Discussion:
Ely North and Haughley Junctions: Last pitch to government for rail junction upgrades
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Coffee
2025-02-22 12:50:54 UTC
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo

I remember Haughley Junction being a single lead junction in the early
70s. I presume Ely North Junction was downgraded when the semaphore
signalling was replaced.
Roland Perry
2025-02-23 07:02:35 UTC
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Post by Coffee
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo
I remember Haughley Junction being a single lead junction in the early
70s. I presume Ely North Junction was downgraded when the semaphore
signalling was replaced.
Ely North isn't entirely single-lead, because there's an independent
westbound line towards Peterborough. It's bi-directionally signalled,
but I've never seen a train contra-flowing.

I suspect the single-lead was also inspired by the singling of much of
the onward route to Kings Lynn.
--
Roland Perry
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-02-23 07:42:45 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo
I remember Haughley Junction being a single lead junction in the early
70s. I presume Ely North Junction was downgraded when the semaphore
signalling was replaced.
Ely North isn't entirely single-lead, because there's an independent
westbound line towards Peterborough. It's bi-directionally signalled,
As far as the section north of Ely North Junction
is concerned, only on the western track from
Ely West Junction.
Post by Roland Perry
but I've never seen a train contra-flowing.
Not sure whether 914 and 910 signals
are active and can show 'proceed'.

Should be useful for Peterborough -
Brandon services reversing at Ely
and coming behind a freight train
to Soham which can not yet be taken
into Ely and in parallel with a
train from King's Lynn or Brandon.
Ken
2025-02-23 10:44:55 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo
I remember Haughley Junction being a single lead junction in the early
70s. I presume Ely North Junction was downgraded when the semaphore
signalling was replaced.
Ely North isn't entirely single-lead, because there's an independent
westbound line towards Peterborough. It's bi-directionally signalled,
As far as the section north of Ely North Junction
is concerned, only on the western track from
Ely West Junction.
Post by Roland Perry
but I've never seen a train contra-flowing.
Not sure whether 914 and 910 signals
are active and can show 'proceed'.
I'm sure I've been on a train from Peterborough that used the down
between Ely North and Ely, passing a train going the other way.

These things still can come as a surprise. I was minding my own
business on Wednesday leaving Ely on a down XC train and was initially
surprised when an EMR service started to overtake us on the parallel
track. I shouldn't be surprised as it appears that both trains are
booked to leave Ely within a minute of each other.
Roland Perry
2025-02-23 11:45:55 UTC
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Post by Ken
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo
I remember Haughley Junction being a single lead junction in the early
70s. I presume Ely North Junction was downgraded when the semaphore
signalling was replaced.
Ely North isn't entirely single-lead, because there's an independent
westbound line towards Peterborough. It's bi-directionally signalled,
As far as the section north of Ely North Junction
is concerned, only on the western track from
Ely West Junction.
Post by Roland Perry
but I've never seen a train contra-flowing.
Not sure whether 914 and 910 signals
are active and can show 'proceed'.
I'm sure I've been on a train from Peterborough that used the down
between Ely North and Ely, passing a train going the other way.
Thanks for the report, that's what I've never seen.
Post by Ken
These things still can come as a surprise. I was minding my own
business on Wednesday leaving Ely on a down XC train and was initially
surprised when an EMR service started to overtake us on the parallel
track. I shouldn't be surprised as it appears that both trains are
booked to leave Ely within a minute of each other.
Yes, this is a historical accident because when both services were
operated by the same TOC, they'd use Ely as a place to swap crews when
required. (eg the crew of the Peterborough-bound XC could have brought
in the EMT from Peterborough).

Hence they both had to be platformed at Ely simultaneously.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2025-02-23 11:38:08 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo
I remember Haughley Junction being a single lead junction in the early
70s. I presume Ely North Junction was downgraded when the semaphore
signalling was replaced.
Ely North isn't entirely single-lead, because there's an independent
westbound line towards Peterborough. It's bi-directionally signalled,
As far as the section north of Ely North Junction
is concerned, only on the western track from
Ely West Junction.
That's what I said. If you don't have anything useful to add, please
just SHUT UP.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
but I've never seen a train contra-flowing.
Not sure whether 914 and 910 signals
are active and can show 'proceed'.
I really don't care if you are sure are not. I'm looking at the
signalling diagrams.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Should be useful for Peterborough -
Brandon services reversing at Ely
and coming behind a freight train
to Soham which can not yet be taken
into Ely and in parallel with a
train from King's Lynn or Brandon.
I've often (up to multiple times a day) seen services going north out of
Ely on both tracks side by side.

I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side. Or even on the contraflow track all by
themselves.
--
Roland Perry
Coffee
2025-02-23 15:09:02 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo
I remember Haughley Junction being a single lead junction in the early
70s.  I presume Ely North Junction was downgraded when the semaphore
signalling was replaced.
Ely North isn't entirely single-lead, because there's an independent
westbound line towards Peterborough. It's bi-directionally signalled,
As far as the section north of Ely North Junction
is concerned, only on the western track from
Ely West Junction.
That's what I said. If you don't have anything useful to add, please
just SHUT UP.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
but I've never seen a train contra-flowing.
Not sure whether 914 and 910 signals
are active and can show 'proceed'.
I really don't care if you are sure are not. I'm looking at the
signalling diagrams.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Should be useful for Peterborough -
Brandon services reversing at Ely
and coming behind a freight train
to Soham which can not yet be taken
into Ely and in parallel with a
train from King's Lynn or Brandon.
I've often (up to multiple times a day) seen services going north out of
Ely on both tracks side by side.
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side. Or even on the contraflow track all by
themselves.
Looking at the track diagram both the up and down lines just north of
the station are reversible.

