Discussion:
‘How patronising’: rail bosses face anger over plan to hide train departure times
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Coffee
2025-02-06 22:01:28 UTC
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https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bosses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
Nobody
2025-02-07 01:18:19 UTC
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On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 22:01:28 +0000, Coffee
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bosses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
"Many also fear the system will cause more rushing than it prevents.
They pointed out that trains' platform departures are often only
revealed minutes before they are due to depart, so the new system
could only give them seconds to react to platform announcements."

That'll *learn* the smartphone-focussed set kwikly...
Scott
2025-02-07 09:24:07 UTC
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On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 22:01:28 +0000, Coffee
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bosses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
I can see two sides to this. On one hand, why should anyone be
expected to miss a train unnecessarily? OTOH it is good manners and
respectful to other passengers to arrive in good time and not risk
creating delay to the train and all its passengers.

If the train is delayed, will the departure board reflect the
scheduled or the actual departure? It would be perverse it the train
were to be delayed by 20 minutes but removed from the departure board
three minutes before scheduled departure.
Theo
2025-02-07 11:41:16 UTC
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Post by Nobody
On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 22:01:28 +0000, Coffee
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bosses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
I can see two sides to this. On one hand, why should anyone be
expected to miss a train unnecessarily? OTOH it is good manners and
respectful to other passengers to arrive in good time and not risk
creating delay to the train and all its passengers.
It's particularly problematic for people on Advance tickets (a significant
proportion on LNER, given ticket 'simplification'?) because they aren't just
missing a train and having to catch the next one, they're invalidating their
ticket and potentially having to pay hundreds of pounds for a new one.

To deny them the ability to catch a train that they arrived on time for is
approaching fraudulent behaviour.

Theo
Rolf Mantel
2025-02-07 11:49:39 UTC
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Post by Theo
Post by Nobody
On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 22:01:28 +0000, Coffee
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bosses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
I can see two sides to this. On one hand, why should anyone be
expected to miss a train unnecessarily? OTOH it is good manners and
respectful to other passengers to arrive in good time and not risk
creating delay to the train and all its passengers.
It's particularly problematic for people on Advance tickets (a significant
proportion on LNER, given ticket 'simplification'?) because they aren't just
missing a train and having to catch the next one, they're invalidating their
ticket and potentially having to pay hundreds of pounds for a new one.
To deny them the ability to catch a train that they arrived on time for is
approaching fraudulent behaviour.
The french have been doing this in Paris for years, as my son noticed:
"The gates to the platform will be closed 2 minutes before planned
departure".
Later that day, there were only a few 1st class tickets left, so this
became really expensive.
Roland Perry
2025-02-10 09:47:53 UTC
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Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bo
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2025-02-10 14:15:06 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bo
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic problem is that Euston is short of platforms,
thanks to the loss of some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their turnaround times.
Roland Perry
2025-02-10 17:08:49 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bo
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2025-02-10 17:33:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bo
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
Roland Perry
2025-02-10 18:34:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bo
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
It's Kings Cross which I am familiar with, especially the "only announce
ten minutes in advance".
--
Roland Perry
Coffee
2025-02-11 13:15:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-
rail-bo
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
It's Kings Cross which I am familiar with, especially the "only announce
ten minutes in advance".
I'm planning to travel through Kings Cross railway station next month on
my way to Norfolk and Suffolk. The connections times between
Paddington and Kings Cross can be very tight but I'll try and see what's
going on if I have enough time.
Graeme Wall
2025-02-10 21:01:24 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bo
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2025-02-10 21:45:31 UTC
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Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bo
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Mark Goodge
2025-02-10 22:01:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Euston: We've found the ultimate way to annoy passengers. Don't tell them
where the train is until there are only a few minutes before it departs.

Kings Cross: Hold my beer.

Mark
Roland Perry
2025-02-12 07:32:01 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bo
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2025-02-12 10:24:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bo
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the suburban
platforms. However, note that escalators down to the platforms are
currently out of service.
Roland Perry
2025-02-13 09:22:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 09:47:53 +0000, Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bo
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the suburban
platforms.
It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing from
one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.

Also of course, it's completely unscaleable to more than a few dozen pax
per train.
Post by Recliner
However, note that escalators down to the platforms are currently out
of service.
Indeed.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2025-02-13 12:04:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 09:47:53 +0000, Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bo
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the suburban
platforms.
It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing from
one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
Huh? The escalator is directly opposite the suburban platforms. That’s why
it’s the perfect location to wait if the train could use either platform
group.
Post by Roland Perry
Also of course, it's completely unscaleable to more than a few dozen pax
per train.
A bit more than that, but, yes, it’s a secret for those in the know, not
the whole world.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
However, note that escalators down to the platforms are currently out
of service.
Indeed.
I wonder why several (but not all) the platform escalators are closed at
once? It can’t be an individual technical fault.
Roland Perry
2025-02-14 06:51:18 UTC
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Post by Recliner
I wonder why several (but not all) the platform escalators are closed at
once? It can’t be an individual technical fault.
Probably something like a fault on the emergency stop system, which
could be centralised in one controller for all the escalators.

Alternatively, they all probably share one electrical power feed.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2025-02-14 11:19:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
I wonder why several (but not all) the platform escalators are closed at
once? It can’t be an individual technical fault.
Probably something like a fault on the emergency stop system, which
could be centralised in one controller for all the escalators.
Alternatively, they all probably share one electrical power feed.
Yes, the latter sounds more likely.
Recliner
2025-03-07 13:38:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
I wonder why several (but not all) the platform escalators are closed at
once? It can’t be an individual technical fault.
Probably something like a fault on the emergency stop system, which
could be centralised in one controller for all the escalators.
Alternatively, they all probably share one electrical power feed.
Yes, the latter sounds more likely.
Well that theory is disproved, as all but one of the previously closed escalators are now back in service. However, I'm
at a loss to come up with a better one.
JMB99
2025-03-14 15:07:30 UTC
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Permalink
Is this clumsy attempt to hide trains being late, going to be added to
things like Ratner's in the list of examples of management stupidity?
Recliner
2025-03-14 17:11:14 UTC
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Permalink
Post by JMB99
Is this clumsy attempt to hide trains being late, going to be added to
things like Ratner's in the list of examples of management stupidity?
How does it hide that trains are late? That’s clearly shown on the
departure boards. And train passengers are well aware that many trains run
late.

I don’t see any connection to the infamous Ratner story.
Coffee
2025-03-15 07:03:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JMB99
Is this clumsy attempt to hide trains being late, going to be added to
things like Ratner's in the list of examples of management stupidity?
It seems to me that health and safety has now risen so high in
management's agenda that the public's convenience has been totally
forgotten.

I will add that many direction signs at Kings Cross railway station
range between useless and misleading. It's a dreadful place to find
your way around when you don't know it.

I lived in Cambridge as a child and my preference was to travel via
Kings Cross due to the more varied traction so I used to know my around
the station very well. It's dire today.

