Y shaped journeys

[Richard C]

I understand that there is an arrangement the return portion of
tickets (from stations south of Long Preston) to stations on the
Settle & Carlisle line can be from the equivalent station on the
Morcambe line. Station pairs are Settle/Giggleswick, Horton/Clapham,
Ribblehead/Bentham. Useful for walkers and seem very sensible. Are
there any other places where this sort of arrangement is in place?

[Andy Kirkham]

Post by Richard C
I understand that there is an arrangement the return portion of
tickets (from stations south of Long Preston) to stations on the
Settle & Carlisle line can be from the equivalent station on the
Morcambe line. Station pairs are Settle/Giggleswick, Horton/Clapham,
Ribblehead/Bentham. Useful for walkers and seem very sensible. Are
there any other places where this sort of arrangement is in place?

This is rather a trivial example but when I buy a ticket from my local
station (Hyndland) to the city centre, it can be used to and from
either Glasgow Central or Queen Street. I quite often travel to one,
conduct my business in various shops that lie between them, and return
from the other one.

Andy Kirkham

[1577+2260]

Post by Richard C
Useful for walkers and seem very sensible. Are
there any other places where this sort of arrangement is in place?

I believe there is (or has been) similar arrangement for walkers on
the Henley and Marlow branches, allowing people to walk along the
river between the two.

[Mark Annand]

Post by 1577+2260

Post by Richard C
Useful for walkers and seem very sensible. Are
there any other places where this sort of arrangement is in place?

I believe there is (or has been) similar arrangement for walkers on
the Henley and Marlow branches, allowing people to walk along the
river between the two.

Perhaps these are a relic of the rail + Salters steamer arrangements ...

[Paul Weaver]

Post by 1577+2260

Post by Richard C
Useful for walkers and seem very sensible. Are
there any other places where this sort of arrangement is in place?

I believe there is (or has been) similar arrangement for walkers on
the Henley and Marlow branches, allowing people to walk along the
river between the two.

Indeed, Windsor too IIRC. I had to remind the gripper when he wueried my
Marlow ticket on a Henley - Twyford train.

It's not advertised though, so I dont see the reason for having it.
--
Everything above is the personal opinion of the author, and nothing to do
with where he works and all that lovely disclaimery stuff.
Posted in his lunch hour too.

[D7666]

Post by 1577+2260
the Henley and Marlow branches, allowing people to walk along the
river between the two.

Really ?


Walking between two station is something I do a fair bit of in the
summer but have always kept to line of route or between two through
routes that are ''any reasonable route'' alternatives.


What ticket does one have to ask for to do Henley < > Marlow ? A simple
day return to one and use the return half back from the other ?

*From* which stations can you do this ? It surely cannot be any station
e.g. coming out of London BZ6 I would assume you have to have a BZ6 to
Henley rather than a BZ6 to Marlow ? And is this published anywhere (in
case of a riot with a jobsworth).


--
Nick

[1577+2260]

Post by D7666
What ticket does one have to ask for to do Henley < > Marlow ? A simple
day return to one and use the return half back from the other ?
*From* which stations can you do this ? It surely cannot be any station
e.g. coming out of London BZ6 I would assume you have to have a BZ6 to
Henley rather than a BZ6 to Marlow ? And is this published anywhere (in
case of a riot with a jobsworth).

ISTR reading about it somewhere obscure and checking it in the
(equally obscure!) online fare manual, so that's probably the best
place to look. IIRC you're supposed to buy a return to whichever of
Henley and Marlow is furthest from the journey's origin.

[Duncan]

Post by D7666
*From* which stations can you do this ? It surely cannot be any station
e.g. coming out of London BZ6 I would assume you have to have a BZ6 to
Henley rather than a BZ6 to Marlow ? And is this published anywhere (in
case of a riot with a jobsworth).

