WW2 bomb halts Eurostar GdN services

[Recliner]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cz6l257gnjqt

Eurostar services from Paris have been cancelled for the rest of the day
after an unexploded World War Two bomb was found near Gare du Nord station.

The bomb was found "in the middle of the tracks" in the area of Saint-Denis
during overnight works, local media reports.

It's not unusual to discover unexploded wartime bombs in areas like this,
reports Hugh Schofield from Paris.

Local train services are also disrupted and large crowds are seen waiting
for updates in Gare du Nord and London's St Pancras station.

———-

And from the Telegraph:

All Eurostar services between London and Paris have been cancelled on
Friday after an unexploded Second World War bomb was found in the middle of
the tracks in France overnight.

Thousands of passengers are facing disruption as police work to disable the
ordnance, which was discovered by engineers a mile and a half away from the
station.

Gare du Nord station has closed and Eurostar has asked passengers to change
their travel plans. It remains unclear exactly how long disruption is
expected to last, though some local train services in Paris could resume by
mid-afternoon, according to authorities.

Fridays are often the busiest day of the week on the Eurostar, as
holidaymakers head on weekend breaks and workers return home.

Large queues have formed at St Pancras as passengers try to work out how
they can continue their journeys.

Five of the six flights that British Airways is operating from Heathrow to
Paris Charles de Gaulle on Friday after midday are full.

A ticket for the one with spare seats, which departs at 6.20pm, is being
sold for £264.

Some passengers have opted to travel to Lille instead, where services are
unaffected. From there, Paris is a three-hour bus ride.

Eurostar said affected passengers can exchange their ticket for free to
travel at a different time or date in the same travel class.

It added that it “sincerely apologises for the disruption and understands
the inconvenience this may cause”.

[Certes]

Post by Recliner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cz6l257gnjqt
Eurostar services from Paris have been cancelled for the rest of the day
after an unexploded World War Two bomb was found near Gare du Nord station.
The bomb was found "in the middle of the tracks" in the area of Saint-Denis
during overnight works, local media reports.
It's not unusual to discover unexploded wartime bombs in areas like this,
reports Hugh Schofield from Paris.
Local train services are also disrupted and large crowds are seen waiting
for updates in Gare du Nord and London's St Pancras station.
———-
All Eurostar services between London and Paris have been cancelled on
Friday after an unexploded Second World War bomb was found in the middle of
the tracks in France overnight.
Thousands of passengers are facing disruption as police work to disable the
ordnance, which was discovered by engineers a mile and a half away from the
station.
Gare du Nord station has closed and Eurostar has asked passengers to change
their travel plans. It remains unclear exactly how long disruption is
expected to last, though some local train services in Paris could resume by
mid-afternoon, according to authorities.
Fridays are often the busiest day of the week on the Eurostar, as
holidaymakers head on weekend breaks and workers return home.
Large queues have formed at St Pancras as passengers try to work out how
they can continue their journeys.
Five of the six flights that British Airways is operating from Heathrow to
Paris Charles de Gaulle on Friday after midday are full.
A ticket for the one with spare seats, which departs at 6.20pm, is being
sold for £264.
Some passengers have opted to travel to Lille instead, where services are
unaffected. From there, Paris is a three-hour bus ride.
Eurostar said affected passengers can exchange their ticket for free to
travel at a different time or date in the same travel class.
It added that it “sincerely apologises for the disruption and understands
the inconvenience this may cause”.

If the berme is in Saint-Denis, why aren't they diverting the trains to
another Paris station, even if it's Gare de Disney for a local shuttle
to the city?

[Ulf_Kutzner]

Post by Certes
If the berme is in Saint-Denis, why aren't they diverting the trains to
another Paris station, even if it's Gare de Disney for a local shuttle
to the city?

Might be a question of route knowledge and the need
of running empty trains back to the UK or at least
as far as Lille.

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 11:34:07 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by Certes
If the berme is in Saint-Denis, why aren't they diverting the trains to
another Paris station, even if it's Gare de Disney for a local shuttle
to the city?

Might be a question of route knowledge and the need
of running empty trains back to the UK or at least
as far as Lille.

Run the trains to Lille, bus to Paris or SNCF to some other Paris station.
At least thats what a sensible organisation would do but I think its fair to
say Eurostar isn't one of them. Any problem and everything grinds to a halt and
they sit on their hands.

[Ulf_Kutzner]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 11:34:07 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by Certes
If the berme is in Saint-Denis, why aren't they diverting the trains to
another Paris station, even if it's Gare de Disney for a local shuttle
to the city?

Might be a question of route knowledge and the need
of running empty trains back to the UK or at least
as far as Lille.

Run the trains to Lille, bus to Paris or SNCF to some other Paris station.

SNCF on the same ticket?

And I guess they struggle to transport their
own passengers.

Not sure for non-LGV routing via Ormoy-Villiers
but won't be able to take many trains.

Well, City of Saint-Denis starts short of
Boulevard péripherique, so the alternative
routing might be concerned, too, and complete
closure of GdN may be understood the way
the problem/bomb is located in the very
South of Saint Denis.

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 12:11:58 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 11:34:07 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by Certes
If the berme is in Saint-Denis, why aren't they diverting the trains to
another Paris station, even if it's Gare de Disney for a local shuttle
to the city?

Might be a question of route knowledge and the need
of running empty trains back to the UK or at least
as far as Lille.

Run the trains to Lille, bus to Paris or SNCF to some other Paris station.

SNCF on the same ticket?

SNCF is the majority shareholder in Eurostar so why not.

Post by Ulf_Kutzner
And I guess they struggle to transport their
own passengers.
Not sure for non-LGV routing via Ormoy-Villiers
but won't be able to take many trains.
Well, City of Saint-Denis starts short of
Boulevard péripherique, so the alternative
routing might be concerned, too, and complete
closure of GdN may be understood the way
the problem/bomb is located in the very
South of Saint Denis.

Well , whatever the solution its got to be better than leaving people in
London. At least get them as far as Lille then they can decide what to do
from there even if its getting a taxi.

[Recliner]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 12:11:58 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 11:34:07 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by Certes
If the berme is in Saint-Denis, why aren't they diverting the trains to
another Paris station, even if it's Gare de Disney for a local shuttle
to the city?

Might be a question of route knowledge and the need
of running empty trains back to the UK or at least
as far as Lille.

Run the trains to Lille, bus to Paris or SNCF to some other Paris station.

SNCF on the same ticket?

SNCF is the majority shareholder in Eurostar so why not.

Post by Ulf_Kutzner
And I guess they struggle to transport their
own passengers.
Not sure for non-LGV routing via Ormoy-Villiers
but won't be able to take many trains.
Well, City of Saint-Denis starts short of
Boulevard péripherique, so the alternative
routing might be concerned, too, and complete
closure of GdN may be understood the way
the problem/bomb is located in the very
South of Saint Denis.

Well , whatever the solution its got to be better than leaving people in
London. At least get them as far as Lille then they can decide what to do
from there even if its getting a taxi.

It's not just London that's affected, of course. The Eurostar trains from Brussels are also cancelled, and well as any
SNCF TGVs from Lille. That could be an awful lot of people trying to get from Lille to Paris by bus.

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Fri, 07 Mar 2025 14:31:26 +0000

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Well , whatever the solution its got to be better than leaving people in
London. At least get them as far as Lille then they can decide what to do
from there even if its getting a taxi.

It's not just London that's affected, of course. The Eurostar trains from
Brussels are also cancelled, and well as any
SNCF TGVs from Lille. That could be an awful lot of people trying to get from
Lille to Paris by bus.

Better than trying to get from London to Paris by bus.

[Ulf_Kutzner]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 07 Mar 2025 14:31:26 +0000

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Well , whatever the solution its got to be better than leaving people in
London. At least get them as far as Lille then they can decide what to do
from there even if its getting a taxi.

It's not just London that's affected, of course. The Eurostar trains from
Brussels are also cancelled, and well as any
SNCF TGVs from Lille. That could be an awful lot of people trying to get from
Lille to Paris by bus.

Better than trying to get from London to Paris by bus.

I tried during industrial action at SNCF;
they sold through tickets but did not send
the bus on the ferry.

[Rolf Mantel]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 12:11:58 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 11:34:07 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by Certes
If the berme is in Saint-Denis, why aren't they diverting the trains to
another Paris station, even if it's Gare de Disney for a local shuttle
to the city?

Might be a question of route knowledge and the need
of running empty trains back to the UK or at least
as far as Lille.

Run the trains to Lille, bus to Paris or SNCF to some other Paris station.