(My mother was happy to indulge me when she discovered the griddle car
on those services!)
Recliner
2025-03-15 11:44:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Coffee
Post by JMB99
Is this clumsy attempt to hide trains being late, going to be added to
things like Ratner's in the list of examples of management stupidity?
It seems to me that health and safety has now risen so high in
management's agenda that the public's convenience has been totally
forgotten.
I will add that many direction signs at Kings Cross railway station
range between useless and misleading. It's a dreadful place to find
your way around when you don't know it.
There’s quite a few youngish people standing around the concourse and the
Kings Boulevard area wearing Kings Cross logo shirts. I’m not sure if
they’re security or there to help confused passengers, and if they work for
NR or the property development group. If you stand around looking lost,
they proactively approach to offer help.

Recliner
2025-03-07 13:57:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 09:47:53 +0000, Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bo
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the suburban
platforms.
It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing from
one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
I checked it out yesterday, and found that the ideal spot is within about a minute's walk of all 12 platforms. It's even
closer than I had thought.

If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used, and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.

You can see the area in this shot:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/lightbox/

It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level, with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.

It's better to wait downstairs if a high number platform is more likely, or upstairs if a lower number is more likely,
or if you just have no clue which platform would be used (which shouldn't apply to any of us). The walking time between
the base of the escalators and the suburban platforms is about 10 seconds. Put it another way, if you thought your train
would be from the suburban platforms, and were waiting near them, and then hear that it's been moved to platform 0, it's
only a couple of minutes walk to get there. The Parcel Yard pub is also quite well placed.
Post by Roland Perry
Also of course, it's completely unscaleable to more than a few dozen pax
per train.
Yes, it's for the few people who really know their way round the station, not occasional visitors who are unfamiliar
with the station, or who just like long walks.
Coffee
2025-03-07 14:59:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 09:47:53 +0000, Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bo
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the suburban
platforms.
It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing from
one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
I checked it out yesterday, and found that the ideal spot is within about a minute's walk of all 12 platforms. It's even
closer than I had thought.
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used, and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level, with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
It's better to wait downstairs if a high number platform is more likely, or upstairs if a lower number is more likely,
or if you just have no clue which platform would be used (which shouldn't apply to any of us). The walking time between
the base of the escalators and the suburban platforms is about 10 seconds. Put it another way, if you thought your train
would be from the suburban platforms, and were waiting near them, and then hear that it's been moved to platform 0, it's
only a couple of minutes walk to get there. The Parcel Yard pub is also quite well placed.
Post by Roland Perry
Also of course, it's completely unscaleable to more than a few dozen pax
per train.
Yes, it's for the few people who really know their way round the station, not occasional visitors who are unfamiliar
with the station, or who just like long walks.
I used to know Kings Cross well but rarely pass through there now. I
can no longer even recognise where your photograph now. Fortunately
I'll be departing from the suburban platforms in a couple of weeks with
RTT to hand.
Recliner
2025-03-07 16:05:14 UTC
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Post by Coffee
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 09:47:53 +0000, Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bo
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the suburban
platforms.
It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing from
one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
I checked it out yesterday, and found that the ideal spot is within about a minute's walk of all 12 platforms. It's even
closer than I had thought.
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used, and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level, with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
It's better to wait downstairs if a high number platform is more likely, or upstairs if a lower number is more likely,
or if you just have no clue which platform would be used (which shouldn't apply to any of us). The walking time between
the base of the escalators and the suburban platforms is about 10 seconds. Put it another way, if you thought your train
would be from the suburban platforms, and were waiting near them, and then hear that it's been moved to platform 0, it's
only a couple of minutes walk to get there. The Parcel Yard pub is also quite well placed.
Post by Roland Perry
Also of course, it's completely unscaleable to more than a few dozen pax
per train.
Yes, it's for the few people who really know their way round the station, not occasional visitors who are unfamiliar
with the station, or who just like long walks.
I used to know Kings Cross well but rarely pass through there now. I
can no longer even recognise where your photograph now. Fortunately
I'll be departing from the suburban platforms in a couple of weeks with
RTT to hand.
This is another view of that location:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54371261988/in/dateposted-friend/lightbox/

The seats round the pillar are convenient, but unfortunately you get an obstructed view of the departures board.

So, if you are waiting by the suburban platforms, but your trains is unexpectedly diverted to the main shed, just take
the escalator on the left of that photo up to the curved bridge to the main shed footbridge. It'll only take you a
couple of minutes to get to any of platforms 0-8.