Details are contained within the fare manuals:
http://www.atoc.org/traveltrade/manuals/nfm/londonm.pdf

The ticket has to be to the furthest station. Since there is no
mention of which stations it is valid from, I assume it is valid for
all tickets.

Duncan.

[D7666]

Duncan wrote:


Thanks, to quote, :


'Thames Path' easement of CDR route validity:
Twyford - Henley-on-Thames
Maidenhead - Marlow
Slough - Windsor & E. Central
CDR tickets issued to stations on the above First Great Western Link
branch lines are valid to return from stations on the other branches,
provided that the ticket is issued to the furthest point. This is to
enable customers to walk the Thames Path. This easement is therefore
sometimes referred to as the 'Thames Path Ticket'


Maybe I shall have to do one some time.

--
Nick

[Peter Masson]

Post by D7666
Twyford - Henley-on-Thames
Maidenhead - Marlow
Slough - Windsor & E. Central
CDR tickets issued to stations on the above First Great Western Link
branch lines are valid to return from stations on the other branches,
provided that the ticket is issued to the furthest point. This is to
enable customers to walk the Thames Path. This easement is therefore
sometimes referred to as the 'Thames Path Ticket'

There certainly used to be a leaflet which promoted this. The implication
was that, e.g from London, you could also get a CDR to Reading and return
from Henley, or to Maidenhead and return from Windsor.

Peter

[Andy Kirkham]

Post by Richard C
I understand that there is an arrangement the return portion of
tickets (from stations south of Long Preston) to stations on the
Settle & Carlisle line can be from the equivalent station on the
Morcambe line. Station pairs are Settle/Giggleswick, Horton/Clapham,
Ribblehead/Bentham. Useful for walkers and seem very sensible. Are
there any other places where this sort of arrangement is in place?

This is rather a trivial example but when I buy a ticket from my local
station (Hyndland) to the city centre, it can be used to and from
either Glasgow Central or Queen Street. I quite often travel to one,
conduct my business in various shops that lie between them, and return
from the other one.

Andy Kirkham

[Nick Leverton]

Post by Richard C
I understand that there is an arrangement the return portion of
tickets (from stations south of Long Preston) to stations on the
Settle & Carlisle line can be from the equivalent station on the
Morcambe line. Station pairs are Settle/Giggleswick, Horton/Clapham,
Ribblehead/Bentham. Useful for walkers and seem very sensible. Are
there any other places where this sort of arrangement is in place?

It used to be so for Nottingham and Derby - very useful for anyone who
lives inbetween them. Whether that survived privatisation, I don't know.

Nick

[Roland Perry]

Post by Nick Leverton

Post by Richard C
I understand that there is an arrangement the return portion of
tickets (from stations south of Long Preston) to stations on the
Settle & Carlisle line can be from the equivalent station on the
Morcambe line. Station pairs are Settle/Giggleswick, Horton/Clapham,
Ribblehead/Bentham. Useful for walkers and seem very sensible. Are
there any other places where this sort of arrangement is in place?

It used to be so for Nottingham and Derby - very useful for anyone who
lives inbetween them. Whether that survived privatisation, I don't know.

I believe there's a Huntingdon-or-Cambridge to London season ticket
available; but not a day ticket. A Peterborough to London ticket is
valid via either Cambridge or Huntingdon, but will be more expensive
(but probably not more than a pair of singles).

[Pete Fenelon]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Rich Mackin]

Post by Pete Fenelon

Post by Richard C
I understand that there is an arrangement the return portion of
tickets (from stations south of Long Preston) to stations on the
Settle & Carlisle line can be from the equivalent station on the
Morcambe line. Station pairs are Settle/Giggleswick, Horton/Clapham,
Ribblehead/Bentham. Useful for walkers and seem very sensible. Are
there any other places where this sort of arrangement is in place?

Trivially, would York or Leeds to "Manchester Stns" count? - either
go to Picc via Huddersfield with TPX or Vic via Bradford with Northern.

It would - I've gone to Man Vic before from Leeds, returning from Picc.