SNCF on the same ticket?

SNCF is the majority shareholder in Eurostar so why not.

Post by Ulf_Kutzner
And I guess they struggle to transport their
own passengers.
Not sure for non-LGV routing via Ormoy-Villiers
but won't be able to take many trains.
Well, City of Saint-Denis starts short of
Boulevard péripherique, so the alternative
routing might be concerned, too, and complete
closure of GdN may be understood the way
the problem/bomb is located in the very
South of Saint Denis.

Well , whatever the solution its got to be better than leaving people in
London. At least get them as far as Lille then they can decide what to do
from there even if its getting a taxi.

It's easy to terminate a train one station stop before Paris (which
sadly is London). It's a bit harder to route the trains to a platform
at a station where the train usually passes through on a non-platform
line (Calais).
It's really difficulty to find paths for a train to run to a station
that is near but not on the normal route of the trian (Lille).

Getting customs officials to the selected destination station is another
can of worms.

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:39:50 +0100

Post by Rolf Mantel

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Well , whatever the solution its got to be better than leaving people in
London. At least get them as far as Lille then they can decide what to do
from there even if its getting a taxi.

It's easy to terminate a train one station stop before Paris (which
sadly is London). It's a bit harder to route the trains to a platform
at a station where the train usually passes through on a non-platform
line (Calais).
It's really difficulty to find paths for a train to run to a station
that is near but not on the normal route of the trian (Lille).
Getting customs officials to the selected destination station is another
can of worms.

Lille is an official eurostar stop. But customs from London isn't required
as passengers are checked at London, however there is customs at lille for
pax to London.

[Recliner]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:39:50 +0100

Post by Rolf Mantel

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Well , whatever the solution its got to be better than leaving people in
London. At least get them as far as Lille then they can decide what to do
from there even if its getting a taxi.

It's easy to terminate a train one station stop before Paris (which
sadly is London). It's a bit harder to route the trains to a platform
at a station where the train usually passes through on a non-platform
line (Calais).
It's really difficulty to find paths for a train to run to a station
that is near but not on the normal route of the trian (Lille).
Getting customs officials to the selected destination station is another
can of worms.

Lille is an official eurostar stop. But customs from London isn't required
as passengers are checked at London, however there is customs at lille for
pax to London.

You have it the wrong way round. Customs are for incoming Eurostar passengers, not departing (though they'd probably not
bother doing any checks in such circumstances). If the train was running normally, there would be a few Customs
inspectors on the platform at CDG, stopping a tiny percentage of the alighting passengers.

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Fri, 07 Mar 2025 14:53:58 +0000

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Lille is an official eurostar stop. But customs from London isn't required
as passengers are checked at London, however there is customs at lille for
pax to London.

You have it the wrong way round. Customs are for incoming Eurostar passengers,
not departing (though they'd probably not
bother doing any checks in such circumstances). If the train was running
normally, there would be a few Customs
inspectors on the platform at CDG, stopping a tiny percentage of the alighting passengers.

Fine, border passport checks then. Most people consider that to be customs.
There are no passport checks incoming at Lille, there very much are outgoing
otherwise every chancer would jump on a eurostar then claim asylum in london.

[Ulf_Kutzner]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 07 Mar 2025 14:53:58 +0000

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Lille is an official eurostar stop. But customs from London isn't required
as passengers are checked at London, however there is customs at lille for
pax to London.

You have it the wrong way round. Customs are for incoming Eurostar passengers,
not departing (though they'd probably not
bother doing any checks in such circumstances). If the train was running
normally, there would be a few Customs
inspectors on the platform at CDG, stopping a tiny percentage of the
alighting
passengers.

Fine, border passport checks then. Most people consider that to be customs.

Don't take yourself for the majority.

[M***@dastardlyhq.com]

On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 07:33:11 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 07 Mar 2025 14:53:58 +0000

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Lille is an official eurostar stop. But customs from London isn't required
as passengers are checked at London, however there is customs at lille for
pax to London.

You have it the wrong way round. Customs are for incoming Eurostar passengers,
not departing (though they'd probably not
bother doing any checks in such circumstances). If the train was running
normally, there would be a few Customs
inspectors on the platform at CDG, stopping a tiny percentage of the
alighting
passengers.

Fine, border passport checks then. Most people consider that to be customs.

Don't take yourself for the majority.

In most airports passport control and customs are a few metres apart so
most people would consider them part of the same border control system.

[Recliner]

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 07:33:11 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 07 Mar 2025 14:53:58 +0000

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Lille is an official eurostar stop. But customs from London isn't required
as passengers are checked at London, however there is customs at lille for
pax to London.

You have it the wrong way round. Customs are for incoming Eurostar passengers,
not departing (though they'd probably not
bother doing any checks in such circumstances). If the train was running
normally, there would be a few Customs
inspectors on the platform at CDG, stopping a tiny percentage of the
alighting
passengers.

Fine, border passport checks then. Most people consider that to be customs.

Don't take yourself for the majority.

In most airports passport control and customs are a few metres apart so
most people would consider them part of the same border control system.

No, that’s simply untrue. They have the often large baggage collection hall
in between, and are often on different floors of the terminal.

[Ulf_Kutzner]

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 07:33:11 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 07 Mar 2025 14:53:58 +0000

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Lille is an official eurostar stop. But customs from London isn't required
as passengers are checked at London, however there is customs at lille for
pax to London.

You have it the wrong way round. Customs are for incoming Eurostar passengers,
not departing (though they'd probably not
bother doing any checks in such circumstances). If the train was running
normally, there would be a few Customs
inspectors on the platform at CDG, stopping a tiny percentage of the
alighting
passengers.

Fine, border passport checks then. Most people consider that to be customs.

Don't take yourself for the majority.

In most airports passport control and customs are a few metres apart so
most people would consider them part of the same border control system.

No, that’s simply untrue. They have the often large baggage collection hall
in between, and are often on different floors of the terminal.

Most departing passengers do not wealk across
luggage collection hall. Well, customs are more
active for inbound passengers in most Western
countries.

Regards, ULF

[Recliner]

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 07:33:11 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 07 Mar 2025 14:53:58 +0000

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Lille is an official eurostar stop. But customs from London isn't required
as passengers are checked at London, however there is customs at lille for
pax to London.

You have it the wrong way round. Customs are for incoming Eurostar passengers,
not departing (though they'd probably not
bother doing any checks in such circumstances). If the train was running
normally, there would be a few Customs
inspectors on the platform at CDG, stopping a tiny percentage of the
alighting
passengers.

Fine, border passport checks then. Most people consider that to be customs.

Don't take yourself for the majority.

In most airports passport control and customs are a few metres apart so
most people would consider them part of the same border control system.

No, that’s simply untrue. They have the often large baggage collection hall
in between, and are often on different floors of the terminal.

Most departing passengers do not wealk across
luggage collection hall. Well, customs are more
active for inbound passengers in most Western
countries.

We were discussing arriving passengers.

[Rolf Mantel]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:39:50 +0100

Post by Rolf Mantel

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Well , whatever the solution its got to be better than leaving people in
London. At least get them as far as Lille then they can decide what to do
from there even if its getting a taxi.

It's easy to terminate a train one station stop before Paris (which
sadly is London). It's a bit harder to route the trains to a platform
at a station where the train usually passes through on a non-platform
line (Calais).
It's really difficulty to find paths for a train to run to a station
that is near but not on the normal route of the trian (Lille).
Getting customs officials to the selected destination station is another
can of worms.

Lille is an official eurostar stop. But customs from London isn't required
as passengers are checked at London, however there is customs at lille for
pax to London.

Looking at openrailwaymaps, I accept that Lille is like Calais and
withdraw my comment that Lille is not on the route London - Paris. I
thought it was on the Paris - Brussels
route<https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?style=standard&lang=en&lat=50.56230444080573&lon=3.21624755859375&zoom=11>

[Theo]

Post by Rolf Mantel
Looking at openrailwaymaps, I accept that Lille is like Calais and
withdraw my comment that Lille is not on the route London - Paris. I
thought it was on the Paris - Brussels
route<https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?style=standard&lang=en&lat=50.56230444080573&lon=3.21624755859375&zoom=11>

There are some Brussels to Paris (Marne la Vallee) to southern France trains
that stop at Lille Europe. Am I right in thinking they reverse there?

Theo

[Recliner]

Post by Theo

Post by Rolf Mantel
Looking at openrailwaymaps, I accept that Lille is like Calais and
withdraw my comment that Lille is not on the route London - Paris. I
thought it was on the Paris - Brussels
route<https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?style=standard&lang=en&lat=50.56230444080573&lon=3.21624755859375&zoom=11>

There are some Brussels to Paris (Marne la Vallee) to southern France trains
that stop at Lille Europe. Am I right in thinking they reverse there?