Both the Kings Lynn and Norwich lines are two single lead junctions
connected to another single lead junction and then onto "main line"
leading to Ely. Does that have an "official" name?

To add to the mix this "another" single lead junction leads to the line
from Peterborough. This track diagram might clarify my description.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo
Roland Perry
2025-02-23 16:15:56 UTC
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Post by Coffee
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo
I remember Haughley Junction being a single lead junction in the early
70s.  I presume Ely North Junction was downgraded when the semaphore
signalling was replaced.
Ely North isn't entirely single-lead, because there's an independent
westbound line towards Peterborough. It's bi-directionally signalled,
As far as the section north of Ely North Junction
is concerned, only on the western track from
Ely West Junction.
That's what I said. If you don't have anything useful to add, please
just SHUT UP.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
but I've never seen a train contra-flowing.
Not sure whether 914 and 910 signals
are active and can show 'proceed'.
I really don't care if you are sure are not. I'm looking at the
signalling diagrams.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Should be useful for Peterborough -
Brandon services reversing at Ely
and coming behind a freight train
to Soham which can not yet be taken
into Ely and in parallel with a
train from King's Lynn or Brandon.
I've often (up to multiple times a day) seen services going north
out of Ely on both tracks side by side.
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely
on both tracks side by side. Or even on the contraflow track all by
themselves.
Looking at the track diagram both the up and down lines just north of
the station are reversible.
Yes, I know (see above).
Post by Coffee
Both the Kings Lynn and Norwich lines are two single lead junctions
connected to another single lead junction and then onto "main line"
leading to Ely. Does that have an "official" name?
The Norwich line is the original "Main Line", although today the
Peterborough one looks the part.
Post by Coffee
To add to the mix this "another" single lead junction leads to the line
from Peterborough. This track diagram might clarify my description.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo
--
Roland Perry
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-02-24 08:36:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 11:38:08 +0000, nasty Roland Perry wrote while he
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo
I remember Haughley Junction being a single lead junction in the early
70s. I presume Ely North Junction was downgraded when the semaphore
signalling was replaced.
Ely North isn't entirely single-lead, because there's an independent
westbound line towards Peterborough. It's bi-directionally signalled,
As far as the section north of Ely North Junction
is concerned, only on the western track from
Ely West Junction.
That's what I said.
This current year? Cite or shut up for this week.
Post by Roland Perry
If you don't have anything useful to add, please
just SHUT UP.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
but I've never seen a train contra-flowing.
Not sure whether 914 and 910 signals
are active and can show 'proceed'.
I really don't care if you are sure are not. I'm looking at the
signalling diagrams.
Your problem.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Should be useful for Peterborough -
Brandon services reversing at Ely
and coming behind a freight train
to Soham which can not yet be taken
into Ely and in parallel with a
train from King's Lynn or Brandon.
I've often (up to multiple times a day) seen services going north out of
Ely on both tracks side by side.
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side. Or even on the contraflow track all by
themselves.
Scheduled so from Ely North Jn. to Ely platform 1:
https://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W21751/2025-02-24
Roland Perry
2025-02-24 11:58:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 11:38:08 +0000, nasty Roland Perry wrote while he
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo
I remember Haughley Junction being a single lead junction in the early
70s. I presume Ely North Junction was downgraded when the semaphore
signalling was replaced.
Ely North isn't entirely single-lead, because there's an independent
westbound line towards Peterborough. It's bi-directionally signalled,
As far as the section north of Ely North Junction
is concerned, only on the western track from
Ely West Junction.
That's what I said.
This current year? Cite or shut up for this week.
The track's not been re-laid in living memory!
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
If you don't have anything useful to add, please
just SHUT UP.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
but I've never seen a train contra-flowing.
Not sure whether 914 and 910 signals
are active and can show 'proceed'.
I really don't care if you are sure are not. I'm looking at the
signalling diagrams.
Your problem.
Wrong again, it's my solution.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Should be useful for Peterborough -
Brandon services reversing at Ely
and coming behind a freight train
to Soham which can not yet be taken
into Ely and in parallel with a
train from King's Lynn or Brandon.
I've often (up to multiple times a day) seen services going north out of
Ely on both tracks side by side.
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side. Or even on the contraflow track all by
themselves.
https://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W21751/2025-02-24
Just watched (on screen) 1R70 go bidirectionally (298/290) from Norwich
towards Ely Platform 1. Getting stuck at a red light on the way - not
sure why - conflict with 1T22 perhaps?