[Pete Fenelon]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Mark Morton]

Post by Pete Fenelon

Post by Richard C
I understand that there is an arrangement the return portion of
tickets (from stations south of Long Preston) to stations on the
Settle & Carlisle line can be from the equivalent station on the
Morcambe line. Station pairs are Settle/Giggleswick, Horton/Clapham,
Ribblehead/Bentham. Useful for walkers and seem very sensible. Are
there any other places where this sort of arrangement is in place?

Trivially, would York or Leeds to "Manchester Stns" count? - either
go to Picc via Huddersfield with TPX or Vic via Bradford with Northern.

Although Leeds-Manchester by the two routes would be a V shaped journey
rather than a Y!

[Rich Mackin]

Post by Mark Morton

Post by Pete Fenelon

Post by Richard C
I understand that there is an arrangement the return portion of
tickets (from stations south of Long Preston) to stations on the
Settle & Carlisle line can be from the equivalent station on the
Morcambe line. Station pairs are Settle/Giggleswick, Horton/Clapham,
Ribblehead/Bentham. Useful for walkers and seem very sensible. Are
there any other places where this sort of arrangement is in place?

Trivially, would York or Leeds to "Manchester Stns" count? - either
go to Picc via Huddersfield with TPX or Vic via Bradford with Northern.

Although Leeds-Manchester by the two routes would be a V shaped journey
rather than a Y!

More Y-shaped as they take the same route as far as Huddersfield before
diverging.

[Mike Roebuck]

Post by Rich Mackin

Post by Mark Morton

Post by Pete Fenelon

Post by Richard C
I understand that there is an arrangement the return portion of
tickets (from stations south of Long Preston) to stations on the
Settle & Carlisle line can be from the equivalent station on the
Morcambe line. Station pairs are Settle/Giggleswick,

Horton/Clapham,

Post by Rich Mackin

Post by Mark Morton

Post by Pete Fenelon

Post by Richard C
Ribblehead/Bentham. Useful for walkers and seem very sensible. Are
there any other places where this sort of arrangement is in place?

Trivially, would York or Leeds to "Manchester Stns" count? - either
go to Picc via Huddersfield with TPX or Vic via Bradford with Northern.

Although Leeds-Manchester by the two routes would be a V shaped journey
rather than a Y!

More Y-shaped as they take the same route as far as Huddersfield before
diverging.

Sorry, but they don't. The two routes separate at Leeds, Standedge
trains going via Huddersfield, and Calder Valley trains via Bradford
and Halifax.

[Rich Mackin]

Post by Richard C

Post by Rich Mackin

Post by Mark Morton

Post by Pete Fenelon

Post by Richard C
I understand that there is an arrangement the return portion of
tickets (from stations south of Long Preston) to stations on the
Settle & Carlisle line can be from the equivalent station on the
Morcambe line. Station pairs are Settle/Giggleswick,

Horton/Clapham,

Post by Rich Mackin

Post by Mark Morton

Post by Pete Fenelon

Post by Richard C
Ribblehead/Bentham. Useful for walkers and seem very sensible. Are
there any other places where this sort of arrangement is in place?

Trivially, would York or Leeds to "Manchester Stns" count? -

either

Post by Rich Mackin

Post by Mark Morton

Post by Pete Fenelon
go to Picc via Huddersfield with TPX or Vic via Bradford with

Northern.

Post by Rich Mackin

Post by Mark Morton
Although Leeds-Manchester by the two routes would be a V shaped

journey

Post by Rich Mackin

Post by Mark Morton
rather than a Y!

More Y-shaped as they take the same route as far as Huddersfield

before

Post by Rich Mackin
diverging.

Sorry, but they don't. The two routes separate at Leeds, Standedge
trains going via Huddersfield, and Calder Valley trains via Bradford
and Halifax.

Oops you're right - the last time I did Leeds-Man Vic was on a diversion
(driver's lack of route knowledge!), and the train went as far as
Huddersfield before reversing!