Yes, they have to. It took me by surprise the first time I was on one.

I know that at least some of them couple up to a second unit at Lille.

[Ulf_Kutzner]

Post by Theo

Post by Rolf Mantel
Looking at openrailwaymaps, I accept that Lille is like Calais and
withdraw my comment that Lille is not on the route London - Paris. I
thought it was on the Paris - Brussels
route<https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?style=standard&lang=en&lat=50.56230444080573&lon=3.21624755859375&zoom=11>

There are some Brussels to Paris (Marne la Vallee) to southern France trains
that stop at Lille Europe. Am I right in thinking they reverse there?

Yes, indeed.

[Recliner]

Post by Rolf Mantel

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 12:11:58 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 11:34:07 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by Certes
If the berme is in Saint-Denis, why aren't they diverting the trains to
another Paris station, even if it's Gare de Disney for a local shuttle
to the city?

Might be a question of route knowledge and the need
of running empty trains back to the UK or at least
as far as Lille.

Run the trains to Lille, bus to Paris or SNCF to some other Paris station.

SNCF on the same ticket?

SNCF is the majority shareholder in Eurostar so why not.

Post by Ulf_Kutzner
And I guess they struggle to transport their
own passengers.
Not sure for non-LGV routing via Ormoy-Villiers
but won't be able to take many trains.
Well, City of Saint-Denis starts short of
Boulevard péripherique, so the alternative
routing might be concerned, too, and complete
closure of GdN may be understood the way
the problem/bomb is located in the very
South of Saint Denis.

Well , whatever the solution its got to be better than leaving people in
London. At least get them as far as Lille then they can decide what to do
from there even if its getting a taxi.

It's easy to terminate a train one station stop before Paris (which
sadly is London). It's a bit harder to route the trains to a platform
at a station where the train usually passes through on a non-platform
line (Calais).
It's really difficulty to find paths for a train to run to a station
that is near but not on the normal route of the trian (Lille).

Lille-Europe is on the normal route of the train, and is set up for Eurostar trains to stop. But it looks like they've
not put on extra trains to Lille.

Post by Rolf Mantel
Getting customs officials to the selected destination station is another
can of worms.

Yes. And there would certainly be no chance of an international departure from such stations.

There are also a couple of minor stations on the LGV that are served by occasional TGVs. Another theoretical option
would be the TGV station in CDG, from which it's not hard to get into Paris. In theory, a Eurostar could terminate
there, but the logistical problems getting them the rest of the way by road would be horrendous.

[Ulf_Kutzner]

Post by Rolf Mantel

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 12:11:58 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 11:34:07 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by Certes
If the berme is in Saint-Denis, why aren't they diverting the trains to
another Paris station, even if it's Gare de Disney for a local shuttle
to the city?

Might be a question of route knowledge and the need
of running empty trains back to the UK or at least
as far as Lille.

Run the trains to Lille, bus to Paris or SNCF to some other Paris station.

SNCF on the same ticket?

SNCF is the majority shareholder in Eurostar so why not.

Post by Ulf_Kutzner
And I guess they struggle to transport their
own passengers.
Not sure for non-LGV routing via Ormoy-Villiers
but won't be able to take many trains.
Well, City of Saint-Denis starts short of
Boulevard péripherique, so the alternative
routing might be concerned, too, and complete
closure of GdN may be understood the way
the problem/bomb is located in the very
South of Saint Denis.

Well , whatever the solution its got to be better than leaving people in
London. At least get them as far as Lille then they can decide what to do
from there even if its getting a taxi.

It's easy to terminate a train one station stop before Paris (which
sadly is London). It's a bit harder to route the trains to a platform
at a station where the train usually passes through on a non-platform
line (Calais).

Frethun 3TGV/4TGV might have been out of use for a while,
might need staffing wile unstaffed.

Post by Rolf Mantel
It's really difficulty to find paths for a train to run to a station
that is near but not on the normal route of the trian (Lille).

What about Lille-Europe?

Post by Rolf Mantel
Getting customs officials to the selected destination station is another
can of worms.

Not the very big problem for Lille-Europe
but more arrivals from London might need
more officers to handle.

[Coffee]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 12:11:58 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 11:34:07 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by Certes
If the berme is in Saint-Denis, why aren't they diverting the trains to
another Paris station, even if it's Gare de Disney for a local shuttle
to the city?

Might be a question of route knowledge and the need
of running empty trains back to the UK or at least
as far as Lille.

Run the trains to Lille, bus to Paris or SNCF to some other Paris station.

SNCF on the same ticket?

SNCF is the majority shareholder in Eurostar so why not.

Post by Ulf_Kutzner
And I guess they struggle to transport their
own passengers.
Not sure for non-LGV routing via Ormoy-Villiers
but won't be able to take many trains.
Well, City of Saint-Denis starts short of
Boulevard péripherique, so the alternative
routing might be concerned, too, and complete
closure of GdN may be understood the way
the problem/bomb is located in the very
South of Saint Denis.

Well , whatever the solution its got to be better than leaving people in
London. At least get them as far as Lille then they can decide what to do
from there even if its getting a taxi.

I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

[Recliner]

Post by Coffee

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 12:11:58 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 11:34:07 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by Certes
If the berme is in Saint-Denis, why aren't they diverting the trains to
another Paris station, even if it's Gare de Disney for a local shuttle
to the city?

Might be a question of route knowledge and the need
of running empty trains back to the UK or at least
as far as Lille.

Run the trains to Lille, bus to Paris or SNCF to some other Paris station.

SNCF on the same ticket?

SNCF is the majority shareholder in Eurostar so why not.

Post by Ulf_Kutzner
And I guess they struggle to transport their
own passengers.
Not sure for non-LGV routing via Ormoy-Villiers
but won't be able to take many trains.
Well, City of Saint-Denis starts short of
Boulevard péripherique, so the alternative
routing might be concerned, too, and complete
closure of GdN may be understood the way
the problem/bomb is located in the very
South of Saint Denis.

Well , whatever the solution its got to be better than leaving people in
London. At least get them as far as Lille then they can decide what to do
from there even if its getting a taxi.

I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

Yes, I agree. Not travelling seems like the better option than getting stuck half way, with the domestic train services
to GdN also not running.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Coffee

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 12:11:58 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 11:34:07 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by Certes
If the berme is in Saint-Denis, why aren't they diverting the trains to
another Paris station, even if it's Gare de Disney for a local shuttle
to the city?

Might be a question of route knowledge and the need
of running empty trains back to the UK or at least
as far as Lille.

Run the trains to Lille, bus to Paris or SNCF to some other Paris station.

SNCF on the same ticket?

SNCF is the majority shareholder in Eurostar so why not.

Post by Ulf_Kutzner
And I guess they struggle to transport their
own passengers.
Not sure for non-LGV routing via Ormoy-Villiers
but won't be able to take many trains.
Well, City of Saint-Denis starts short of
Boulevard péripherique, so the alternative
routing might be concerned, too, and complete
closure of GdN may be understood the way
the problem/bomb is located in the very
South of Saint Denis.

Well , whatever the solution its got to be better than leaving people in
London. At least get them as far as Lille then they can decide what to do
from there even if its getting a taxi.

I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

IME Lille is quite nice, a glass of vin rouge and some decent food and
I'd be happy.

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:39:21 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Coffee
I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

IME Lille is quite nice, a glass of vin rouge and some decent food and
I'd be happy.

Yes, its quite a nice city. If you ignore all the usual 3rd worlders hanging
around.

[Ulf_Kutzner]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:39:21 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Coffee
I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

IME Lille is quite nice, a glass of vin rouge and some decent food and
I'd be happy.

Yes, its quite a nice city. If you ignore all the usual 3rd worlders hanging
around.

And none of them in London?

Well, decent vin rouge brought from South of France
might be cheaper than decent red wine. Lille is beer
area.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:39:21 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Coffee
I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

IME Lille is quite nice, a glass of vin rouge and some decent food and
I'd be happy.

Yes, its quite a nice city. If you ignore all the usual 3rd worlders hanging
around.

And none of them in London?
Well, decent vin rouge brought from South of France
might be cheaper than decent red wine. Lille is beer
area.

Jupiler IIRC. Though Belgian beers are freely available. Roast Chicken
seemed to be the favourite Sunday lunch. Had a wander round the market
one Sunday morning and it was full of lorries with chickens roasting on
spits and queues at each one. Families were going to church and then
collecting the chicken and wine or beer from the market.