Still waiting for anything to go bidirectionally (914/910) from PBO to
Platform 1.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2025-02-24 12:09:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
https://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W21751/2025-02-24
Just watched (on screen) 1R70 go bidirectionally (298/290) from Norwich
towards Ely Platform 1. Getting stuck at a red light on the way - not
sure why - conflict with 1T22 perhaps?
As a result the Liverpool Train is now 15L, and the Kings Lynn train is
also co-incidentally 15L.
Post by Roland Perry
Still waiting for anything to go bidirectionally (914/910) from PBO to
Platform 1.
--
Roland Perry
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-02-24 12:10:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 11:38:08 +0000, nasty Roland Perry wrote while he
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo
I remember Haughley Junction being a single lead junction in the early
70s. I presume Ely North Junction was downgraded when the semaphore
signalling was replaced.
Ely North isn't entirely single-lead, because there's an independent
westbound line towards Peterborough. It's bi-directionally signalled,
As far as the section north of Ely North Junction
is concerned, only on the western track from
Ely West Junction.
That's what I said.
This current year? Cite or shut up for this week.
The track's not been re-laid in living memory!
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
If you don't have anything useful to add, please
just SHUT UP.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
but I've never seen a train contra-flowing.
Not sure whether 914 and 910 signals
are active and can show 'proceed'.
I really don't care if you are sure are not. I'm looking at the
signalling diagrams.
Your problem.
Wrong again, it's my solution.
What you call solution is mere imagination
made of your conceit.
Post by Roland Perry
Still waiting for anything to go bidirectionally (914/910) from PBO to
Platform 1.
Charles Ellson
2025-02-25 02:08:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 11:38:08 +0000, nasty Roland Perry wrote while he
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo
I remember Haughley Junction being a single lead junction in the early
70s. I presume Ely North Junction was downgraded when the semaphore
signalling was replaced.
Ely North isn't entirely single-lead, because there's an independent
westbound line towards Peterborough. It's bi-directionally signalled,
As far as the section north of Ely North Junction
is concerned, only on the western track from
Ely West Junction.
That's what I said.
This current year? Cite or shut up for this week.
The track's not been re-laid in living memory!
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
If you don't have anything useful to add, please
just SHUT UP.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
but I've never seen a train contra-flowing.
Not sure whether 914 and 910 signals
are active and can show 'proceed'.
I really don't care if you are sure are not. I'm looking at the
signalling diagrams.
Your problem.
Wrong again, it's my solution.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Should be useful for Peterborough -
Brandon services reversing at Ely
and coming behind a freight train
to Soham which can not yet be taken
into Ely and in parallel with a
train from King's Lynn or Brandon.
I've often (up to multiple times a day) seen services going north out of
Ely on both tracks side by side.
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side. Or even on the contraflow track all by
themselves.
https://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W21751/2025-02-24
Just watched (on screen) 1R70 go bidirectionally (298/290) from Norwich
towards Ely Platform 1. Getting stuck at a red light on the way - not
sure why - conflict with 1T22 perhaps?
Still waiting for anything to go bidirectionally (914/910) from PBO to
Platform 1.
.
Maybe like the West London Line where bidirectional working only seems
to kick in when really necessary? (e.g. train stopped on Up platform
at Kensington while a passenger was being resuscitated) Something that
might apply more to one direction than the other.
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-02-25 07:22:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 11:38:08 +0000, nasty Roland Perry wrote while he
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo
I remember Haughley Junction being a single lead junction in the early
70s. I presume Ely North Junction was downgraded when the semaphore
signalling was replaced.
Ely North isn't entirely single-lead, because there's an independent
westbound line towards Peterborough. It's bi-directionally signalled,
As far as the section north of Ely North Junction
is concerned, only on the western track from
Ely West Junction.
That's what I said.
This current year? Cite or shut up for this week.
The track's not been re-laid in living memory!
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
If you don't have anything useful to add, please
just SHUT UP.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
but I've never seen a train contra-flowing.
Not sure whether 914 and 910 signals
are active and can show 'proceed'.
I really don't care if you are sure are not. I'm looking at the
signalling diagrams.
Your problem.
Wrong again, it's my solution.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Should be useful for Peterborough -
Brandon services reversing at Ely
and coming behind a freight train
to Soham which can not yet be taken
into Ely and in parallel with a
train from King's Lynn or Brandon.
I've often (up to multiple times a day) seen services going north out of
Ely on both tracks side by side.
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side. Or even on the contraflow track all by
themselves.
https://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W21751/2025-02-24
Just watched (on screen) 1R70 go bidirectionally (298/290) from Norwich
towards Ely Platform 1. Getting stuck at a red light on the way - not
sure why - conflict with 1T22 perhaps?
Still waiting for anything to go bidirectionally (914/910) from PBO to
Platform 1.
..
Maybe like the West London Line where bidirectional working only seems
to kick in when really necessary? (e.g. train stopped on Up platform
at Kensington while a passenger was being resuscitated)
Some 5L03 waiting at 698 but maybe just using
the bidirectional non-platform station track...
Post by Charles Ellson
Something that
might apply more to one direction than the other.
Some parts of line(s) have got bidirectional signalling
installed only on one track.