[Duncan]

Post by Richard C
I understand that there is an arrangement the return portion of
tickets (from stations south of Long Preston) to stations on the
Settle & Carlisle line can be from the equivalent station on the
Morcambe line. Station pairs are Settle/Giggleswick, Horton/Clapham,
Ribblehead/Bentham. Useful for walkers and seem very sensible. Are
there any other places where this sort of arrangement is in place?

Although in the fare manuals it only listed Giggleswick and Settle as
interchangeable.

The fare manual also lists an easement for the Thames Path so that
holders can return from other stations provided the ticket covers the
furthest point on the Henley, Marlow and Windsor branches.

There are also a number of dual availability season tickets which
allow travel from interchangeably from a pair of stations, e.g.
Newbury or Didcot Parkway to London.

Duncan

[Dave Watts]

Often a clue is given that this possible by the word "stations" on the
ticket. There used to be lots in B.R. days, when the giveway was "B.R."
after the place name.

So there was Dorking B.R. which meant that the ticket could be used to
Dorking Deepdene or Dorking Town (later renamed Dorking West); Reading B.R.
that was valid to Reading or Reading West; Glasgow B.R.; Birmingham B.R.
etc.

Don't know how many survived John Major's government but if you buy a ticket
to London from stations around here (Didcot) you get "London Stations" on it
which means it is valid to Paddington or Waterloo. Presumably there must at
the very least be something similar from stations south of the Thames
to/from Victoria/London Bridge/Charing Cross etc. Although here it may be
further complicated by TOC-specific tickets brought in because of the
Gatwick Express price differential (more expensive than Thameslink or
Southern).

Dave Watts.

Post by Duncan

Post by Richard C
I understand that there is an arrangement the return portion of
tickets (from stations south of Long Preston) to stations on the
Settle & Carlisle line can be from the equivalent station on the
Morcambe line. Station pairs are Settle/Giggleswick, Horton/Clapham,
Ribblehead/Bentham. Useful for walkers and seem very sensible. Are
there any other places where this sort of arrangement is in place?

Although in the fare manuals it only listed Giggleswick and Settle as
interchangeable.
The fare manual also lists an easement for the Thames Path so that
holders can return from other stations provided the ticket covers the
furthest point on the Henley, Marlow and Windsor branches.
There are also a number of dual availability season tickets which
allow travel from interchangeably from a pair of stations, e.g.
Newbury or Didcot Parkway to London.
Duncan

[Terry Harper]

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 07:55:41 +0100, "Dave Watts"

Post by Dave Watts
Don't know how many survived John Major's government but if you buy a ticket
to London from stations around here (Didcot) you get "London Stations" on it
which means it is valid to Paddington or Waterloo. Presumably there must at
the very least be something similar from stations south of the Thames
to/from Victoria/London Bridge/Charing Cross etc. Although here it may be
further complicated by TOC-specific tickets brought in because of the
Gatwick Express price differential (more expensive than Thameslink or
Southern).

I am not sure what CDRs say these days, because I usually buy a
travelcard, but they used to say LONDON (SR), which meant Victoria,
London Bridge, Charing Cross, Waterloo, Blackfriars or Cannon Street.

Nowadays you can buy one which is "Not Gatwick Express" or one which
is "Thameslink Only", the latter being available after 10 a.m. and is
20% cheaper. Of course it only affects your journey as far as East
Croydon, and after that you can do as you like with a Travelcard. It
also allows you to go to Farringdon or beyond. If there is one which
allows Gatwick Express, I can't see anyone bothering to change at
Gatwick for a negative time advantage.