[Ulf_Kutzner]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:39:21 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Coffee
I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

IME Lille is quite nice, a glass of vin rouge and some decent food and
I'd be happy.

Yes, its quite a nice city. If you ignore all the usual 3rd worlders hanging
around.

And none of them in London?
Well, decent vin rouge brought from South of France
might be cheaper than decent red wine. Lille is beer
area.

Jupiler IIRC. Though Belgian beers are freely available.

Jupiler is brewed in Belgium.

For Lille suburb production of
Inbev and Heineken see
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89conomie_de_l%27arrondissement_de_Lille#Agro-alimentaire

Regards, ULF

[M***@dastardlyhq.com]

On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 07:35:33 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:39:21 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Coffee
I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

IME Lille is quite nice, a glass of vin rouge and some decent food and
I'd be happy.

Yes, its quite a nice city. If you ignore all the usual 3rd worlders hanging
around.

And none of them in London?

Far too many in london which is exactly why I don't want to see them when
I go on holiday.

[Bob]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:39:21 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Coffee
I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

IME Lille is quite nice, a glass of vin rouge and some decent food and
I'd be happy.

Yes, its quite a nice city. If you ignore all the usual 3rd worlders hanging
around.

All those Swiss and Irish people.

Robin

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 10:50:11 +0100

Post by Bob

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:39:21 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Coffee
I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

IME Lille is quite nice, a glass of vin rouge and some decent food and
I'd be happy.

Yes, its quite a nice city. If you ignore all the usual 3rd worlders hanging
around.

All those Swiss and Irish people.

I'm sure that made sense to you when you wrote it.

[Bob]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 10:50:11 +0100

Post by Bob

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:39:21 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Coffee
I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

IME Lille is quite nice, a glass of vin rouge and some decent food and
I'd be happy.

Yes, its quite a nice city. If you ignore all the usual 3rd worlders hanging
around.

All those Swiss and Irish people.

I'm sure that made sense to you when you wrote it.

1st world is US aligned countries. 2nd world is Russian aligned
countries. 3rd world is non-aligned countries. Switzerland and Ireland
are non-aligned, so 3rd world.

Robin

[Rolf Mantel]

Post by Bob

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 10:50:11 +0100

Post by Bob

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:39:21 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Coffee
I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

IME Lille is quite nice, a glass of vin rouge and some decent food and
I'd be happy.

Yes, its quite a nice city. If you ignore all the usual 3rd worlders hanging
around.

All those Swiss and Irish people.

I'm sure that made sense to you when you wrote it.

1st world is US aligned countries. 2nd world is Russian aligned
countries. 3rd world is non-aligned countries. Switzerland and Ireland
are non-aligned, so 3rd world.

No, 1st world is OECD (industrialized) countries, 2nd world was COMECON
countries.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Rolf Mantel

Post by Bob

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 10:50:11 +0100

Post by Bob

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:39:21 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Coffee
I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

IME Lille is quite nice, a glass of vin rouge and some decent food and
I'd be happy.

Yes, its quite a nice city. If you ignore all the usual 3rd worlders hanging
around.

All those Swiss and Irish people.

I'm sure that made sense to you when you wrote it.

1st world is US aligned countries. 2nd world is Russian aligned
countries. 3rd world is non-aligned countries. Switzerland and Ireland
are non-aligned, so 3rd world.

No, 1st world is OECD (industrialized) countries, 2nd world was COMECON
countries.

The world has suddenly changed, or maybe you hadn't noticed.

[Rolf Mantel]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Rolf Mantel

Post by Bob

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 10:50:11 +0100

Post by Bob

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:39:21 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Coffee
I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

IME Lille is quite nice, a glass of vin rouge and some decent food and
I'd be happy.

Yes, its quite a nice city. If you ignore all the usual 3rd worlders hanging
around.

All those Swiss and Irish people.

I'm sure that made sense to you when you wrote it.

1st world is US aligned countries. 2nd world is Russian aligned
countries. 3rd world is non-aligned countries. Switzerland and
Ireland are non-aligned, so 3rd world.

No, 1st world is OECD (industrialized) countries, 2nd world was
COMECON countries.

The world has suddenly changed, or maybe you hadn't noticed.

Correct. The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

[Nobody]

On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 16:17:41 +0100, Rolf Mantel

Post by Rolf Mantel

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Rolf Mantel

Post by Bob

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 10:50:11 +0100

Post by Bob

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:39:21 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Coffee
I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

IME Lille is quite nice, a glass of vin rouge and some decent food and
I'd be happy.

Yes, its quite a nice city. If you ignore all the usual 3rd worlders hanging
around.

All those Swiss and Irish people.

I'm sure that made sense to you when you wrote it.

1st world is US aligned countries. 2nd world is Russian aligned
countries. 3rd world is non-aligned countries. Switzerland and
Ireland are non-aligned, so 3rd world.

No, 1st world is OECD (industrialized) countries, 2nd world was
COMECON countries.

The world has suddenly changed, or maybe you hadn't noticed.

Correct. The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

In the last two months, much of the north has gone south...

[Roland Perry]

The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use since 1990
if you haven't noticed.

What I've noticed is that the expression "First World Problem" is
commonplace on social media.

[JMB99]

Correct.  The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

Not sure that 'out of use', just not politically correct.

Various terms have come into use as alternatives - 'brain surgeons' and
even 'Welsh' after Two Tiers failed attempt to conceal the ethnicity of
the Southport murderer.

[Rolf Mantel]

Post by JMB99

Correct.  The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

Not sure that 'out of use', just not politically correct.

No, with the end of the east/west conflict, the remaining meaningful
terms were "industrialized countries", "middle income countries" and
"developing countries", which also pointed to the fact that the status
of countries was changeable.

The only left-over meaning for "3rd world country" was derogitary, and
Mr Trump preferred the word "shit-hole" country for that ;-)

[JMB99]

The only left-over meaning  for "3rd world country" was derogitary, and
Mr Trump preferred the word "shit-hole" country for that 😉

One of the few times that Trump has been correct.

[Recliner]

Post by Rolf Mantel

Post by JMB99

Correct.  The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

Not sure that 'out of use', just not politically correct.

No, with the end of the east/west conflict, the remaining meaningful
terms were "industrialized countries", "middle income countries" and
"developing countries", which also pointed to the fact that the status
of countries was changeable.
The only left-over meaning for "3rd world country" was derogitary, and
Mr Trump preferred the word "shit-hole" country for that ;-)

I think the PC term is now 'Global South'.

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 12:59:58 +0000

Post by JMB99

Correct.  The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

Not sure that 'out of use', just not politically correct.
Various terms have come into use as alternatives - 'brain surgeons' and
even 'Welsh' after Two Tiers failed attempt to conceal the ethnicity of
the Southport murderer.

Speaking of ethnicity I saw an interview with Rishi Sunak on TV the other
week where he claimed he was English. Umm , sorry pal, you're british (asian),
not english. Maybe if england ever became a standalone country "english"
might come to mean nationality but for now its an ethnicity.

[Certes]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 12:59:58 +0000

Post by JMB99

Correct.  The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

Not sure that 'out of use', just not politically correct.
Various terms have come into use as alternatives - 'brain surgeons' and
even 'Welsh' after Two Tiers failed attempt to conceal the ethnicity of
the Southport murderer.

Speaking of ethnicity I saw an interview with Rishi Sunak on TV the other
week where he claimed he was English. Umm , sorry pal, you're british (asian),
not english. Maybe if england ever became a standalone country "english"
might come to mean nationality but for now its an ethnicity.

Try popping along to the next Celtic match and reminding their fans that
they are not Scottish but British.

[M***@dastardlyhq.com]

On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 17:48:43 +0000

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 12:59:58 +0000

Post by JMB99

Correct.  The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

Not sure that 'out of use', just not politically correct.
Various terms have come into use as alternatives - 'brain surgeons' and
even 'Welsh' after Two Tiers failed attempt to conceal the ethnicity of
the Southport murderer.

Speaking of ethnicity I saw an interview with Rishi Sunak on TV the other
week where he claimed he was English. Umm , sorry pal, you're british

(asian),

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
not english. Maybe if england ever became a standalone country "english"
might come to mean nationality but for now its an ethnicity.

Try popping along to the next Celtic match and reminding their fans that
they are not Scottish but British.

Thats their problem. These islands are called the British Isles, not the
Anglo Saxon Isles, hence they're British whether they like it or not.