Regards, ULF
Roland Perry
2025-02-25 07:34:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 11:38:08 +0000, nasty Roland Perry wrote while he
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo
I remember Haughley Junction being a single lead junction in the early
70s. I presume Ely North Junction was downgraded when the semaphore
signalling was replaced.
Ely North isn't entirely single-lead, because there's an independent
westbound line towards Peterborough. It's bi-directionally signalled,
As far as the section north of Ely North Junction
is concerned, only on the western track from
Ely West Junction.
That's what I said.
This current year? Cite or shut up for this week.
The track's not been re-laid in living memory!
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
If you don't have anything useful to add, please
just SHUT UP.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
but I've never seen a train contra-flowing.
Not sure whether 914 and 910 signals
are active and can show 'proceed'.
I really don't care if you are sure are not. I'm looking at the
signalling diagrams.
Your problem.
Wrong again, it's my solution.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Should be useful for Peterborough -
Brandon services reversing at Ely
and coming behind a freight train
to Soham which can not yet be taken
into Ely and in parallel with a
train from King's Lynn or Brandon.
I've often (up to multiple times a day) seen services going north out of
Ely on both tracks side by side.
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side. Or even on the contraflow track all by
themselves.
https://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W21751/2025-02-24
Just watched (on screen) 1R70 go bidirectionally (298/290) from Norwich
towards Ely Platform 1. Getting stuck at a red light on the way - not
sure why - conflict with 1T22 perhaps?
Still waiting for anything to go bidirectionally (914/910) from PBO to
Platform 1.
.
Maybe like the West London Line where bidirectional working only seems
to kick in when really necessary? (e.g. train stopped on Up platform
at Kensington while a passenger was being resuscitated) Something that
might apply more to one direction than the other.
It's much more likely someone drew lines on the map somewhere near
Chettisham, and half a mile south of Ely Station, and said "We are going
to bi-directionally signal the whole lot, whether or not there's an
immediate operational need". And it would have been simpler, too.
--
Roland Perry
Charles Ellson
2025-02-25 09:03:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 11:38:08 +0000, nasty Roland Perry wrote while he
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo
I remember Haughley Junction being a single lead junction in the early
70s. I presume Ely North Junction was downgraded when the semaphore
signalling was replaced.
Ely North isn't entirely single-lead, because there's an independent
westbound line towards Peterborough. It's bi-directionally signalled,
As far as the section north of Ely North Junction
is concerned, only on the western track from
Ely West Junction.
That's what I said.
This current year? Cite or shut up for this week.
The track's not been re-laid in living memory!
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
If you don't have anything useful to add, please
just SHUT UP.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
but I've never seen a train contra-flowing.
Not sure whether 914 and 910 signals
are active and can show 'proceed'.
I really don't care if you are sure are not. I'm looking at the
signalling diagrams.
Your problem.
Wrong again, it's my solution.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Should be useful for Peterborough -
Brandon services reversing at Ely
and coming behind a freight train
to Soham which can not yet be taken
into Ely and in parallel with a
train from King's Lynn or Brandon.
I've often (up to multiple times a day) seen services going north out of
Ely on both tracks side by side.
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side. Or even on the contraflow track all by
themselves.
https://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W21751/2025-02-24
Just watched (on screen) 1R70 go bidirectionally (298/290) from Norwich
towards Ely Platform 1. Getting stuck at a red light on the way - not
sure why - conflict with 1T22 perhaps?
Still waiting for anything to go bidirectionally (914/910) from PBO to
Platform 1.
.
Maybe like the West London Line where bidirectional working only seems
to kick in when really necessary? (e.g. train stopped on Up platform
at Kensington while a passenger was being resuscitated) Something that
might apply more to one direction than the other.
It's much more likely someone drew lines on the map somewhere near
Chettisham, and half a mile south of Ely Station, and said "We are going
to bi-directionally signal the whole lot, whether or not there's an
immediate operational need". And it would have been simpler, too.
Going back to the WLL, the only location where trains seem to use
bidirectional working regularly is where the Relief Lines reach the
WCML south of Wembley Central. The Southern trains often pass each
other "wrong way" here and it looks on the track diagram that it might
give Down trains a few seconds longer to travel/consume before using a
set of points further morth thus going round the back of a Euston
train following close behind the paired Up SN train.
Roland Perry
2025-02-24 12:45:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side. Or even on the contraflow track all by
themselves.
https://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W21751/2025-02-24
Went on the Up line to platform 3.
--
Roland Perry
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-02-24 13:18:57 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
I've often (up to multiple times a day) seen services going north out of
Ely on both tracks side by side.
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
6L70 right and 1T33 left, a couple of minutes ago.
Roland Perry
2025-02-24 14:54:00 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've often (up to multiple times a day) seen services going north out of
Ely on both tracks side by side.
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
6L70 right and 1T33 left, a couple of minutes ago.
There must be something odd going on today (and neither OTT or RTT show
a 6L70). What with that earlier example of yours not using platform 1
and the one before that causing 15 minutes delay by using platform 1.
--
Roland Perry
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-02-25 07:13:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've often (up to multiple times a day) seen services going north out of
Ely on both tracks side by side.
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
6L70 right and 1T33 left, a couple of minutes ago.
There must be something odd going on today (and neither OTT or RTT show
a 6L70).
Disappeared and was not shown in Services at Ely.

Maybe went to 762/764?
Post by Roland Perry
What with that earlier example of yours not using platform 1
and the one before that causing 15 minutes delay by using platform 1.
And some red signal taking longer than usually?
Roland Perry
2025-02-25 07:45:05 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've often (up to multiple times a day) seen services going north out of
Ely on both tracks side by side.
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
6L70 right and 1T33 left, a couple of minutes ago.
There must be something odd going on today (and neither OTT or RTT show
a 6L70).
Disappeared and was not shown in Services at Ely.
Maybe went to 762/764?
That would be visible as "Ely Reception Siding". And you can't get there
from the North without going through platform 1.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
What with that earlier example of yours not using platform 1
and the one before that causing 15 minutes delay by using platform 1.
And some red signal taking longer than usually?
Both delayed trains were at a stand for around 10 minutes, so some other
issue.
--
Roland Perry
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-02-26 12:57:33 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly84k54ydwo
I remember Haughley Junction being a single lead junction in the early
70s. I presume Ely North Junction was downgraded when the semaphore
signalling was replaced.
Ely North isn't entirely single-lead, because there's an independent
westbound line towards Peterborough. It's bi-directionally signalled,
As far as the section north of Ely North Junction
is concerned, only on the western track from
Ely West Junction.
That's what I said. If you don't have anything useful to add, please
just SHUT UP.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
but I've never seen a train contra-flowing.
Not sure whether 914 and 910 signals
are active and can show 'proceed'.
I really don't care if you are sure are not. I'm looking at the
signalling diagrams.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Should be useful for Peterborough -
Brandon services reversing at Ely
and coming behind a freight train
to Soham which can not yet be taken
into Ely and in parallel with a
train from King's Lynn or Brandon.
I've often (up to multiple times a day) seen services going north out of
Ely on both tracks side by side.
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
Would happen more often if 914/910
were active wich I believe they were/
are not.

