnel.

Actually, no. The road leaves the railways alignment some way west from
the present road tunnels and the rail tunnel itself survives parallel to
and at some distance from the later road.

I was misinformed. Thanks for putting me right.

No problemo - please feel free to return the favour in due course. :-)
Perhaps the road swallowed the relics of the uncompleted tunnel (that
was on a line that was nothing to do with the Pontypool to Coleford
route) - though perhaps not as weren't the remains of *that* meant to be
visible from Monmouth Troy's station approach road ...
And the other town not so distant that I think I read somewhere had
traces of railway construction for an unfinished line was Newent. Still
not found that one either ...

Newent had a regular railway from Gloucester to Ledbury , what do you
think that the other unfinished works might have been. In that area i
can think of only the aborted Cinderford - northwards line and the
never finished GW line from Blakeney.

[Mark Annand]

Post by Peter Abraham
On Wed, 09 May 2007 21:53:34 +0100, Mark Annand

Post by Mark Annand
And the other town not so distant that I think I read somewhere had
traces of railway construction for an unfinished line was Newent. Still
not found that one either ...

Newent had a regular railway from Gloucester to Ledbury , what do you
think that the other unfinished works might have been. In that area i
can think of only the aborted Cinderford - northwards line and the
never finished GW line from Blakeney.

I seem to recall that it was an unbuilt long distance line of some sort
on which one of the few places where work started was near Newent - but
whether the destinations were Hereford and London, or South Wales and
London or the Midlands it's rather difficult to draw one of those on a
map and have it pass near Newent in the first place - and not easy
country to go looking for a relic for that matter. And why start near
Newent ... and it's ages since I read about this ...

[M. J. Powell]

In message <f1pki6$j8s$1$***@news.demon.co.uk>, BH Williams
<***@letra.co.uk> writes
Snip

Post by BH Williams
I believe that a part of the Monmouth to Pontypool Road line remained until
relatively recently to serve an MoD depot at Glascoed. As one drives along
the dual carriageway from Newport towards Monmouth, and approach Monmouth,
there are remains of a station building on the LHS of the road- I believe
some of this line may have been incorporated into the route of the road.

This would be at Llandenny. A place to which I travelled frequently from
Pontypool Road on the GWR Railcar. The station signal box was a chicken
shed the last time I visited.

As a child I spent many hours talking to the signalman there between
trains. He let me operate the level-crossing gates often. IIRC there was
a cattle loading bay also.

Mike

[Terry Harper]

Post by a***@ntlworld.com
I think the Wye Valley lines had a particular disadvantage in that
Monmouth Troy, the junction and main station for Monmouth was some way
outside the town, and Tintern station was also some way from the
village. But it would indeed have made a perfect tourist railway

Back in the 1940s, the train from Pontypool Road continued to Monmouth
May Hill, so that the school children had a shorter walk. The girls
still had a long uphill drag to the High School, but that had been so
since time immemorial, the crocodiles being a familiar sight. My
Mother was one of those, having travelled from Symonds Yat on the
train.

Likewise a late afternoon train did the same, IIRC. The arrival of
three trains at Troy, plus a goods train lurking in the sidings,
always made the station look busy around 09:00 and 16:00. When the
Coleford Branch was in operation it must have been even more so. I
knew a number of people who had travelled to school in Monmouth on the
Coleford Branch before it closed. It would have been quicker than the
bus I took, although the bus did drop us on the doorstep of Country
House in Wyebridge Street.

I assume that the shuttle to May Hill waited for the other trains to
arrive.