[Charles Ellson]

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 17:48:43 +0000

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 12:59:58 +0000

Post by JMB99

Correct.  The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

Not sure that 'out of use', just not politically correct.
Various terms have come into use as alternatives - 'brain surgeons' and
even 'Welsh' after Two Tiers failed attempt to conceal the ethnicity of
the Southport murderer.

Speaking of ethnicity I saw an interview with Rishi Sunak on TV the other
week where he claimed he was English. Umm , sorry pal, you're british

(asian),

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
not english. Maybe if england ever became a standalone country "english"
might come to mean nationality but for now its an ethnicity.

Try popping along to the next Celtic match and reminding their fans that
they are not Scottish but British.

Thats their problem. These islands are called the British Isles, not the
Anglo Saxon Isles, hence they're British whether they like it or not.

The British Isles include Ireland. Try standing in O'Connell Street
and shouting to people that they are British. The Isles never were
Anglo-Saxon rather than containing a mixture of peoples.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 17:48:43 +0000

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 12:59:58 +0000

Post by JMB99

Correct.  The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

Not sure that 'out of use', just not politically correct.
Various terms have come into use as alternatives - 'brain surgeons' and
even 'Welsh' after Two Tiers failed attempt to conceal the ethnicity of
the Southport murderer.

Speaking of ethnicity I saw an interview with Rishi Sunak on TV the other
week where he claimed he was English. Umm , sorry pal, you're british

(asian),

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
not english. Maybe if england ever became a standalone country "english"
might come to mean nationality but for now its an ethnicity.

Try popping along to the next Celtic match and reminding their fans that
they are not Scottish but British.

Thats their problem. These islands are called the British Isles, not the
Anglo Saxon Isles, hence they're British whether they like it or not.

The British Isles include Ireland. Try standing in O'Connell Street
and shouting to people that they are British. The Isles never were
Anglo-Saxon rather than containing a mixture of peoples.

Neither, apparently, are they Celtic, despite claiming to be a Celtic
nation!

[Charles Ellson]

On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 18:38:08 +0000, Graeme Wall

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 17:48:43 +0000

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 12:59:58 +0000

Post by JMB99

Correct.  The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

Not sure that 'out of use', just not politically correct.
Various terms have come into use as alternatives - 'brain surgeons' and
even 'Welsh' after Two Tiers failed attempt to conceal the ethnicity of
the Southport murderer.

Speaking of ethnicity I saw an interview with Rishi Sunak on TV the other
week where he claimed he was English. Umm , sorry pal, you're british

(asian),

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
not english. Maybe if england ever became a standalone country "english"
might come to mean nationality but for now its an ethnicity.

Try popping along to the next Celtic match and reminding their fans that
they are not Scottish but British.

Thats their problem. These islands are called the British Isles, not the
Anglo Saxon Isles, hence they're British whether they like it or not.

The British Isles include Ireland. Try standing in O'Connell Street
and shouting to people that they are British. The Isles never were
Anglo-Saxon rather than containing a mixture of peoples.

Neither, apparently, are they Celtic, despite claiming to be a Celtic
nation!

Certainly not all at the same time. The usual spoiler is Scandinavian
(probably Viking ?) input.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Charles Ellson
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 18:38:08 +0000, Graeme Wall

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 17:48:43 +0000

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 12:59:58 +0000

Post by JMB99

Correct.  The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

Not sure that 'out of use', just not politically correct.
Various terms have come into use as alternatives - 'brain surgeons' and
even 'Welsh' after Two Tiers failed attempt to conceal the ethnicity of
the Southport murderer.

Speaking of ethnicity I saw an interview with Rishi Sunak on TV the other
week where he claimed he was English. Umm , sorry pal, you're british

(asian),

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
not english. Maybe if england ever became a standalone country "english"
might come to mean nationality but for now its an ethnicity.

Try popping along to the next Celtic match and reminding their fans that
they are not Scottish but British.

Thats their problem. These islands are called the British Isles, not the
Anglo Saxon Isles, hence they're British whether they like it or not.

The British Isles include Ireland. Try standing in O'Connell Street
and shouting to people that they are British. The Isles never were
Anglo-Saxon rather than containing a mixture of peoples.

Neither, apparently, are they Celtic, despite claiming to be a Celtic
nation!

Certainly not all at the same time. The usual spoiler is Scandinavian
(probably Viking ?) input.

More than that, a few years back they excavated a bronze age tomb on
Rathlin island dating back to about 2000BCE. Modern DNA analysis has
shown that the skeleton's DNA profile is very close to the modern Irish
average profile. The Celts didn't arrive until around 1000 BCE and, of
course, the Vikings are c 1000CE.

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 19:46:49 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Charles Ellson
Certainly not all at the same time. The usual spoiler is Scandinavian
(probably Viking ?) input.

More than that, a few years back they excavated a bronze age tomb on
Rathlin island dating back to about 2000BCE. Modern DNA analysis has
shown that the skeleton's DNA profile is very close to the modern Irish
average profile. The Celts didn't arrive until around 1000 BCE and, of
course, the Vikings are c 1000CE.

The Irish never miss an opportunity to make a big fuss about the "English"
invasions - actually Norman kings but lets not worry about facts - but never
mention the fact the vikings ran part of their island for hundreds of years.

Also IIRC the celts invaded scotland from ireland and killed off the Picts
and pushed out the welsh speakers in the lowlands long before the anglo
saxons rocked up.

[Ulf_Kutzner]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 19:46:49 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Charles Ellson
Certainly not all at the same time. The usual spoiler is Scandinavian
(probably Viking ?) input.

More than that, a few years back they excavated a bronze age tomb on
Rathlin island dating back to about 2000BCE. Modern DNA analysis has
shown that the skeleton's DNA profile is very close to the modern Irish
average profile. The Celts didn't arrive until around 1000 BCE and, of
course, the Vikings are c 1000CE.

The Irish never miss an opportunity to make a big fuss about the "English"
invasions - actually Norman kings but lets not worry about facts

Do you include Elisabeth I?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rathlin_Island_massacre

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 10:04:04 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 19:46:49 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Charles Ellson
Certainly not all at the same time. The usual spoiler is Scandinavian
(probably Viking ?) input.

More than that, a few years back they excavated a bronze age tomb on
Rathlin island dating back to about 2000BCE. Modern DNA analysis has
shown that the skeleton's DNA profile is very close to the modern Irish
average profile. The Celts didn't arrive until around 1000 BCE and, of
course, the Vikings are c 1000CE.

The Irish never miss an opportunity to make a big fuss about the "English"
invasions - actually Norman kings but lets not worry about facts

Do you include Elisabeth I?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rathlin_Island_massacre

Hardly an invasion. There were always skirmishes between the nations back
in those days.

[Charles Ellson]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 19:46:49 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Charles Ellson
Certainly not all at the same time. The usual spoiler is Scandinavian
(probably Viking ?) input.

More than that, a few years back they excavated a bronze age tomb on
Rathlin island dating back to about 2000BCE. Modern DNA analysis has
shown that the skeleton's DNA profile is very close to the modern Irish
average profile. The Celts didn't arrive until around 1000 BCE and, of
course, the Vikings are c 1000CE.

The Irish never miss an opportunity to make a big fuss about the "English"
invasions - actually Norman kings but lets not worry about facts - but never
mention the fact the vikings ran part of their island for hundreds of years.
Also IIRC the celts invaded scotland from ireland and killed off the Picts
and pushed out the welsh speakers in the lowlands long before the anglo
saxons rocked up.

The Picts weren't killed off. The populations merged.

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 18:30:37 +0000

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com

Post by Certes
Try popping along to the next Celtic match and reminding their fans that
they are not Scottish but British.

Thats their problem. These islands are called the British Isles, not the
Anglo Saxon Isles, hence they're British whether they like it or not.

The British Isles include Ireland. Try standing in O'Connell Street
and shouting to people that they are British. The Isles never were
Anglo-Saxon rather than containing a mixture of peoples.

The British Isles is the ancient home of the ancient Britons which last time I
looked included the Irish as well as everyone in england, scotland and wales.

Though these days if you stood in a street in Dublin and shouted you'd
probably get replies in arabic or somali. Seems Ireland is self destructing
even faster than sweden regards uncontrolled immigration.

[Mark Goodge]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 12:59:58 +0000

Post by JMB99

Correct.  The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

Not sure that 'out of use', just not politically correct.
Various terms have come into use as alternatives - 'brain surgeons' and
even 'Welsh' after Two Tiers failed attempt to conceal the ethnicity of
the Southport murderer.