I forgot to add that the toilets are also close by, and are now free, of course.
Roland Perry
2025-03-09 06:19:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 09:47:53 +0000, Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronisi
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the suburban
platforms.
It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing from
one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
I checked it out yesterday, and found that the ideal spot is within
about a minute's walk of all 12 platforms. It's even
closer than I had thought.
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
Post by Recliner
It's better to wait downstairs if a high number platform is more
likely, or upstairs if a lower number is more likely,
or if you just have no clue which platform would be used (which
shouldn't apply to any of us). The walking time between
the base of the escalators and the suburban platforms is about 10
seconds. Put it another way, if you thought your train
would be from the suburban platforms, and were waiting near them, and
then hear that it's been moved to platform 0, it's
only a couple of minutes walk to get there. The Parcel Yard pub is also quite well placed.
Yes, I tend to wait there until about t-10 minutes, although that
assumes a fairly relaxed schedule. Back in the day I'd be more likely to
be sprinting from the old tube concourse at about t-1 minute.
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Also of course, it's completely unscaleable to more than a few dozen pax
per train.
Yes, it's for the few people who really know their way round the
station, not occasional visitors who are unfamiliar
with the station, or who just like long walks.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2025-03-09 11:08:51 UTC
Reply
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 09:47:53 +0000, Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronisi
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the suburban
platforms.
It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing from
one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
I checked it out yesterday, and found that the ideal spot is within
about a minute's walk of all 12 platforms. It's even
closer than I had thought.
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
There’s a perfect view of the nearby departure board from there,
particularly from my recommended position upstairs. But, of course, as we
now know, you can use the NR app instead, even if you can’t see the board,
as the content is the same.
Roland Perry
2025-03-10 09:46:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 09:47:53 +0000, Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronisi
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then
narrows the window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the suburban
platforms.
It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing from
one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
I checked it out yesterday, and found that the ideal spot is within
about a minute's walk of all 12 platforms. It's even
closer than I had thought.
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
There’s a perfect view of the nearby departure board from there,
particularly from my recommended position upstairs. But, of course, as we
now know, you can use the NR app instead, even if you can’t see the board,
as the content is the same.
I don't carry my phone in my hand permanently, like many people seem
to. And when travelling usually have luggage, and a picnic, so not
necessarily a spare hand anyway.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2025-03-10 11:59:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 09:47:53 +0000, Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronisi
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then
narrows the window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the suburban
platforms.
It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing from
one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
I checked it out yesterday, and found that the ideal spot is within
about a minute's walk of all 12 platforms. It's even
closer than I had thought.
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
There’s a perfect view of the nearby departure board from there,
particularly from my recommended position upstairs. But, of course, as we
now know, you can use the NR app instead, even if you can’t see the board,
as the content is the same.
I don't carry my phone in my hand permanently, like many people seem
to. And when travelling usually have luggage, and a picnic, so not
necessarily a spare hand anyway.
Well, there’s an excellent view of the departure board from the perfect
waiting area, which is only a minute or so’s walk from all 12 platforms.
There’s also some seating in that area.
Coffee
2025-03-10 12:43:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
14:15:06 on
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 09:47:53 +0000, Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronisi
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then
narrows the window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with
late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the suburban
platforms.
It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing from
one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
I checked it out yesterday, and found that the ideal spot is within
about a minute's walk of all 12 platforms. It's even
closer than I had thought.
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
There’s a perfect view of the nearby departure board from there,
particularly from my recommended position upstairs. But, of course, as we
now know, you can use the NR app instead, even if you can’t see the board,
as the content is the same.
I don't carry my phone in my hand permanently, like many people seem
to. And when travelling usually have luggage, and a picnic, so not
necessarily a spare hand anyway.
So how do you present your tickets at the barrier?
Post by Recliner
Well, there’s an excellent view of the departure board from the perfect
waiting area, which is only a minute or so’s walk from all 12 platforms.
There’s also some seating in that area.
ColinR
2025-03-10 14:45:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Coffee
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
14:15:06 on
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 09:47:53 +0000, Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-
patronisi
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then
narrows the  window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time.
The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to
the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to
minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross,
solves that
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston
problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with
late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the suburban
platforms.
It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing from
one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
I checked it out yesterday, and found that the ideal spot is within
about a minute's walk of all 12 platforms. It's even
closer than I had thought.
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-
friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
There’s a perfect view of the nearby departure board from there,
particularly from my recommended position upstairs. But, of course, as we
now know, you can use the NR app instead, even if you can’t see the board,
as the content is the same.
I don't carry my phone in my hand permanently, like many people seem
to. And when travelling usually have luggage, and a picnic, so not
necessarily a spare hand anyway.
So how do you present your tickets at the barrier?
With difficulty?? ;-)
--
Colin
Roland Perry
2025-03-10 19:12:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Coffee
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
14:15:06 on
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 09:47:53 +0000, Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronisi
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then
narrows the window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that
time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross,
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with
late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the suburban
platforms.
It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing from
one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
I checked it out yesterday, and found that the ideal spot is within
about a minute's walk of all 12 platforms. It's even
closer than I had thought.
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
There’s a perfect view of the nearby departure board from there,
particularly from my recommended position upstairs. But, of course, as we
now know, you can use the NR app instead, even if you can’t see the board,
as the content is the same.
I don't carry my phone in my hand permanently, like many people seem
to. And when travelling usually have luggage, and a picnic, so not
necessarily a spare hand anyway.
So how do you present your tickets at the barrier?
I print them out, and stuff them in my top pocket, slightly ahead of
reaching the barrier is stop, pull the ticket out and then proceed with
it held in one of my two hands (the one for the baggage or the one for
the picnic; or sometimes two bags).
Post by Coffee
Post by Recliner
Well, there’s an excellent view of the departure board from the perfect
waiting area, which is only a minute or so’s walk from all 12 platforms.
There’s also some seating in that area.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2025-03-10 19:10:59 UTC
Reply
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Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
14:15:06 on
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 09:47:53 +0000, Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronisi
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then
narrows the window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross,
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with
late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the suburban
platforms.
It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing from
one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
I checked it out yesterday, and found that the ideal spot is within
about a minute's walk of all 12 platforms. It's even
closer than I had thought.
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
There’s a perfect view of the nearby departure board from there,
particularly from my recommended position upstairs. But, of course, as we
now know, you can use the NR app instead, even if you can’t see the board,
as the content is the same.
I don't carry my phone in my hand permanently, like many people seem
to. And when travelling usually have luggage, and a picnic, so not
necessarily a spare hand anyway.
Well, there’s an excellent view of the departure board from the perfect
waiting area, which is only a minute or so’s walk from all 12 platforms.
There’s also some seating in that area.
If by that you mean upstairs, then no thanks with luggage. (Or a
wheelchair).
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2025-03-10 21:50:58 UTC
Reply
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
14:15:06 on
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 09:47:53 +0000, Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronisi
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then
narrows the window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time.
The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross,
how, exactly?
The short time you complained about is primarily a Euston
problem, not
Kings Cross.
But it is Kings Cross where they intend to implement the new policy
apparently.
Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with
late platform
announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which offers a
quick route to all the platforms.
Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the suburban
platforms.
It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing from
one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
I checked it out yesterday, and found that the ideal spot is within
about a minute's walk of all 12 platforms. It's even
closer than I had thought.
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
There’s a perfect view of the nearby departure board from there,
particularly from my recommended position upstairs. But, of course, as we
now know, you can use the NR app instead, even if you can’t see the board,
as the content is the same.
I don't carry my phone in my hand permanently, like many people seem
to. And when travelling usually have luggage, and a picnic, so not
necessarily a spare hand anyway.
Well, there’s an excellent view of the departure board from the perfect
waiting area, which is only a minute or so’s walk from all 12 platforms.
There’s also some seating in that area.
If by that you mean upstairs, then no thanks with luggage. (Or a
wheelchair).
There’s escalators and lifts.
Roland Perry
2025-03-11 07:47:12 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
There’s a perfect view of the nearby departure board from there,
particularly from my recommended position upstairs. But, of course, as we
now know, you can use the NR app instead, even if you can’t see the board,
as the content is the same.
I don't carry my phone in my hand permanently, like many people seem
to. And when travelling usually have luggage, and a picnic, so not
necessarily a spare hand anyway.
Well, there’s an excellent view of the departure board from the perfect
waiting area, which is only a minute or so’s walk from all 12 platforms.
There’s also some seating in that area.
If by that you mean upstairs, then no thanks with luggage. (Or a
wheelchair).
There’s escalators and lifts.
Which increases the time involved, dear Liza. There's also signage
saying don't take luggage on the escalators.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2025-03-11 10:30:10 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
There’s a perfect view of the nearby departure board from there,
particularly from my recommended position upstairs. But, of course, as we
now know, you can use the NR app instead, even if you can’t see the board,
as the content is the same.
I don't carry my phone in my hand permanently, like many people seem
to. And when travelling usually have luggage, and a picnic, so not
necessarily a spare hand anyway.
Well, there’s an excellent view of the departure board from the perfect
waiting area, which is only a minute or so’s walk from all 12 platforms.
There’s also some seating in that area.
If by that you mean upstairs, then no thanks with luggage. (Or a
wheelchair).
There’s escalators and lifts.
Which increases the time involved, dear Liza. There's also signage
saying don't take luggage on the escalators.
My ‘minute or so’ timing to all the platforms includes the time on the
escalator. Just curious, do you routinely bring large suitcases when
travelling from Ely or Cambridge to London? I routinely take full-size
suitcases on escalators without problems. And do you still push a
wheelchair?