All trains coming from 908, 306, 800
must use a single track section which
they can't simultaneously.

Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
and thus have to slow down.
Roland Perry
2025-02-26 13:57:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
Would happen more often if 914/910
were active wich I believe they were/
are not.
What's your evidence for them not being active?
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
All trains coming from 908, 306, 800
must use a single track section which
they can't simultaneously.
Yes, and once again you state the obvious, this is the "single lead"
configuration which seems so hard to get the funds to remedy.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1, and so would never be signalled into
that impossible situation.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
and thus have to slow down.
--
Roland Perry
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-02-26 14:47:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
Would happen more often if 914/910
were active wich I believe they were/
are not.
What's your evidence for them not being active?
Just information. Read again and carefully the
link I posted concerning signal 301 although I
believe it to be outdated concerning the very 301.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
All trains coming from 908, 306, 800
must use a single track section which
they can't simultaneously.
Yes, and once again you state the obvious, this is the "single lead"
configuration which seems so hard to get the funds to remedy.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1,
Trains from London may terminate ast 1,
and some are booked to do so.
Post by Roland Perry
and so would never be signalled into
that impossible situation.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
and thus have to slow down.
BTW, 4L38 just approaching 298/290...
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-02-26 14:51:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1,
Trains from London may terminate ast 1,
and some are booked to do so.
Post by Roland Perry
and so would never be signalled into
that impossible situation.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
and thus have to slow down.
BTW, 4L38 just approaching 298/290...
Now, path opened to 270.

Might have been easier via 296 and 288,
1L40 now slowing down approaching 288.
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-02-26 14:59:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1,
Trains from London may terminate ast 1,
and some are booked to do so.
Post by Roland Perry
and so would never be signalled into
that impossible situation.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
and thus have to slow down.
BTW, 4L38 just approaching 298/290...
Now, path opened to 270.
Might have been easier via 296 and 288,
1L40 now slowing down approaching 288.
1L40 arr 6L, dep 7L, 1R76 dep 6L.
Roland Perry
2025-03-02 06:41:53 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1,
Trains from London may terminate ast 1,
and some are booked to do so.
Maybe for route knowledge (the going back south part), but it's
another move I've never seen in ten years lurking around the station.

Apart from anything else, it's only quite recently they've been
routinely terminating trains at Ely - before then it was just a few
late afternoon Jambusters which went back to Cambridge ECS. And they
used platform 2 (very confusing for people waiting there for a train
to Cambridge, to be told not to get on that particular one).

Modulo railtours, when I saw one Cathedrals Express terminate at
platform 1, then reverse into the reception siding for a few hours. They
ran the diesel around and attached it at the London end, reversed into
platform 1, and then set off back to London.
--
Roland Perry
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-03-02 09:05:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1,
Trains from London may terminate a[s]t 1,
and some are booked to do so.
Maybe for route knowledge (the going back south part), but it's
another move I've never seen in ten years lurking around the station.
I was lurking in the current timetables
for weekdays and found maby not all but
one aiirival in the morning and one in the
evening.
Post by Roland Perry
Apart from anything else, it's only quite recently they've been
routinely terminating trains at Ely - before then it was just a few
late afternoon Jambusters which went back to Cambridge ECS.
Has the Fen line electrification been
opened in stages or as a whole from
Cambridge into King's Lynn? I read about
1992.
Roland Perry
2025-03-02 18:46:06 UTC
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Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Has the Fen line electrification been
opened in stages or as a whole from
Cambridge into King's Lynn? I read about
1992.
I don't know, but it's so long ago it doesn't affect this thread.
--
Roland Perry
Mark Goodge
2025-03-02 21:04:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Apart from anything else, it's only quite recently they've been
routinely terminating trains at Ely - before then it was just a few
late afternoon Jambusters which went back to Cambridge ECS.
Has the Fen line electrification been
opened in stages or as a whole from
Cambridge into King's Lynn? I read about
1992.
It was a single project. Ely station was actually closed for a few weeks
during the construction work, with the former Chettisham station temporarily
reopened to serve Ely with rail replacement buses running from there to
Kings Lynn.

Mark
Rupert Moss-Eccardt
2025-03-02 12:32:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1,
Trains from London may terminate ast 1,
and some are booked to do so.
Maybe for route knowledge (the going back south part), but it's
another move I've never seen in ten years lurking around the station.
There is a regular train that terminates in the morning in platform one
and then goes back South ECS.
Post by Roland Perry
Apart from anything else, it's only quite recently they've been
routinely terminating trains at Ely - before then it was just a few
late afternoon Jambusters which went back to Cambridge ECS. And they
used platform 2 (very confusing for people waiting there for a train
to Cambridge, to be told not to get on that particular one).
Several years but I guess that counts as recent.
Roland Perry
2025-03-02 18:58:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1,
Trains from London may terminate ast 1,
and some are booked to do so.
Maybe for route knowledge (the going back south part), but it's
another move I've never seen in ten years lurking around the station.
There is a regular train that terminates in the morning in platform one
and then goes back South ECS.
Thanks for the update.