Speaking of ethnicity I saw an interview with Rishi Sunak on TV the other
week where he claimed he was English. Umm , sorry pal, you're british (asian),
not english. Maybe if england ever became a standalone country "english"
might come to mean nationality but for now its an ethnicity.

Rishi Sunak is English for the same reason that I am: it's where we were
born and grew up. Englishness is about geography, not ethnicity. Ethnically,
I'm Anglo-Saxon and Rishi is Indian. But neither of those prevent us being
fully English.

Mark

[Coffee]

Post by Mark Goodge

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 12:59:58 +0000

Post by JMB99

Correct.  The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

Not sure that 'out of use', just not politically correct.
Various terms have come into use as alternatives - 'brain surgeons' and
even 'Welsh' after Two Tiers failed attempt to conceal the ethnicity of
the Southport murderer.

Speaking of ethnicity I saw an interview with Rishi Sunak on TV the other
week where he claimed he was English. Umm , sorry pal, you're british (asian),
not english. Maybe if england ever became a standalone country "english"
might come to mean nationality but for now its an ethnicity.

Rishi Sunak is English for the same reason that I am: it's where we were
born and grew up. Englishness is about geography, not ethnicity. Ethnically,
I'm Anglo-Saxon and Rishi is Indian. But neither of those prevent us being
fully English.

I'm English because that's the country where I was born. I'm a UK
citizen because that's also where I was born and both my parents were UK
citizens. I hold a UK passport.

I used to upset the security office at work because I refused to write
'British' in their otherwise uniform signing in book. I particularly
upset their dim witted secretary once by taking my passport with me when
I knew I was due yet another bollocking.

I still use the old fashioned meaning of abroad which can upset people
now that I live in Wales as I often use it to refer to England. The
traditional meaning of abroad can mean not at home although that has
died out. It was most certainly used in Norfolk when I lived there in
the 60s.

[M***@dastardlyhq.com]

On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 07:17:30 +0000

Post by Coffee

Post by Mark Goodge
Rishi Sunak is English for the same reason that I am: it's where we were
born and grew up. Englishness is about geography, not ethnicity. Ethnically,
I'm Anglo-Saxon and Rishi is Indian. But neither of those prevent us being
fully English.

I'm English because that's the country where I was born. I'm a UK

Using that logic I guess you consider Joanna Lumley to be Indian and Richard
E Grant to be Rhodesian?

[Charles Ellson]

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 07:17:30 +0000

Post by Coffee

Post by Mark Goodge
Rishi Sunak is English for the same reason that I am: it's where we were
born and grew up. Englishness is about geography, not ethnicity. Ethnically,
I'm Anglo-Saxon and Rishi is Indian. But neither of those prevent us being
fully English.

I'm English because that's the country where I was born. I'm a UK

Using that logic I guess you consider Joanna Lumley to be Indian and Richard
E Grant to be Rhodesian?

There are still a lot of countries/states where being born there is
good enough as some people who have e.g. received call-up papers for
Germany/USA/Israel/etc. can confirm.

[Ulf_Kutzner]

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 07:17:30 +0000

Post by Coffee

Post by Mark Goodge
Rishi Sunak is English for the same reason that I am: it's where we were
born and grew up. Englishness is about geography, not ethnicity. Ethnically,
I'm Anglo-Saxon and Rishi is Indian. But neither of those prevent us being
fully English.

I'm English because that's the country where I was born. I'm a UK

Using that logic I guess you consider Joanna Lumley to be Indian and Richard
E Grant to be Rhodesian?

There are still a lot of countries/states where being born there is
good enough as some people who have e.g. received call-up papers for
Germany/USA/Israel/etc. can confirm.

Being born in Germany may or may not grant German citizenship.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Staatsangeh%C3%B6rigkeit#Durch_Geburt_im_Inland_(Geburtsortprinzip)

Regards, ULF

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 07:17:30 +0000

Post by Mark Goodge
Rishi Sunak is English for the same reason that I am: it's where we were
born and grew up. Englishness is about geography, not ethnicity. Ethnically,
I'm Anglo-Saxon and Rishi is Indian. But neither of those prevent us being
fully English.

I'm English because that's the country where I was born.  I'm a UK

Using that logic I guess you consider Joanna Lumley to be Indian and Richard
E Grant to be Rhodesian?

There are still a lot of countries/states where being born there is
good enough as some people who have e.g. received call-up papers for
Germany/USA/Israel/etc. can confirm.

Being born in Germany may or may not grant German citizenship.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Staatsangeh%C3%B6rigkeit#Durch_Geburt_im_Inland_(Geburtsortprinzip)
Regards, ULF

Trump has just stopped it applying in the USA.

[Charles Ellson]

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 07:17:30 +0000

Post by Coffee

Post by Mark Goodge
Rishi Sunak is English for the same reason that I am: it's where we were
born and grew up. Englishness is about geography, not ethnicity. Ethnically,
I'm Anglo-Saxon and Rishi is Indian. But neither of those prevent us being
fully English.

I'm English because that's the country where I was born. I'm a UK

Using that logic I guess you consider Joanna Lumley to be Indian and Richard
E Grant to be Rhodesian?

There are still a lot of countries/states where being born there is
good enough as some people who have e.g. received call-up papers for
Germany/USA/Israel/etc. can confirm.

Being born in Germany may or may not grant German citizenship.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Staatsangeh%C3%B6rigkeit#Durch_Geburt_im_Inland_(Geburtsortprinzip)
Regards, ULF

The usual bother in the past involved children born to servicemen's
wives in local hospitals and sometimes further complicated by the
birth not being re-registered in the UK. That left the child with a
German birth registration and no UK record of their birth when they
needed it for a passport or Natioanal Insurance card around 15 years
later.

[M***@dastardlyhq.com]

On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 20:34:45 +0000

Post by Mark Goodge

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 12:59:58 +0000

Post by JMB99

Correct.  The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

Not sure that 'out of use', just not politically correct.
Various terms have come into use as alternatives - 'brain surgeons' and
even 'Welsh' after Two Tiers failed attempt to conceal the ethnicity of
the Southport murderer.

Speaking of ethnicity I saw an interview with Rishi Sunak on TV the other
week where he claimed he was English. Umm , sorry pal, you're british (asian),
not english. Maybe if england ever became a standalone country "english"
might come to mean nationality but for now its an ethnicity.

Rishi Sunak is English for the same reason that I am: it's where we were
born and grew up. Englishness is about geography, not ethnicity. Ethnically,

Bollocks.

Post by Mark Goodge
I'm Anglo-Saxon and Rishi is Indian. But neither of those prevent us being
fully English.

So you'd describe yourself as a British Anglo Saxon would you? Do me a favour.
Asians consider themselves british asians, not british english. Go ask some.

[Mark Goodge]

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 20:34:45 +0000

Post by Mark Goodge

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 12:59:58 +0000

Post by JMB99

Correct.  The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

Not sure that 'out of use', just not politically correct.
Various terms have come into use as alternatives - 'brain surgeons' and
even 'Welsh' after Two Tiers failed attempt to conceal the ethnicity of
the Southport murderer.

Speaking of ethnicity I saw an interview with Rishi Sunak on TV the other
week where he claimed he was English. Umm , sorry pal, you're british (asian),
not english. Maybe if england ever became a standalone country "english"
might come to mean nationality but for now its an ethnicity.

Rishi Sunak is English for the same reason that I am: it's where we were
born and grew up. Englishness is about geography, not ethnicity. Ethnically,

Bollocks.

You can identify as ethnically bollocks if you want.

Mark

[M***@dastardlyhq.com]

On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 13:15:47 +0000

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 20:34:45 +0000

Post by Mark Goodge

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 12:59:58 +0000

Post by JMB99

Correct.  The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

Not sure that 'out of use', just not politically correct.
Various terms have come into use as alternatives - 'brain surgeons' and
even 'Welsh' after Two Tiers failed attempt to conceal the ethnicity of
the Southport murderer.

Speaking of ethnicity I saw an interview with Rishi Sunak on TV the other
week where he claimed he was English. Umm , sorry pal, you're british

(asian),

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com

Post by Mark Goodge

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
not english. Maybe if england ever became a standalone country "english"
might come to mean nationality but for now its an ethnicity.

Rishi Sunak is English for the same reason that I am: it's where we were
born and grew up. Englishness is about geography, not ethnicity. Ethnically,

Bollocks.

You can identify as ethnically bollocks if you want.

Points you can't answer swerved. Noted.

[Clank]

On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 20:34:45 +0000 Mark Goodge

Post by Mark Goodge

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org

Post by JMB99

Correct.  The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of
use since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

Not sure that 'out of use', just not politically correct.
Various terms have come into use as alternatives - 'brain surgeons'
and even 'Welsh' after Two Tiers failed attempt to conceal the
ethnicity of the Southport murderer.