Anyway, you’re obviously not grateful for my very useful tip, so let’s
leave it at that.
Tweed
2025-03-11 10:46:17 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
There’s a perfect view of the nearby departure board from there,
particularly from my recommended position upstairs. But, of course, as we
now know, you can use the NR app instead, even if you can’t see the board,
as the content is the same.
I don't carry my phone in my hand permanently, like many people seem
to. And when travelling usually have luggage, and a picnic, so not
necessarily a spare hand anyway.
Well, there’s an excellent view of the departure board from the perfect
waiting area, which is only a minute or so’s walk from all 12 platforms.
There’s also some seating in that area.
If by that you mean upstairs, then no thanks with luggage. (Or a
wheelchair).
There’s escalators and lifts.
Which increases the time involved, dear Liza. There's also signage
saying don't take luggage on the escalators.
My ‘minute or so’ timing to all the platforms includes the time on the
escalator. Just curious, do you routinely bring large suitcases when
travelling from Ely or Cambridge to London? I routinely take full-size
suitcases on escalators without problems. And do you still push a
wheelchair?
Anyway, you’re obviously not grateful for my very useful tip, so let’s
leave it at that.
The railway and the Underground have a recent “thing” about not taking
luggage on escalators. There is some point to this as a large case let
loose can cause havoc and injury. The problem is that the official
alternative, a lift, is usually pitiably under capacity (both in size and
frequency). And nobody has really solved the problem in a busy transport
location of someone nipping into the lift as the doors start to close thus
trigging another open and close cycle.
Recliner
2025-03-11 11:05:07 UTC
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Post by Tweed
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
There’s a perfect view of the nearby departure board from there,
particularly from my recommended position upstairs. But, of course, as we
now know, you can use the NR app instead, even if you can’t see the board,
as the content is the same.
I don't carry my phone in my hand permanently, like many people seem
to. And when travelling usually have luggage, and a picnic, so not
necessarily a spare hand anyway.
Well, there’s an excellent view of the departure board from the perfect
waiting area, which is only a minute or so’s walk from all 12 platforms.
There’s also some seating in that area.
If by that you mean upstairs, then no thanks with luggage. (Or a
wheelchair).
There’s escalators and lifts.
Which increases the time involved, dear Liza. There's also signage
saying don't take luggage on the escalators.
My ‘minute or so’ timing to all the platforms includes the time on the
escalator. Just curious, do you routinely bring large suitcases when
travelling from Ely or Cambridge to London? I routinely take full-size
suitcases on escalators without problems. And do you still push a
wheelchair?
Anyway, you’re obviously not grateful for my very useful tip, so let’s
leave it at that.
The railway and the Underground have a recent “thing” about not taking
luggage on escalators. There is some point to this as a large case let
loose can cause havoc and injury.
They have signs to that effect, but nobody has actually ever stopped me
from doing it. I’ve even successfully used escalators with two wheelie
suitcases and a backpack.

The one place where it really pays not to use the escalator is at Heathrow
T5 from the stations to departures level, whether or not you have luggage.
That’s a quick, direct lift ride, but multiple flights of escalator, as the
departures level is several floors up in the terminal.
Post by Tweed
The problem is that the official
alternative, a lift, is usually pitiably under capacity (both in size and
frequency). And nobody has really solved the problem in a busy transport
location of someone nipping into the lift as the doors start to close thus
trigging another open and close cycle.
Yes, recently at Waterloo, I tried to dutifully use the lift from the
Jubilee platform level, but eventually gave up and went back to the
escalator.
Roland Perry
2025-03-11 11:46:23 UTC
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Post by Recliner
The one place where it really pays not to use the escalator is at Heathrow
T5 from the stations to departures level, whether or not you have luggage.
That’s a quick, direct lift ride,
As there is also from Kings Cross classic ticket hall to Northern Line
(two escalators).
Post by Recliner
but multiple flights of escalator, as the
departures level is several floors up in the terminal.
Or Stansted with multiple ramps.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2025-03-11 14:53:36 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
The one place where it really pays not to use the escalator is at Heathrow
T5 from the stations to departures level, whether or not you have luggage.
That’s a quick, direct lift ride,
As there is also from Kings Cross classic ticket hall to Northern Line
(two escalators).
Post by Recliner
but multiple flights of escalator, as the
departures level is several floors up in the terminal.
Or Stansted with multiple ramps.
Stansted is unusual for a large airport terminal in that departures are on the same level as arrivals. More typically,
departures are two floors higher, making the escalator journey up painfully long.
Roland Perry
2025-03-11 15:50:35 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
The one place where it really pays not to use the escalator is at Heathrow
T5 from the stations to departures level, whether or not you have luggage.
That’s a quick, direct lift ride,
As there is also from Kings Cross classic ticket hall to Northern Line
(two escalators).
Post by Recliner
but multiple flights of escalator, as the
departures level is several floors up in the terminal.
Or Stansted with multiple ramps.
Stansted is unusual for a large airport terminal in that departures are
on the same level as arrivals. More typically,
departures are two floors higher, making the escalator journey up painfully long.
My point was that the trip from the station, up ramps, to the departures
area, is also painfully long.
--
Roland Perry
Trolleybus
2025-03-12 09:35:06 UTC
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On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 14:53:36 +0000, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
The one place where it really pays not to use the escalator is at Heathrow
T5 from the stations to departures level, whether or not you have luggage.
That’s a quick, direct lift ride,
As there is also from Kings Cross classic ticket hall to Northern Line
(two escalators).
Post by Recliner
but multiple flights of escalator, as the
departures level is several floors up in the terminal.
Or Stansted with multiple ramps.
Stansted is unusual for a large airport terminal in that departures are on the same level as arrivals. More typically,
departures are two floors higher, making the escalator journey up painfully long.
Stansted also has two lift banks linking railway station, car park and
bus station and shuttle buses/terminal.
Roland Perry
2025-03-12 10:37:26 UTC
Reply
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Post by Trolleybus
On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 14:53:36 +0000, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
The one place where it really pays not to use the escalator is at Heathrow
T5 from the stations to departures level, whether or not you have luggage.
That’s a quick, direct lift ride,
As there is also from Kings Cross classic ticket hall to Northern Line
(two escalators).
Post by Recliner
but multiple flights of escalator, as the
departures level is several floors up in the terminal.
Or Stansted with multiple ramps.
Stansted is unusual for a large airport terminal in that departures
are on the same level as arrivals. More typically,
departures are two floors higher, making the escalator journey up painfully long.
Stansted also has two lift banks linking railway station, car park and
bus station and shuttle buses/terminal.
Which is the point I made earlier, thanks for confirming it. The
downside is that I'm sure at least one set of lifts has been barriered
off in the past, to force arriving passengers to go through the manual
ticket checking at the foot of the ramps.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2025-03-11 11:40:48 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
There’s a perfect view of the nearby departure board from there,
particularly from my recommended position upstairs. But, of course, as we
now know, you can use the NR app instead, even if you can’t see the board,
as the content is the same.
I don't carry my phone in my hand permanently, like many people seem
to. And when travelling usually have luggage, and a picnic, so not
necessarily a spare hand anyway.
Well, there’s an excellent view of the departure board from the perfect
waiting area, which is only a minute or so’s walk from all 12 platforms.
There’s also some seating in that area.
If by that you mean upstairs, then no thanks with luggage. (Or a
wheelchair).
There’s escalators and lifts.
Which increases the time involved, dear Liza. There's also signage
saying don't take luggage on the escalators.
My ‘minute or so’ timing to all the platforms includes the time on the
escalator. Just
With luggage, it be the lift, and sometimes there's a queue.
Post by Recliner
curious, do you routinely bring large suitcases when travelling from
Ely or Cambridge to London?
Yes, actually I do relatively often, if not routinely. (Adverbs can be
troublesome). Over half my train trips probably.