Luckily there aren't simultaneously two southbound trains scheduled to
arrive, thus if the ECS is late leaving it doesn't cause a southbound
train heading for platform 1 to be delayed.
Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
Post by Roland Perry
Apart from anything else, it's only quite recently they've been
routinely terminating trains at Ely - before then it was just a few
late afternoon Jambusters which went back to Cambridge ECS. And they
used platform 2 (very confusing for people waiting there for a train
to Cambridge, to be told not to get on that particular one).
Several years but I guess that counts as recent.
I couldn't remember how many years. From three to five perhaps.
--
Roland Perry
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-03-04 09:03:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1,
Trains from London may terminate ast 1,
and some are booked to do so.
Maybe for route knowledge (the going back south part), but it's
another move I've never seen in ten years lurking around the station.
There is a regular train that terminates in the morning in platform one
and then goes back South ECS.
Thanks for the update.
Luckily there aren't simultaneously two southbound trains scheduled to
arrive, thus if the ECS is late leaving it doesn't cause a southbound
train heading for platform 1 to be delayed.
The advantage of 290 is it allows pathing
to any platform. As far as 2/3 are concerned:
provided non of the signals 283, 285 (or
287, which must be rare) show proceed in order
to reach 295).
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-03-04 08:48:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1,
Trains from London may terminate ast 1,
and some are booked to do so.
Maybe for route knowledge (the going back south part), but it's
another move I've never seen in ten years lurking around the station.
There is a regular train that terminates in the morning in platform one
and then goes back South ECS.
%T08

Mill Road Jn
p 0857
Cambridge Sidings South
a 0901

There is also

5T98

Cambridge Sidings South
d 0915
Mill Road Jn
p 0919
Cambridge Sidings North OP
a 0923

Regards, ULF
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-03-04 09:14:03 UTC
Reply
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Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1,
Trains from London may terminate ast 1,
and some are booked to do so.
Maybe for route knowledge (the going back south part), but it's
another move I've never seen in ten years lurking around the station.
There is a regular train that terminates in the morning in platform one
and then goes back South ECS.
%T08
Mill Road Jn
p 0857
Cambridge Sidings South
a 0901
There is also
5T98
Cambridge Sidings South
d 0915
Mill Road Jn
p 0919
Cambridge Sidings North OP
a 0923
Hm. The latter switched on the map from 1H98,
at platform 4.
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-03-04 09:29:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Apart from anything else, it's only quite recently they've been
routinely terminating trains at Ely - before then it was just a few
late afternoon Jambusters which went back to Cambridge ECS. And they
used platform 2 (very confusing for people waiting there for a train
to Cambridge, to be told not to get on that particular one).
They might be fine with 1T12, which becomes 1T19...
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-03-04 19:37:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
Would happen more often if 914/910
were active wich I believe they were/
are not.
What's your evidence for them not being active?
Hm, 1L49 is now to run from 916 to 290 via
914 and 910...
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-03-12 09:02:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
Would happen more often if 914/910
were active wich I believe they were/
are not.
What's your evidence for them not being active?
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
All trains coming from 908, 306, 800
must use a single track section which
they can't simultaneously.
Yes, and once again you state the obvious, this is the "single lead"
configuration which seems so hard to get the funds to remedy.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1, and so would never be signalled into
that impossible situation.
I am quite sure today 1L28 went from 290
to 276 while 1T10 was at platform 1.
Roland Perry
2025-03-12 10:35:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
Would happen more often if 914/910
were active wich I believe they were/
are not.
What's your evidence for them not being active?
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
All trains coming from 908, 306, 800
must use a single track section which
they can't simultaneously.
Yes, and once again you state the obvious, this is the "single lead"
configuration which seems so hard to get the funds to remedy.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1, and so would never be signalled into
that impossible situation.
I am quite sure today 1L28 went from 290
to 276 while 1T10 was at platform 1.
So what? That's not the troublesome scenario, which would have been 1T10
blocking platform 1 and something else blocking platform 2 via 288.
--
Roland Perry
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-03-12 10:48:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
Would happen more often if 914/910
were active wich I believe they were/
are not.
What's your evidence for them not being active?
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
All trains coming from 908, 306, 800
must use a single track section which
they can't simultaneously.
Yes, and once again you state the obvious, this is the "single lead"
configuration which seems so hard to get the funds to remedy.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1, and so would never be signalled into
that impossible situation.
I am quite sure today 1L28 went from 290
to 276 while 1T10 was at platform 1.
So what? That's not the troublesome scenario, which would have been 1T10
blocking platform 1 and something else blocking platform 2 via 288.
Under which conditions access to an Ely platform
can be signalled with a (short) train already waiting
at the given platform (or a section of it)?
Roland Perry
2025-03-12 12:11:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
Would happen more often if 914/910
were active wich I believe they were/
are not.
What's your evidence for them not being active?
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
All trains coming from 908, 306, 800
must use a single track section which
they can't simultaneously.
Yes, and once again you state the obvious, this is the "single lead"
configuration which seems so hard to get the funds to remedy.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1, and so would never be signalled into
that impossible situation.
I am quite sure today 1L28 went from 290
to 276 while 1T10 was at platform 1.
So what? That's not the troublesome scenario, which would have been 1T10
blocking platform 1 and something else blocking platform 2 via 288.
Under which conditions access to an Ely platform
can be signalled with a (short) train already waiting
at the given platform (or a section of it)?
That makes no sense. The original question was two trains side-by-side
approaching the station from the north, and P1 blocked.
--
Roland Perry
Certes
2025-03-12 12:29:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
Would happen more often if 914/910
were active wich I believe they were/
are not.
What's your evidence for them not being active?
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
All trains coming from 908, 306, 800
must use a single track section which
they can't simultaneously.
Yes, and once again you state the obvious, this is the "single lead"
configuration which seems so hard to get the funds to remedy.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1, and so would never be signalled into
that impossible situation.
I am quite sure today 1L28 went from 290
to 276 while 1T10 was at platform 1.
So what? That's not the troublesome scenario, which would have been 1T10
blocking platform 1 and something else blocking platform 2 via 288.
Under which conditions access to an Ely platform
can be signalled with a (short) train already waiting
at the given platform (or a section of it)?
That makes no sense. The original question was two trains side-by-side
approaching the station from the north, and P1 blocked.
Then you just route them into P2 and P3, in either order, one at a time
because the routes conflict. Bonus point for dealing with the train at
290 first so the train in P1 can be on its way north sooner.
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-03-12 12:31:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
Would happen more often if 914/910
were active wich I believe they were/
are not.
What's your evidence for them not being active?
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
All trains coming from 908, 306, 800
must use a single track section which
they can't simultaneously.
Yes, and once again you state the obvious, this is the "single lead"
configuration which seems so hard to get the funds to remedy.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1, and so would never be signalled into
that impossible situation.
I am quite sure today 1L28 went from 290
to 276 while 1T10 was at platform 1.
So what? That's not the troublesome scenario, which would have been 1T10
blocking platform 1 and something else blocking platform 2 via 288.
Under which conditions access to an Ely platform
can be signalled with a (short) train already waiting
at the given platform (or a section of it)?
That makes no sense.
Well, you proved you did not get it.
Post by Roland Perry
The original question was two trains side-by-side
approaching the station from the north, and P1 blocked.
So, coming back to my latest question.
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-03-14 10:24:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
Would happen more often if 914/910
were active wich I believe they were/
are not.
What's your evidence for them not being active?
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
All trains coming from 908, 306, 800
must use a single track section which
they can't simultaneously.
Yes, and once again you state the obvious, this is the "single lead"
configuration which seems so hard to get the funds to remedy.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1, and so would never be signalled into
that impossible situation.
I am quite sure today 1L28 went from 290
to 276 while 1T10 was at platform 1.
So what? That's not the troublesome scenario, which would have been 1T10
blocking platform 1 and something else blocking platform 2 via 288.
Under which conditions access to an Ely platform
can be signalled with a (short) train already waiting
at the given platform (or a section of it)?
That makes no sense. The original question was two trains side-by-side
approaching the station from the north, and P1 blocked.
1K67 now overpassing 1T21 (waiting at 296).
Yet no idea where 1N49 shall go.
Ulf_Kutzner
2025-03-14 10:27:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
1K67 now overpassing 1T21 (waiting at 296).
Yet no idea where 1N49 shall go.
Hm, map was inaccurate, 1T21 jumped to 232...
Coffee
2025-03-13 12:03:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
Would happen more often if 914/910
were active wich I believe they were/
are not.
What's your evidence for them not being active?
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
All trains coming from 908, 306, 800
must use a single track section which
they can't simultaneously.
Yes, and once again you state the obvious, this is the "single lead"
configuration which seems so hard to get the funds to remedy.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1, and so would never be signalled into
that impossible situation.
I am quite sure today 1L28 went from 290
to 276 while 1T10 was at platform 1.
So what? That's not the troublesome scenario, which would have been 1T10
blocking platform 1 and something else blocking platform 2 via 288.
Under which conditions access to an Ely platform
can be signalled with a (short) train already waiting
at the given platform (or a section of it)?
I don't know about Ely railway station specifically...