Speaking of ethnicity I saw an interview with Rishi Sunak on TV the
other week where he claimed he was English. Umm , sorry pal, you're
british (asian),
not english. Maybe if england ever became a standalone country
"english" might come to mean nationality but for now its an ethnicity.

Rishi Sunak is English for the same reason that I am: it's where we were
born and grew up. Englishness is about geography, not ethnicity. Ethnically,

Bollocks.

Post by Mark Goodge
I'm Anglo-Saxon and Rishi is Indian. But neither of those prevent us
being fully English.

So you'd describe yourself as a British Anglo Saxon would you?

Most normal people don't feel the need to describe themselves as anything
at all other than once a decade or so when the census form comes round.

Obsession about this stuff tends to come from sweaty old men in vests who
having achieved absolutely nothing of note in their own lives feel the
need to identify vicariously with the achievements of some tribe or other.

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 09:33:05 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Clank

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com

Post by Mark Goodge
I'm Anglo-Saxon and Rishi is Indian. But neither of those prevent us
being fully English.

So you'd describe yourself as a British Anglo Saxon would you?

Most normal people don't feel the need to describe themselves as anything
at all other than once a decade or so when the census form comes round.

Speak for yourself. Just because you're a rootless itinerant don't assume
everyone else is indifferent to their culture and history. Go speak to some
british indian or pakistani and ask them if they don't give a toss about
their culture or where they come from.

Post by Clank
Obsession about this stuff tends to come from sweaty old men in vests who
having achieved absolutely nothing of note in their own lives feel the
need to identify vicariously with the achievements of some tribe or other.

Actually ITYF the people most obsessing with this stuff are the liberal left
who love to compartmentalise every tiny ethic and cultural difference so they
can play their divide and conquer social engineering games.

[Rolf Mantel]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 09:33:05 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Clank

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com

Post by Mark Goodge
I'm Anglo-Saxon and Rishi is Indian. But neither of those prevent us
being fully English.

So you'd describe yourself as a British Anglo Saxon would you?

Most normal people don't feel the need to describe themselves as anything
at all other than once a decade or so when the census form comes round.

Speak for yourself. Just because you're a rootless itinerant don't assume
everyone else is indifferent to their culture and history. Go speak to some
british indian or pakistani and ask them if they don't give a toss about
their culture or where they come from.

Do you know the difference between 'not giving a toss' and 'actively
offering information'?

Do you know that especially "where they come from" is an extremely
loaded question that most non-white citizens would much prefer to answer
with "from Bradford" than with "I have two grandparents from Pakistan,
one from Jamaica and one from Scotland"?

Are you aware that "cultural heritage" is a completely different focus
than "genetic heritage"?

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 11:25:54 +0100

Post by Rolf Mantel

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 09:33:05 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Clank

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com

Post by Mark Goodge
I'm Anglo-Saxon and Rishi is Indian. But neither of those prevent us
being fully English.

So you'd describe yourself as a British Anglo Saxon would you?

Most normal people don't feel the need to describe themselves as anything
at all other than once a decade or so when the census form comes round.

Speak for yourself. Just because you're a rootless itinerant don't assume
everyone else is indifferent to their culture and history. Go speak to some
british indian or pakistani and ask them if they don't give a toss about
their culture or where they come from.

Do you know the difference between 'not giving a toss' and 'actively
offering information'?

Yes. Whats that got to do with the discussion?

Post by Rolf Mantel
Do you know that especially "where they come from" is an extremely
loaded question that most non-white citizens would much prefer to answer
with "from Bradford" than with "I have two grandparents from Pakistan,
one from Jamaica and one from Scotland"?

I really don't care. A lot of them have their cultural and social compass
pointing at the subcontinent and don't share all that many british values when
it comes to freedom of speech and treatment of women and those ones I don't
consider British except in the purely administrative sense of what passport
they have.

Post by Rolf Mantel
Are you aware that "cultural heritage" is a completely different focus
than "genetic heritage"?

Is it? Who knew. However the 2 tend to go hand in hand most of the time.

[Charles Ellson]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 11:25:54 +0100

Post by Rolf Mantel

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 09:33:05 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Clank

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com

Post by Mark Goodge
I'm Anglo-Saxon and Rishi is Indian. But neither of those prevent us
being fully English.

So you'd describe yourself as a British Anglo Saxon would you?

Most normal people don't feel the need to describe themselves as anything
at all other than once a decade or so when the census form comes round.

Speak for yourself. Just because you're a rootless itinerant don't assume
everyone else is indifferent to their culture and history. Go speak to some
british indian or pakistani and ask them if they don't give a toss about
their culture or where they come from.

Do you know the difference between 'not giving a toss' and 'actively
offering information'?

Yes. Whats that got to do with the discussion?

Post by Rolf Mantel
Do you know that especially "where they come from" is an extremely
loaded question that most non-white citizens would much prefer to answer
with "from Bradford" than with "I have two grandparents from Pakistan,
one from Jamaica and one from Scotland"?

I really don't care. A lot of them have their cultural and social compass
pointing at the subcontinent and don't share all that many british values

Which version of "British Values" would that be ?
<snip>

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 18:38:54 +0000

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
I really don't care. A lot of them have their cultural and social compass
pointing at the subcontinent and don't share all that many british values

Which version of "British Values" would that be ?
<snip>

Treating women as equal, being tolerant of dissenting views especially if
someone criticises your religion. Accepting that religious belief is a choice,
not a biological attribute, it can be criticised and people can change their
mind and reject it and should not be ostracised or receive death threats if
they do so.

Hows that for starters?

[Arthur Figgis]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
being tolerant of dissenting views especially if
someone criticises your religion.

That's English, not British.

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 18:37:20 +0000

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
being tolerant of dissenting views especially if
someone criticises your religion.

That's English, not British.

If you're implying northern ireland, religion was simply a convenient gang
badge, the real issue was - and still is - british rule. As for scotland and
wales, never noticed them getting worked up about other peoples religions.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 18:37:20 +0000

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
being tolerant of dissenting views especially if
someone criticises your religion.

That's English, not British.

If you're implying northern ireland, religion was simply a convenient gang
badge, the real issue was - and still is - british rule. As for scotland and
wales, never noticed them getting worked up about other peoples religions.

You've not met a Wee Free then?

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 09:51:11 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 18:37:20 +0000

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
being tolerant of dissenting views especially if
someone criticises your religion.

That's English, not British.

If you're implying northern ireland, religion was simply a convenient gang
badge, the real issue was - and still is - british rule. As for scotland and
wales, never noticed them getting worked up about other peoples religions.

You've not met a Wee Free then?

Never even heard of one, never mind met one.

[Sam Wilson]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 09:51:11 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 18:37:20 +0000

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
being tolerant of dissenting views especially if
someone criticises your religion.

That's English, not British.

If you're implying northern ireland, religion was simply a convenient gang
badge, the real issue was - and still is - british rule. As for scotland and
wales, never noticed them getting worked up about other peoples religions.

You've not met a Wee Free then?

Never even heard of one, never mind met one.

You have led a sheltered life!

TBF I never learned anything about Scottish history growing up in
Manchester, but shades of religious affairs are deeply wound through it
all. Try looking up the Covenanters and John Knox for some wild
disagreements.

Sam

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 13:24:39 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Sam Wilson

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 09:51:11 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 18:37:20 +0000

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
being tolerant of dissenting views especially if
someone criticises your religion.

That's English, not British.

If you're implying northern ireland, religion was simply a convenient gang
badge, the real issue was - and still is - british rule. As for scotland

and

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
wales, never noticed them getting worked up about other peoples religions.

You've not met a Wee Free then?

Never even heard of one, never mind met one.

You have led a sheltered life!
TBF I never learned anything about Scottish history growing up in
Manchester, but shades of religious affairs are deeply wound through it
all. Try looking up the Covenanters and John Knox for some wild
disagreements.

And how many centuries ago was that! I'm talking about now.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 13:24:39 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Sam Wilson

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 09:51:11 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 18:37:20 +0000

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
being tolerant of dissenting views especially if
someone criticises your religion.

That's English, not British.

If you're implying northern ireland, religion was simply a convenient gang
badge, the real issue was - and still is - british rule. As for scotland

and

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
wales, never noticed them getting worked up about other peoples religions.

You've not met a Wee Free then?

Never even heard of one, never mind met one.