For example I'm flying to Spain later in the year and while that will be
via Thameslink to Gatwick, rather than changing at Kings Cross [like I
did when going to Blackpool last autumn], I'll have a checked bag for a
week's stay and bringing back new toys, my laptop bag and a picnic in a
carrier bag (no French Hens or Partridges in Pear Trees).
Post by Recliner
I routinely take full-size
IATA hand baggage, or bigger?
Post by Recliner
suitcases on escalators without problems.
The signage recommends you don't.
Post by Recliner
And do you still push a wheelchair?
Not at the moment, but I did for two years. And it could easily happen
again. Also, I'm not the only traveller to use Kings Cross.
Post by Recliner
Anyway, you’re obviously not grateful for my very useful tip, so let’s
leave it at that.
I'm grateful for the way you documented your suggestion, but all it did
was reinforce my belief that I'm not the sort of person it applies to.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2025-03-11 12:09:46 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
There’s a perfect view of the nearby departure board from there,
particularly from my recommended position upstairs. But, of course, as we
now know, you can use the NR app instead, even if you can’t see the board,
as the content is the same.
I don't carry my phone in my hand permanently, like many people seem
to. And when travelling usually have luggage, and a picnic, so not
necessarily a spare hand anyway.
Well, there’s an excellent view of the departure board from the perfect
waiting area, which is only a minute or so’s walk from all 12 platforms.
There’s also some seating in that area.
If by that you mean upstairs, then no thanks with luggage. (Or a
wheelchair).
There’s escalators and lifts.
Which increases the time involved, dear Liza. There's also signage
saying don't take luggage on the escalators.
My ‘minute or so’ timing to all the platforms includes the time on the
escalator. Just
With luggage, it be the lift, and sometimes there's a queue.
Post by Recliner
curious, do you routinely bring large suitcases when travelling from
Ely or Cambridge to London?
Yes, actually I do relatively often, if not routinely. (Adverbs can be
troublesome). Over half my train trips probably.
For example I'm flying to Spain later in the year and while that will be
via Thameslink to Gatwick, rather than changing at Kings Cross [like I
did when going to Blackpool last autumn], I'll have a checked bag for a
week's stay and bringing back new toys, my laptop bag and a picnic in a
carrier bag (no French Hens or Partridges in Pear Trees).
So you won’t actually be taking a suitcase through Kings Cross.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
I routinely take full-size
IATA hand baggage, or bigger?
I said a full-size suitcase, not hand luggage. My current main suitcase is
a 77 cm - 97/110 litre spinner. I have no trouble taking it on escalators,
and it would not be a problem taking it up to the Kings Cross terrace area,
whether using the escalators or lifts.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
suitcases on escalators without problems.
The signage recommends you don't.
The signage also recommends that I must carry a dog and all my possessions,
but those recommendations aren’t enforced, either.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
And do you still push a wheelchair?
Not at the moment, but I did for two years. And it could easily happen
again.
So not an issue today, which is what we’re talking about. You’re just
trying to come up with irrelevant objections, rather than thanking me for
the tip.
Post by Roland Perry
Also, I'm not the only traveller to use Kings Cross.
Of course not, but why is that relevant?
Roland Perry
2025-03-11 13:35:25 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
There’s a perfect view of the nearby departure board from there,
particularly from my recommended position upstairs. But, of course, as we
now know, you can use the NR app instead, even if you can’t
see the board,
as the content is the same.
I don't carry my phone in my hand permanently, like many people seem
to. And when travelling usually have luggage, and a picnic, so not
necessarily a spare hand anyway.
Well, there’s an excellent view of the departure board from the perfect
waiting area, which is only a minute or so’s walk from all 12 platforms.
There’s also some seating in that area.
If by that you mean upstairs, then no thanks with luggage. (Or a
wheelchair).
There’s escalators and lifts.
Which increases the time involved, dear Liza. There's also signage
saying don't take luggage on the escalators.
My ‘minute or so’ timing to all the platforms includes the time on the
escalator. Just
With luggage, it be the lift, and sometimes there's a queue.
Post by Recliner
curious, do you routinely bring large suitcases when travelling from
Ely or Cambridge to London?
Yes, actually I do relatively often, if not routinely. (Adverbs can be
troublesome). Over half my train trips probably.
For example I'm flying to Spain later in the year and while that will be
via Thameslink to Gatwick, rather than changing at Kings Cross [like I
did when going to Blackpool last autumn], I'll have a checked bag for a
week's stay and bringing back new toys, my laptop bag and a picnic in a
carrier bag (no French Hens or Partridges in Pear Trees).
So you won’t actually be taking a suitcase through Kings Cross.
Not on that one isolated trip to Spain via Gatwick. I did at the end of
last year on the way to Blackpool. And on several other trips of recent
memory.