However during my times there waiting for connections in recent years I
cannot recall seeing a platform shared between two services or used for
attaching services.

Roland might have a better idea.
Certes
2025-03-13 19:08:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Coffee
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
Would happen more often if 914/910
were active wich I believe they were/
are not.
What's your evidence for them not being active?
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
All trains coming from 908, 306, 800
must use a single track section which
they can't simultaneously.
Yes, and once again you state the obvious, this is the "single lead"
configuration which seems so hard to get the funds to remedy.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1, and so would never be signalled into
that impossible situation.
I am quite sure today 1L28 went from 290
to 276 while 1T10 was at platform 1.
So what? That's not the troublesome scenario, which would have been 1T10
blocking platform 1 and something else blocking platform 2 via 288.
Under which conditions access to an Ely platform
can be signalled with a (short) train already waiting
at the given platform (or a section of it)?
I don't know about Ely railway station specifically...
However during my times there waiting for connections in recent years I
cannot recall seeing a platform shared between two services or used for
attaching services.
Roland might have a better idea.
When Ely to King’s Lynn could only take four cars, did any services dump
the rest of the train at Ely and pick it up on the way back, or was that
always done at Cambridge?
Theo
2025-03-13 20:16:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Certes
When Ely to King’s Lynn could only take four cars, did any services dump
the rest of the train at Ely and pick it up on the way back, or was that
always done at Cambridge?
I'd not want to tempt the Usenet wrath of saying 'always', but AIUI I don't
think there was any splitting at Ely - there were power supply limitations
north of Milton so the Ely portion was usually 4 cars of 365.

The pattern was typically 8 cars from KX to Cambridge, split, front 4 cars
continue to King's Lynn via Ely.

In the peak there were sometimes workings which split at Royston, the rear 4
cars forming the stopper from Royston to Cambridge and the rest continuing
to Ely. I'm not sure if that was before or after services were extended to
12 cars, but I don't think there was ever a double split (4 cars Royston
stopper, 8 cars forward to Cambridge where it further split).

It's possible 12-car-isation was post the power supply upgrade that allowed
8 cars forward to Ely as a regular occurrence; I don't recall whether the
Royston dropoff operated at that point.

