Post by Charles EllsonPost by Roland PerryPost by Charles EllsonPost by Roland PerryPost by Charles EllsonPost by Roland PerryPost by Charles EllsonPost by Rupert Moss-EccardtIt would surprise me, given that Scotland is a different jurisdiction
to England and Wales. I can't think of a policing role that would
straddle the boundary and certainly not one that would occasion
visiting many police stations.
The only civilian force currently getting to all parts routinely would
be ModPlod, the Civil Nuclear Constabulary and the BTP have no current
relevant places to deal with in Northern Ireland.
Apart from specialist officers from (mainly) Scotland Yard and City of
London Police.
Those are individuals not the forces.
It's individuals who would be touring police stations around the
country, not the organisation. Unless you think Scotland Yard has a
furniture van full of desks and things which follows such officers
around the country.
Post by Charles EllsonThey don't inevitably have or
need the powers of a constable when working in another jurisdiction.
What's that got to do with whether or not they visit numerous police
stations?
Because when they visit another jurisdiction, the lawfulness of their
activities and/or access to information might depend on that status.
Might. But it almost never does.
It actually nearly always does. A police constable's attestation is by
defauit only valid in the jurisdiction in which he took it. To remain
a PC after crossing a border requires a reason such as e.g. hot
pursuit or formal arrangements between the forces concerned. A police
constable attested only in England and Wales is still a PC if he goes
on holiday in London or Llandudno but not if he goes on holiday to
Lurgan or Linlithgow when he losees his default powers at the relative
national boundary (adjust as appropriate for PS or PSNI). Even if
working, the same can apply if it was not deemed necessary to extend
those powers for the work concerned or if the work was outwith the
bounds of an applicable protocol or requirement.
Some of this is comparable to what caused the ad hoc powers of a BTP
constable to be amended a few years ago as there was previously a
danger that they could find themselves reduced to the powers of a
member of the general public if giving emergency assistance to a
constable in a Police Act force.
Post by Roland PerryThey are very careful about that sort of thing.
"should be" not "are"
Post by Roland PerryPost by Charles EllsonPost by Roland PerryPost by Charles EllsonPost by Roland PerryAnd I'm not sure if are being uber-pedantic about the
officer status of investigators from whatever SOCA is called this week.
The National Crime Agency which inherited the powers of SOCA so they
only have full powers in England and Wales. Their nearest Scottish
equivalent, the Scottish Crime and Drug Enforcement Agency was
absorbed into Police Scotland. The NCA operates in Northern Ireland
under a Memorandum of Understanding with PSNI under the oversight of
the Policing Board for Northern Ireland. In Scotland their activities
require authorisation from the Lord Advocate.
All very interesting, but beside the point.
Very much to the point when considering whether or not a person's
activities are lawful.
Their time is so precious their bosses simply aren't going to send them
off to do something illegal. Much of the time it'll be written in
various protocols.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a801b37ed915d74e33f87ad/Factsheet_14b_-_Cross-border_powers.pdf
Policing and Crime Bill
Cross-border enforcement
Introduction
1. The Bill extends the cross-border powers of arrest conferred by Part 10
of the
Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 (“the 1994 Act”) by giving a
constable
of a police force in a particular part of the United Kingdom power to
arrest a
person in that part who is reasonably suspected of having committed a
specified
offence in another part.
Background
2. Currently, the 1994 Act provides the police, in any of the jurisdictions
of England
and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, with a power of arrest in
relation to
offences committed in another jurisdiction where a warrant has been issued.
3. Section 137 of the 1994 Act provides that a constable from one
jurisdiction can,
without a warrant, arrest (or in the case of Scottish constables, “detain”)
a person
in a jurisdiction other than their own ‘home’ jurisdiction, as long as that
constable
has reasonable grounds for suspecting that an offence has been committed or
attempted in the constable’s ‘home’ jurisdiction.
4. The 1994 Act does not, however, provide for a police officer in one
jurisdiction to
arrest a person wanted in another where there is no warrant for their
arrest. This
allows suspects to evade arrest simply by crossing the boundary into
another
jurisdiction.
Solution
5. The provisions in the Bill close this gap by introducing a new
cross-border power
of arrest in urgent cases for the purpose of enabling the person to be
re-arrested
either under section 136 (where an arrest warrant is obtained) or under
section
137 of the 1994 Act where no arrest warrant is issued.
6. In particular, it gives a constable of a police force (the ‘arresting
force’), in a
particular part of the United Kingdom, the power to arrest a person in that
part
who is reasonably suspected of having committed a specified offence and is
being investigated by a police force (the ‘investigating force’) in another
part.
7. Given that the criminal law differs in each of the three jurisdictions
it is necessary
to develop a bespoke, but analogous, list of offences for each
jurisdiction. To
allow for the appropriate consultation with, and consent of, the devolved
administrations, and consultation with police forces in the three
jurisdictions, the
Bill provides for a list of offences to be specified in secondary
legislation. This
approach would also afford the flexibility to update the list in the light
of
experience and to reflect the creation of relevant new offences.
8. These offences are limited insofar as they must be tried on indictment,
and the
Secretary of State must be satisfied that it is necessary and in the
interests of
justice that the new power of arrest should apply to it. This additional
safeguard
will ensure that the Secretary of State considers whether the new power of
arrest
is appropriate and proportionate on a case by case basis for each offence.
9. The Bill also provides powers of entry and search for the purpose of
making an
arrest under Part 10 of the 1994 Act (as amended by clause 105). It applies
only
in relation to the exercise of powers of arrest in England and Wales or
Northern
Ireland, and only in respect of offences tried on indictment and certain
other
offences committed in England and Wales or Northern Ireland.
Home Office
July 2016