[David Biddulph]

Post by Dave Watts
Often a clue is given that this possible by the word "stations" on the
ticket. There used to be lots in B.R. days, when the giveway was "B.R."
after the place name.
So there was Dorking B.R. which meant that the ticket could be used to
Dorking Deepdene or Dorking Town (later renamed Dorking West); Reading B.R.
that was valid to Reading or Reading West; Glasgow B.R.; Birmingham B.R.
etc.
Don't know how many survived John Major's government but if you buy a ticket
to London from stations around here (Didcot) you get "London Stations" on it
which means it is valid to Paddington or Waterloo. Presumably there must at
the very least be something similar from stations south of the Thames
to/from Victoria/London Bridge/Charing Cross etc. ...

They're listed on pages A5 & A6 (plus London Terminals on A4) in
http://www.atoc.org/traveltrade/manuals/nfm/sectiona-part1.pdf

[Duncan]

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 07:55:41 +0100, "Dave Watts"

Post by Dave Watts
Often a clue is given that this possible by the word "stations" on the
ticket. There used to be lots in B.R. days, when the giveway was "B.R."
after the place name.

Since you are top posting it is hard to guess which section this
referred to. However none of the station pairs Settle/Giggleswick,
Horton/Clapham, Ribblehead/Bentham are station groups according to the
FAQ:

http://www.rodge.force9.co.uk/faq/tzones.html

Duncan

[James Christie]

Post by Terry Harper
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 07:55:41 +0100, "Dave Watts"

Post by Dave Watts
Often a clue is given that this possible by the word "stations" on the
ticket. There used to be lots in B.R. days, when the giveway was "B.R."
after the place name.

Since you are top posting it is hard to guess which section this
referred to. However none of the station pairs Settle/Giggleswick,
Horton/Clapham, Ribblehead/Bentham are station groups according to the
http://www.rodge.force9.co.uk/faq/tzones.html
Duncan

Doesn't that list have a few gaps? I'm sure I've had a ticket recently
that said 'Edinburgh Stations' and 'Dumbarton Stations'.

[David Biddulph]

Post by James Christie

Post by Terry Harper
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 07:55:41 +0100, "Dave Watts"

Post by Dave Watts
Often a clue is given that this possible by the word "stations" on the
ticket. There used to be lots in B.R. days, when the giveway was "B.R."
after the place name.

Since you are top posting it is hard to guess which section this
referred to. However none of the station pairs Settle/Giggleswick,
Horton/Clapham, Ribblehead/Bentham are station groups according to the
http://www.rodge.force9.co.uk/faq/tzones.html

Doesn't that list have a few gaps? I'm sure I've had a ticket recently
that said 'Edinburgh Stations' and 'Dumbarton Stations'.

The official list is in
http://www.atoc.org/traveltrade/manuals/nfm/sectiona-part1.pdf, as per my
post yesterday in this thread. Page A4 for London Terminals & A5/A6 for the
others. No 'Edinburgh Stations' or 'Dumbarton Stations'.

[The Fish]

Post by Terry Harper
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 07:55:41 +0100, "Dave Watts"

Post by Dave Watts
Often a clue is given that this possible by the word "stations" on the
ticket. There used to be lots in B.R. days, when the giveway was "B.R."
after the place name.

Indeed.
How about Banbury to London Paddington, via Oxford and Reading, and
returning from Marylebone via High Wycombe. (you only effectively
double back on yourself from Ayhno Junction to Banbury)

Leamington Spa to Birmingham Snow Hill, via Solihull and returning
fron New Street via Coventry (you only effectively double back on
yourself in the Leamington Spa station area)

Birmingham to London. An "any permitted" ticket, which you need to
have in order to travel from New Street to Euston on the West Coast
would also be valid to return from Marylebone to Snow Hill (you dont
go over any of the route you used for your outward journey)


Hinckley to London is only supposed to be valid via Nuneaton into
Euston, but id say that probably 80% of people with this ticket travel
via Leicester into St Pancras.