But not on my three most recent trips to Spain, because they were from
Stansted (but again by train).
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
I routinely take full-size
IATA hand baggage, or bigger?
I said a full-size suitcase, not hand luggage. My current main suitcase is
a 77 cm - 97/110 litre spinner. I have no trouble taking it on escalators,
and it would not be a problem taking it up to the Kings Cross terrace area,
whether using the escalators or lifts.
Apart from the signage telling you not to.
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
suitcases on escalators without problems.
The signage recommends you don't.
The signage also recommends that I must carry a dog and all my possessions,
but those recommendations aren’t enforced, either.
Oh haha.
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
And do you still push a wheelchair?
Not at the moment, but I did for two years. And it could easily happen
again.
So not an issue today, which is what we’re talking about.
I'm not the only traveller using Kings Cross.
Post by Recliner
You’re just trying to come up with irrelevant objections, rather than
thanking me for the tip.
I did thank you for the tip (which I knew about anyway).
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Also, I'm not the only traveller to use Kings Cross.
Of course not, but why is that relevant?
Because other people might think that you tip was aimed at them, and not
solely at myself.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2025-03-11 14:31:21 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms
might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food
area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR
platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
There’s a perfect view of the nearby departure board from there,
particularly from my recommended position upstairs. But, of course, as we
now know, you can use the NR app instead, even if you can’t
see the board,
as the content is the same.
I don't carry my phone in my hand permanently, like many people seem
to. And when travelling usually have luggage, and a picnic, so not
necessarily a spare hand anyway.
Well, there’s an excellent view of the departure board from the perfect
waiting area, which is only a minute or so’s walk from all 12 platforms.
There’s also some seating in that area.
If by that you mean upstairs, then no thanks with luggage. (Or a
wheelchair).
There’s escalators and lifts.
Which increases the time involved, dear Liza. There's also signage
saying don't take luggage on the escalators.
My ‘minute or so’ timing to all the platforms includes the time on the
escalator. Just
With luggage, it be the lift, and sometimes there's a queue.
Post by Recliner
curious, do you routinely bring large suitcases when travelling from
Ely or Cambridge to London?
Yes, actually I do relatively often, if not routinely. (Adverbs can be
troublesome). Over half my train trips probably.
For example I'm flying to Spain later in the year and while that will be
via Thameslink to Gatwick, rather than changing at Kings Cross [like I
did when going to Blackpool last autumn], I'll have a checked bag for a
week's stay and bringing back new toys, my laptop bag and a picnic in a
carrier bag (no French Hens or Partridges in Pear Trees).
So you won’t actually be taking a suitcase through Kings Cross.
Not on that one isolated trip to Spain via Gatwick. I did at the end of
last year on the way to Blackpool. And on several other trips of recent
memory.
It sounds like you had the equivalent of airline carry-on luggage. Why
would that be a problem on an escalator?
Post by Roland Perry
But not on my three most recent trips to Spain, because they were from
Stansted (but again by train).
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
I routinely take full-size
IATA hand baggage, or bigger?
I said a full-size suitcase, not hand luggage. My current main suitcase is
a 77 cm - 97/110 litre spinner. I have no trouble taking it on escalators,
and it would not be a problem taking it up to the Kings Cross terrace area,
whether using the escalators or lifts.
Apart from the signage telling you not to.
I’m not a child, and do know how to get around on public transport. I
thought the same applied to you, but apparently not.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
suitcases on escalators without problems.
The signage recommends you don't.
The signage also recommends that I must carry a dog and all my possessions,
but those recommendations aren’t enforced, either.
Oh haha.
Do you never take luggage on the Tube? Do you not then use the escalators?
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
And do you still push a wheelchair?
Not at the moment, but I did for two years. And it could easily happen
again.
So not an issue today, which is what we’re talking about.
I'm not the only traveller using Kings Cross.
Of course not, but why do you think that’s relevant?
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
You’re just trying to come up with irrelevant objections, rather than
thanking me for the tip.
I did thank you for the tip (which I knew about anyway).
You clearly didn’t, because you flatly denied that there was any such
location. That’s why I took the photos to prove that there are escalators
at both ends of the food terrace, and not just one end, as you insisted.

I’ve subsequently discovered that Mr Google had already published images
from the perfect location. You can see how close all the platforms are, as
well as the nearby escalators, and the perfect view of the departure board.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/LMWizmfmifLrvmwA6
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Also, I'm not the only traveller to use Kings Cross.
Of course not, but why is that relevant?
Because other people might think that you tip was aimed at them, and not
solely at myself.
Don’t flatter yourself. It’s not aimed solely at you.

It’s only relevant if people have no idea which platform will be used. I’d
rather know the likely platform in advance using RTT.
Roland Perry
2025-03-11 15:49:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
If someone really has no clue which of the 12 platforms
might be used,
and RTT can't help, then the perfect place to
wait is on the curved bridge between the first floor food
area and the
footbridge. You're then within a minute's walk of
all 12 platforms, with escalator and lift links down to them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/54370980878/in/dateposted-friend/
lightbox/
It's taken from near the base of the escalators from the
upper level,
with the curved footbridge above and the Nero
Express coffee stand. You can see the departure boards, with the
suburban platforms on the left. It's just inside the
station entrance close to the St Pancras Javelin, TL and EMR
platforms.
I'll remember to take my binoculars with me ;-)
There’s a perfect view of the nearby departure board from there,
particularly from my recommended position upstairs. But, of
course, as we
now know, you can use the NR app instead, even if you can’t
see the board,
as the content is the same.
I don't carry my phone in my hand permanently, like many people seem
to. And when travelling usually have luggage, and a picnic, so not
necessarily a spare hand anyway.
Well, there’s an excellent view of the departure board from the perfect
waiting area, which is only a minute or so’s walk from all 12 platforms.
There’s also some seating in that area.
If by that you mean upstairs, then no thanks with luggage. (Or a
wheelchair).
There’s escalators and lifts.
Which increases the time involved, dear Liza. There's also signage
saying don't take luggage on the escalators.
My ‘minute or so’ timing to all the platforms includes the time on the
escalator. Just
With luggage, it be the lift, and sometimes there's a queue.
Post by Recliner
curious, do you routinely bring large suitcases when travelling from
Ely or Cambridge to London?
Yes, actually I do relatively often, if not routinely. (Adverbs can be
troublesome). Over half my train trips probably.
For example I'm flying to Spain later in the year and while that will be
via Thameslink to Gatwick, rather than changing at Kings Cross [like I
did when going to Blackpool last autumn], I'll have a checked bag for a
week's stay and bringing back new toys, my laptop bag and a picnic in a
carrier bag (no French Hens or Partridges in Pear Trees).
So you won’t actually be taking a suitcase through Kings Cross.
Not on that one isolated trip to Spain via Gatwick. I did at the end of
last year on the way to Blackpool. And on several other trips of recent
memory.
It sounds like you had the equivalent of airline carry-on luggage. Why
would that be a problem on an escalator?
My Blackpool bag was a little bigger, and I had a large carrier bag and
a laptop bag. I also prefer to "hold the rail" on escalators, and to
heed warnings you feel entitled to ignore.
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
The signage also recommends that I must carry a dog and all my possessions,
but those recommendations aren’t enforced, either.
Oh haha.
Do you never take luggage on the Tube? Do you not then use the escalators?
I try very hard to only use lifts which is one reason I walked from
Kings Cross to Euston on the way to Blackpool because Euston doesn't
have them), and of course there isn't quite the rush to catch the tube
train leaving in five minutes.
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
And do you still push a wheelchair?
Not at the moment, but I did for two years. And it could easily happen
again.
So not an issue today, which is what we’re talking about.
I'm not the only traveller using Kings Cross.
Of course not, but why do you think that’s relevant?
Already answered: because others might think it was a tip of them too.
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
You’re just trying to come up with irrelevant objections, rather than
thanking me for the tip.
I did thank you for the tip (which I knew about anyway).
You clearly didn’t, because you flatly denied that there was any such
location.
I only denied the time from the location to the platforms, where I still
believe you are being over optimistic.
Post by Recliner
That’s why I took the photos to prove that there are escalators
at both ends of the food terrace, and not just one end, as you insisted.
Did I really insist on only one set? Don't remember that (not least
because I know there's two sets).
Post by Recliner
I’ve subsequently discovered that Mr Google had already published images
from the perfect location. You can see how close all the platforms are, as
well as the nearby escalators, and the perfect view of the departure board.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/LMWizmfmifLrvmwA6
It might be perfect for you, but not me. Why can't you accept that?
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Also, I'm not the only traveller to use Kings Cross.
Of course not, but why is that relevant?
Because other people might think that you tip was aimed at them, and not
solely at myself.
Don’t flatter yourself. It’s not aimed solely at you.
Oh dear, you've just contradicted yourself. If aimed at others, then my
phrase "I'm not the only traveller using Kings Cross" is completely
justified.
Post by Recliner
It’s only relevant if people have no idea which platform will be used. I’d
rather know the likely platform in advance using RTT.
Not so easy of you are trotting from the tube station, with both hands
full.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2025-03-11 16:59:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
That’s why I took the photos to prove that there are escalators
at both ends of the food terrace, and not just one end, as you insisted.
Did I really insist on only one set? Don't remember that (not least
because I know there's two sets).
This must have been a different Roland Perry then:

Recliner: Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with late
platform announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which
offers a quick route to all the platforms.

Perry: Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.

Recliner: Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the
suburban platforms.

Perry: It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing
from one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.


As I’ve now established, it’s a minute’s walk.
Roland Perry
2025-03-11 18:06:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
That’s why I took the photos to prove that there are escalators
at both ends of the food terrace, and not just one end, as you insisted.
Did I really insist on only one set? Don't remember that (not least
because I know there's two sets).
Recliner: Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with late
platform announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which
offers a quick route to all the platforms.
Perry: Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Recliner: Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the
suburban platforms.
There is absolutely nothing there which claims, insists or implies, that
there's only one set of escalators. Your argument is unravelling.
Post by Recliner
Perry: It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing
from one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
As I’ve now established, it’s a minute’s walk.
Not if you have baggage, and especially if needing to use a lift because
the escalators are unsafe and/or dis-recommended.

One of your pictures showed downstairs, and impossible to sprint
(without baggage) to a train on Platforms 0-7 in a minute. Not just the
distance, but other people and the ticket barriers in the way.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2025-03-11 22:20:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
That’s why I took the photos to prove that there are escalators
at both ends of the food terrace, and not just one end, as you insisted.
Did I really insist on only one set? Don't remember that (not least
because I know there's two sets).
Recliner: Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston with late
platform announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot to stand which
offers a quick route to all the platforms.
Perry: Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Recliner: Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the
suburban platforms.
There is absolutely nothing there which claims, insists or implies, that
there's only one set of escalators. Your argument is unravelling.
That’s because you cunningly (and typically) deleted the comment you now
deny:

Perry: It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing
from one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Perry: It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing
from one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
As I’ve now established, it’s a minute’s walk.
Not if you have baggage, and especially if needing to use a lift because
the escalators are unsafe and/or dis-recommended.
One of your pictures showed downstairs, and impossible to sprint
(without baggage) to a train on Platforms 0-7 in a minute. Not just the
distance, but other people and the ticket barriers in the way.
It’s less than a minute’s walk from my recommended location via the curving
footbridge to platforms 0-8. And the same down the escalator to platforms
9-11. And the Google Streetview pictures show plenty of passengers with
baggage waiting on the terrace.
Roland Perry
2025-03-12 06:39:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
That’s why I took the photos to prove that there are escalators
at both ends of the food terrace, and not just one end, as you insisted.
Did I really insist on only one set? Don't remember that (not least
because I know there's two sets).
Recliner: Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston
with late platform announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot
to stand which offers a quick route to all the platforms.
Perry: Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Recliner: Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the
suburban platforms.
There is absolutely nothing there which claims, insists or implies, that
there's only one set of escalators. Your argument is unravelling.
That’s because you cunningly (and typically) deleted the comment you now
Perry: It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing
from one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Perry: It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing
from one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
Which contains nothing that claims, insists or implies, there's only one
set of escalators.
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
As I’ve now established, it’s a minute’s walk.
Not if you have baggage, and especially if needing to use a lift because
the escalators are unsafe and/or dis-recommended.
One of your pictures showed downstairs, and impossible to sprint
(without baggage) to a train on Platforms 0-7 in a minute. Not just the
distance, but other people and the ticket barriers in the way.
It’s less than a minute’s walk from my recommended location
Some confusion here, is that recommended location upstairs or
downstairs? The picture I have in mind was the one with the departure
boards in the distance from the ground floor concourse.
Post by Recliner
via the curving footbridge to platforms 0-8.
I disagree, it'll take at least a minute to go down the escalators to
the platforms, more to use the lift if you have baggage. Then there's
the barriers to negotiate first. Which will take a while if there's a
crowd, especially if they have bags too.
Post by Recliner
And the same down the escalator to platforms 9-11.
Again the escalator/lift conundrum, and the 9-11 gateline takes more
than a minute on its own (more in rush hour when it can be four deep
across all gates, due to the infamous late announcing of platform
numbers).
Post by Recliner
And the Google Streetview pictures show plenty of passengers with
baggage waiting on the terrace.
And you seem to be forgetting the time taken to get up to the terrace,
which could be fatal if the train is due to leave less than five minutes
after you entered the building from the tube station or square.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2025-03-12 10:45:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
That’s why I took the photos to prove that there are escalators
at both ends of the food terrace, and not just one end, as you insisted.
Did I really insist on only one set? Don't remember that (not least
because I know there's two sets).
Recliner: Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston
with late platform announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot
to stand which offers a quick route to all the platforms.
Perry: Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Recliner: Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the
suburban platforms.
There is absolutely nothing there which claims, insists or implies, that
there's only one set of escalators. Your argument is unravelling.
That’s because you cunningly (and typically) deleted the comment you now
Perry: It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing
from one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Perry: It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing
from one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
Which contains nothing that claims, insists or implies, there's only one
set of escalators.
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
As I’ve now established, it’s a minute’s walk.
Not if you have baggage, and especially if needing to use a lift because
the escalators are unsafe and/or dis-recommended.
One of your pictures showed downstairs, and impossible to sprint
(without baggage) to a train on Platforms 0-7 in a minute. Not just the
distance, but other people and the ticket barriers in the way.
It’s less than a minute’s walk from my recommended location
Some confusion here, is that recommended location upstairs or
downstairs? The picture I have in mind was the one with the departure
boards in the distance from the ground floor concourse.
As I’ve repeatedly said, if you really have absolutely no clue which
platform might be used, then upstairs is better, in the Google Streetview
location I linked.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GRuyER4aQywUNhYP6

Including the time on the escalator, it’s within a minute’s walk to all 12
platforms. It’s perhaps 15 seconds walk from the foot of the escalator to
gates 9-11, and well under a minute’s walk along the footbridge to
platforms 0-8. Clearly, I’m not the only one who’s worked the best
location, as you can see lots of other people on the terrace, many with
luggage or push chairs. Do you think they all used the lifts?