Theo
Roland Perry
2025-03-13 20:29:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Certes
Post by Coffee
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at
both tracks side by side.
Would happen more often if 914/910
were active wich I believe they were/
are not.
What's your evidence for them not being active?
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
All trains coming from 908, 306, 800
must use a single track section which
they can't simultaneously.
Yes, and once again you state the obvious, this is the "single lead"
configuration which seems so hard to get the funds to remedy.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1, and so would never be
signalled into
that impossible situation.
I am quite sure today 1L28 went from 290
to 276 while 1T10 was at platform 1.
So what? That's not the troublesome scenario, which would have been 1T10
blocking platform 1 and something else blocking platform 2 via 288.
Under which conditions access to an Ely platform
can be signalled with a (short) train already waiting
at the given platform (or a section of it)?
I don't know about Ely railway station specifically...
However during my times there waiting for connections in recent
years I cannot recall seeing a platform shared between two services
or used for attaching services.
Roland might have a better idea.
When Ely to King’s Lynn could only take four cars, did any services dump
the rest of the train at Ely and pick it up on the way back, or was that
always done at Cambridge?
Always Cambridge. One reason being the drivers then either signed north
of Cambridge or south of Cambridge, so shunting things around at Ely
would play havoc with the rotas.

What changed about three/four years ago was every other fast train from
London terminating at Ely, rather than terminating at Cambridge. The
other one splitting at Cambridge if 12-car, or if 8-car running through
to Kings Lynn.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2025-03-13 20:26:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Coffee
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
Would happen more often if 914/910
were active wich I believe they were/
are not.
What's your evidence for them not being active?
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
All trains coming from 908, 306, 800
must use a single track section which
they can't simultaneously.
Yes, and once again you state the obvious, this is the "single lead"
configuration which seems so hard to get the funds to remedy.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1, and so would never be signalled into
that impossible situation.
I am quite sure today 1L28 went from 290
to 276 while 1T10 was at platform 1.
So what? That's not the troublesome scenario, which would have been 1T10
blocking platform 1 and something else blocking platform 2 via 288.
Under which conditions access to an Ely platform
can be signalled with a (short) train already waiting
at the given platform (or a section of it)?
I don't know about Ely railway station specifically...
However during my times there waiting for connections in recent years I
cannot recall seeing a platform shared between two services or used for
attaching services.
Roland might have a better idea.
I've seen platform 3 several times used to stable a train that would
later head for London, and also reverse a Liverpool<>Norwich train.

Never seen any coupling/uncoupling.
--
Roland Perry
Rupert Moss-Eccardt
2025-03-13 20:32:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Coffee
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
Would happen more often if 914/910
were active wich I believe they were/
are not.
What's your evidence for them not being active?
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
All trains coming from 908, 306, 800
must use a single track section which
they can't simultaneously.
Yes, and once again you state the obvious, this is the "single lead"
configuration which seems so hard to get the funds to remedy.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1, and so would never be signalled into
that impossible situation.
I am quite sure today 1L28 went from 290
to 276 while 1T10 was at platform 1.
So what? That's not the troublesome scenario, which would have been 1T10
blocking platform 1 and something else blocking platform 2 via 288.
Under which conditions access to an Ely platform
can be signalled with a (short) train already waiting
at the given platform (or a section of it)?
I don't know about Ely railway station specifically...
However during my times there waiting for connections in recent years I
cannot recall seeing a platform shared between two services or used for
attaching services.
Do you treat 3a and 3b as separate platforms?
Trolleybus
2025-03-14 09:20:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 12:03:58 +0000, Coffee
Post by Coffee
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
I don't know about Ely railway station specifically...
However during my times there waiting for connections in recent years I
cannot recall seeing a platform shared between two services or used for
attaching services.
I've seen platform sharing at Ely and the sectional appendox confirms
that all three platforms are permissive for passenger trains. I don't
think I've seen any joins/splits.

It was interesting at Ely when the derailment blocked the Peterborough
line. There was a fair bit of platform sharing and trains were using
the Ely Reception goods loop to layover. Trains doing this had to use
platform 1 so they had no choice but to use the down line from Ely
North.

Going back to the earlier discussion I have used both lines wrong way.
It's far less common on the down but trains from Peterborough can
switch to wrong line not only at Ely North but also at Ely West Jn,
avoiding a conflict at Ely North with a Norwich/King's Lynn arrival or
departure.
Post by Coffee
Roland might have a better idea.
Sam Wilson
2025-03-15 12:11:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Coffee
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Post by Roland Perry
I've never (in ten years) seen services arriving southbound at Ely on
both tracks side by side.
Would happen more often if 914/910
were active wich I believe they were/
are not.
What's your evidence for them not being active?
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
All trains coming from 908, 306, 800
must use a single track section which
they can't simultaneously.
Yes, and once again you state the obvious, this is the "single lead"
configuration which seems so hard to get the funds to remedy.
Post by Ulf_Kutzner
Chances of parallel running might be
given with the first train having
to wait for a free track in Ely station
Highly unlikely, because one train has a choice of platforms 2&3, and
the other train will be blocking the exit route for a northbound
conflicting train from platform 1, and so would never be signalled into
that impossible situation.
I am quite sure today 1L28 went from 290
to 276 while 1T10 was at platform 1.
So what? That's not the troublesome scenario, which would have been 1T10
blocking platform 1 and something else blocking platform 2 via 288.
Under which conditions access to an Ely platform
can be signalled with a (short) train already waiting
at the given platform (or a section of it)?
I don't know about Ely railway station specifically...
However during my times there waiting for connections in recent years I
cannot recall seeing a platform shared between two services or used for
attaching services.
I was on such a shared service on Thursday! I caught the 13:51, an EMR 158
Norwich to Liverpool service, from Ely to Peterborough. It reversed in
platform 3B while 3A was occupied with a Thameslink set.

Sam
--
The entity formerly known as ***@ed.ac.uk
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