I belive the same happens with Oakham - London (ie, via Peterborough
into Kings Cross, or via Leicester into St Pancras, people generally
travel into Kings Cross, but if the trains are going wrong on any
given day, they have a diversionary route which they can always use
without being hassled buy guards)

Ill bet there are lots of examples for journeys into one London
Terminal and out of another.
Glasgow or Edinburgh to London via East Coast/West Coast for example.

[Clive D. W. Feather]

Post by The Fish
How about Banbury to London Paddington, via Oxford and Reading, and
returning from Marylebone via High Wycombe. (you only effectively
double back on yourself from Ayhno Junction to Banbury)
Leamington Spa to Birmingham Snow Hill, via Solihull and returning
fron New Street via Coventry (you only effectively double back on
yourself in the Leamington Spa station area)
Birmingham to London. An "any permitted" ticket, which you need to
have in order to travel from New Street to Euston on the West Coast
would also be valid to return from Marylebone to Snow Hill (you dont
go over any of the route you used for your outward journey)

Note that, in Routeing Guide terms, doubling back only matters if you
pass through the same *station* twice; junctions aren't relevant. And
outward and return journeys are independent of each other; you route
them as two separate single journeys.

Post by The Fish
Hinckley to London is only supposed to be valid via Nuneaton into
Euston,

Huh? Routeing Points for Hinckley are Nuneaton *and* Leicester. So
provided that the Fares Rule permits, you can travel to St.Pancras.

Post by The Fish
I belive the same happens with Oakham - London

Oakham is a Routeing Point, and the valid routes are both ER (to King's
Cross or Liverpool Street) and MM (to St.Pancras).

Post by The Fish
Ill bet there are lots of examples for journeys into one London
Terminal and out of another.

Hundreds of them. Many maps have two termini on them.

[Stevie D]

Post by Clive D. W. Feather
Huh? Routeing Points for Hinckley are Nuneaton *and* Leicester. So
provided that the Fares Rule permits, you can travel to St.Pancras.

This is complicated...

Fares to Euston: SVR SOR
Hinckley £37.10 £95.00
Leicester £38.50 £76.00
Nuneaton £32.30 £87.00

So on a Standard Open from Hinckley, you can travel via Leicester to
St Pancras, but on a Saver, you can only travel via Nuneaton to
Euston.

The first Saver arrival into San Pan is at 1047; the first into Euston
is 1148 - over an hour later! With restrictions like that, no wonder
Virgin's Saver prices are -proportionally- much less than anyone
else's, because they're no damn use to anyone who wants to arrive
before lunchtime.

[Neil Williams]

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:13:15 +0100, Stevie D

Post by Stevie D
The first Saver arrival into San Pan is at 1047; the first into Euston
is 1148 - over an hour later! With restrictions like that, no wonder
Virgin's Saver prices are -proportionally- much less than anyone
else's, because they're no damn use to anyone who wants to arrive
before lunchtime.

I believe this was intentional - when VT abolished the SSR, the SVR
fare was reduced to roughly the average of the two, but the
restrictions were also increased by a similar margin.

This is *very* good for Railcard holders who get a very good value
fully-flexible fare, but not really for anyone else.

Neil

[The Fish]

Post by Neil Williams
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:13:15 +0100, Stevie D

Post by Stevie D
The first Saver arrival into San Pan is at 1047; the first into Euston
is 1148 - over an hour later! With restrictions like that, no wonder
Virgin's Saver prices are -proportionally- much less than anyone
else's, because they're no damn use to anyone who wants to arrive
before lunchtime.

I believe this was intentional - when VT abolished the SSR, the SVR
fare was reduced to roughly the average of the two, but the
restrictions were also increased by a similar margin.
This is *very* good for Railcard holders who get a very good value
fully-flexible fare, but not really for anyone else.
Neil

This is what i meant.
Admittedly, its been a few years, but i have worked in the ticket
office at Hinckley Station. People used to buy tickets that strictly
speaking are only valid via Nuneaton into Euston, but they travelled
via Leicester into St Pancras. It happened (and probably still
happens) every single day.
Nothing was ever said.