As always, you seem to find daily life far more difficult than normal
people do. Or perhaps you just like being difficult?
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
via the curving footbridge to platforms 0-8.
I disagree, it'll take at least a minute to go down the escalators to
the platforms, more to use the lift if you have baggage. Then there's
the barriers to negotiate first. Which will take a while if there's a
crowd, especially if they have bags too.
As always, you’re just inventing hypothetical excuses. I’ve actually tested
it.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
And the same down the escalator to platforms 9-11.
Again the escalator/lift conundrum,
No conundrum. If my luggage is suitable for getting on to a train, then I
can certainly take it on an escalator with no problems. The Eurostar moving
ramps up to the platform are more tricky, as wheelie bags want to roll back
down.
Post by Roland Perry
and the 9-11 gateline takes more
than a minute on its own (more in rush hour when it can be four deep
across all gates, due to the infamous late announcing of platform
numbers).
Post by Recliner
And the Google Streetview pictures show plenty of passengers with
baggage waiting on the terrace.
And you seem to be forgetting the time taken to get up to the terrace,
which could be fatal if the train is due to leave less than five minutes
after you entered the building from the tube station or square.
You’d obviously go straight to the platform then, wouldn’t you? This
advice is for people who get there well before the platform has been
announced, and have no clue which one it will be.

I would expect anyone here to have used RTT to know in advance the
scheduled platform, and hopefully an updated one if necessary. Again, you
seem to suffer from unique difficulties in using a mobile phone, but normal
people don’t.
Roland Perry
2025-03-12 12:10:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
That’s why I took the photos to prove that there are escalators
at both ends of the food terrace, and not just one end, as you insisted.
Did I really insist on only one set? Don't remember that (not least
because I know there's two sets).
Recliner: Yes, because it doesn’t have the same problem as Euston
with late platform announcements. Kings Cross also has a good spot
to stand which offers a quick route to all the platforms.
Perry: Not really. The barriers for the suburban and main platforms are at
opposite ends of the flying saucer.
Recliner: Use the footbridge. The escalator up to it is close to the
suburban platforms.
There is absolutely nothing there which claims, insists or implies, that
there's only one set of escalators. Your argument is unravelling.
That’s because you cunningly (and typically) deleted the comment you now
Perry: It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing
from one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Perry: It's not that close, and if your train is announced as departing
from one of the suburban platforms, it's a bit of a trek.
Which contains nothing that claims, insists or implies, there's only one
set of escalators.
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
As I’ve now established, it’s a minute’s walk.
Not if you have baggage, and especially if needing to use a lift because
the escalators are unsafe and/or dis-recommended.
One of your pictures showed downstairs, and impossible to sprint
(without baggage) to a train on Platforms 0-7 in a minute. Not just the
distance, but other people and the ticket barriers in the way.
It’s less than a minute’s walk from my recommended location
Some confusion here, is that recommended location upstairs or
downstairs? The picture I have in mind was the one with the departure
boards in the distance from the ground floor concourse.
As I’ve repeatedly said, if you really have absolutely no clue which
platform might be used, then upstairs is better,
I think that's debateable (but bring binoculars)
Post by Recliner
in the Google Streetview location I linked.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GRuyER4aQywUNhYP6
Including the time on the escalator, it’s within a minute’s walk to all 12
platforms. It’s perhaps 15 seconds walk from the foot of the escalator to
gates 9-11,
Which isn't the platform, but let's park that for now.
Post by Recliner
and well under a minute’s walk along the footbridge to
platforms 0-8.
I simply don't believe that. And you've forgotten the time to get
through the barriers and down from the bridge to P0-8.
Post by Recliner
Clearly, I’m not the only one who’s worked the best
location, as you can see lots of other people on the terrace,
lots of people are clearly capable of making non-optimal decisions.
Post by Recliner
many with luggage or push chairs. Do you think they all used the lifts?
If they didn't, they are ignoring the instructions not to!
Post by Recliner
As always, you seem to find daily life far more difficult than normal
people do. Or perhaps you just like being difficult?
I'm just being practical, whereas you are being hopelessly
overoptimistic.
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
via the curving footbridge to platforms 0-8.
I disagree, it'll take at least a minute to go down the escalators to
the platforms, more to use the lift if you have baggage. Then there's
the barriers to negotiate first. Which will take a while if there's a
crowd, especially if they have bags too.
As always, you’re just inventing hypothetical excuses. I’ve actually tested
it.
So have I, many times, with different results. Were any of your tests in
the evening rush hour?
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
And the same down the escalator to platforms 9-11.
Again the escalator/lift conundrum,
No conundrum. If my luggage is suitable for getting on to a train, then I
can certainly take it on an escalator with no problems.
Not according to Network Rail.
Post by Recliner
The Eurostar moving ramps up to the platform are more tricky, as
wheelie bags want to roll back down.
Post by Roland Perry
and the 9-11 gateline takes more
than a minute on its own (more in rush hour when it can be four deep
across all gates, due to the infamous late announcing of platform
numbers).
Post by Recliner
And the Google Streetview pictures show plenty of passengers with
baggage waiting on the terrace.
And you seem to be forgetting the time taken to get up to the terrace,
which could be fatal if the train is due to leave less than five minutes
after you entered the building from the tube station or square.
You’d obviously go straight to the platform then, wouldn’t you?
Not if you don't know which one it is!
Post by Recliner
This advice is for people who get there well before the platform has
been announced, and have no clue which one it will be.
I would expect anyone here to have used RTT to know in advance the
scheduled platform, and hopefully an updated one if necessary. Again, you
seem to suffer from unique difficulties in using a mobile phone, but normal
people don’t.
I don't think I'm unique with having difficulty running RTT on a mobile
phone, while walking quickly and pulling two suitcases.
--
Roland Perry
Certes
2025-02-10 17:42:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bo
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
Assuming you mean Euston, the idea is to leave passengers behind rather
than having them board as the doors are closing. This will speed up
turnaround in the longer term by deterring passengers from rail travel.
Roland Perry
2025-02-10 18:35:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Certes
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/06/how-patronising-rail-bo
sses-face-anger-over-plan-to-hide-train-departure-times
The elephant in the room is that if they persist in only telling pax
which platform it is, ten minutes before departure, then it narrows the
window significantly.
They've already said that they intend to extend that time. The basic
problem is that Euston is short of platforms, thanks to the loss of
some (how many?) to the HS2 site, so trains have to minimise their
turnaround times.
And introducing this three minute policy at Kings Cross, solves that
how, exactly?
Assuming you mean Euston,
No! No! The story is about KINGS CROSS!!!
Post by Certes
the idea is to leave passengers behind rather than having them board as
the doors are closing. This will speed up turnaround in the longer
term by deterring passengers from rail travel.
Hmm.
--
Roland Perry
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