You have led a sheltered life!
TBF I never learned anything about Scottish history growing up in
Manchester, but shades of religious affairs are deeply wound through it
all. Try looking up the Covenanters and John Knox for some wild
disagreements.

And how many centuries ago was that! I'm talking about now.

There is still an amount of tension between the Church of Scotland (no
bishops) and the Episcopalians.

[Marland]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 09:51:11 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 18:37:20 +0000

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
being tolerant of dissenting views especially if
someone criticises your religion.

That's English, not British.

If you're implying northern ireland, religion was simply a convenient gang
badge, the real issue was - and still is - british rule. As for scotland and
wales, never noticed them getting worked up about other peoples religions.

You've not met a Wee Free then?

Never even heard of one, never mind met one.

Trumps Mother would have been one till she emigrated.

Its only been 20 -30 years since their influence waned enough that some
Western Isles accepted
ferry services on a Sunday.
Some adherents were not happy with even the minor modernisation of the Wee
Frees that eg now lets children play on Sundays rather than read the bible
so broke away and there are now the Wee ,Wee Frees.

GH

[Marland]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 18:37:20 +0000

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
being tolerant of dissenting views especially if
someone criticises your religion.

That's English, not British.

If you're implying northern ireland, religion was simply a convenient gang
badge, the real issue was - and still is - british rule. As for scotland and
wales, never noticed them getting worked up about other peoples religions.

Really? I’ll grant you that Wales doesn’t seem to have had many problems
but Scotland has had a long tradition of sectarian conflict between
Catholics and Protestants. Hence the tension between the supporters of
Glasgows main Soccer teams Celtic and Rangers and too a lesser extent the
Edinburgh teams of Hearts and Hibernian.
That is the public face of it , it goes on at a much lower level as well.

GH

[Sam Wilson]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 18:37:20 +0000

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
being tolerant of dissenting views especially if
someone criticises your religion.

That's English, not British.

If you're implying northern ireland, religion was simply a convenient gang
badge, the real issue was - and still is - british rule. As for scotland and
wales, never noticed them getting worked up about other peoples religions.

Really? I’ll grant you that Wales doesn’t seem to have had many problems . . . [snip]

There’s the tale of a Welsh sailor who was shipwrecked on a desert island.
His rescuers found that he’d built two little huts. When asked about them
he pointed to one and said, “that’s the chapel I go to.” They asked about
the other. “Oh, that,” he replied, “that’s the chapel I don’t go to.”

Sam

[Marland]

Post by Sam Wilson

Really? I’ll grant you that Wales doesn’t seem to have had many problems . . . [snip]

There’s the tale of a Welsh sailor who was shipwrecked on a desert island.
His rescuers found that he’d built two little huts. When asked about them
he pointed to one and said, “that’s the chapel I go to.” They asked about
the other. “Oh, that,” he replied, “that’s the chapel I don’t go to.”
Sam

I’d forgotten about the fragmentation of the Methodist Movement despite
growing up n the SouthWest where you could hardly move a few miles without
seeing various chapels adorned with stone plaques stating, Primitive,
Wesleyan, Bible Christian and a couple more I have forgotten.
We had a couple in one of our nearby villages that were in sight of each
other though one became redundant after the reconciliation of the 1930’s
but that was still recent enough that older residence who were not
Methodists referred to them by the names of Spite and Envy.
Both like so many are now residences.

GH

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On 21 Mar 2025 13:21:45 GMT

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 18:37:20 +0000

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
being tolerant of dissenting views especially if
someone criticises your religion.

That's English, not British.

If you're implying northern ireland, religion was simply a convenient gang
badge, the real issue was - and still is - british rule. As for scotland and
wales, never noticed them getting worked up about other peoples religions.

Really? I’ll grant you that Wales doesn’t seem to have had many problems
but Scotland has had a long tradition of sectarian conflict between
Catholics and Protestants. Hence the tension between the supporters of
Glasgows main Soccer teams Celtic and Rangers and too a lesser extent the
Edinburgh teams of Hearts and Hibernian.
That is the public face of it , it goes on at a much lower level as well.

Thats a tiny minority of thick idiots who never cause any problems beyond
the football ground and occasionally voting SNP.

[Charles Ellson]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 18:38:54 +0000

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
I really don't care. A lot of them have their cultural and social compass
pointing at the subcontinent and don't share all that many british values

Which version of "British Values" would that be ?
<snip>

Treating women as equal, being tolerant of dissenting views especially if
someone criticises your religion. Accepting that religious belief is a choice,
not a biological attribute, it can be criticised and people can change their
mind and reject it and should not be ostracised or receive death threats if
they do so.
Hows that for starters?

None of which featured in previous material from HMG which seemed to
concentrate on pillar boxes, Routemaster buses, guardsmen and a clock
tower.

[Charles Ellson]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 12:59:58 +0000

Post by JMB99

Correct.  The terms "1st world" and "3rd world" have been out of use
since 1990 if you haven't noticed.

Not sure that 'out of use', just not politically correct.
Various terms have come into use as alternatives - 'brain surgeons' and
even 'Welsh' after Two Tiers failed attempt to conceal the ethnicity of
the Southport murderer.

Speaking of ethnicity I saw an interview with Rishi Sunak on TV the other
week where he claimed he was English. Umm , sorry pal, you're british (asian),
not english. Maybe if england ever became a standalone country "english"
might come to mean nationality but for now its an ethnicity.

The British Nationality Acts only define a narrow section of the
broader subject of nationality. Being English-born is one of several
accepted ways of being English.

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 15:56:17 +0100

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 10:50:11 +0100

Post by Bob

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:39:21 +0000

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Coffee
I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

IME Lille is quite nice, a glass of vin rouge and some decent food and
I'd be happy.

Yes, its quite a nice city. If you ignore all the usual 3rd worlders

hanging

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org

Post by Bob

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
around.

All those Swiss and Irish people.

I'm sure that made sense to you when you wrote it.

1st world is US aligned countries. 2nd world is Russian aligned
countries. 3rd world is non-aligned countries. Switzerland and Ireland
are non-aligned, so 3rd world.

Since when? Since you just made it up 5 mins ago? What a load of cobblers.
Its based on economics, not political alignments.

[Clank]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org

Post by Bob

On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:39:21 +0000 Graeme Wall

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Coffee
I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

IME Lille is quite nice, a glass of vin rouge and some decent food
and I'd be happy.

Yes, its quite a nice city. If you ignore all the usual 3rd worlders

hanging

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org

Post by Bob

around.

All those Swiss and Irish people.

I'm sure that made sense to you when you wrote it.

1st world is US aligned countries. 2nd world is Russian aligned
countries. 3rd world is non-aligned countries. Switzerland and Ireland
are non-aligned, so 3rd world.

Since when? Since you just made it up 5 mins ago? What a load of cobblers.
Its based on economics, not political alignments.

Were you home-schooled, by any chance?

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
The terms First World, Second World, and Third World were originally
used to divide the world's nations into three categories. The complete
overthrow of the pre–World War II status quo left two superpowers (the
United States and the Soviet Union) vying for ultimate global supremacy,
a struggle known as the Cold War. They created two camps, known as
blocs. These blocs formed the basis of the concepts of the First and
Second Worlds.[1] The Third World consisted of those countries that were
not closely aligned with either bloc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-world_model

https://www.history.com/news/why-are-countries-classified-as-first-second-
or-third-world

https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world_countries.htm

https://easysociology.com/general-sociology/first-vs-second-vs-third-
world/

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 12:54:15 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Clank

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Since when? Since you just made it up 5 mins ago? What a load of cobblers.
Its based on economics, not political alignments.

Were you home-schooled, by any chance?

Did you have any schooling at all?

Post by Clank

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
The terms First World, Second World, and Third World were originally
used to divide the world's nations into three categories. The complete
overthrow of the pre–World War II status quo left two superpowers (the
United States and the Soviet Union) vying for ultimate global supremacy,
a struggle known as the Cold War. They created two camps, known as
blocs. These blocs formed the basis of the concepts of the First and
Second Worlds.[1] The Third World consisted of those countries that were
not closely aligned with either bloc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-world_model

I don't give a rats arse what the original meaning was. Meanings change.
The de facto meaning today is based on the level of economic and infrastructure
development. No one would called Sweden a 3rd world country (though they're
trying their best to get their allowing all the scum in, particularly in
Malmo).

[Clank]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 12:54:15 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Clank

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Since when? Since you just made it up 5 mins ago? What a load of cobblers.

Did you have any schooling at all?

Post by Clank

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
The terms First World, Second World, and Third World were originally
used to divide the world's nations into three categories. The complete
overthrow of the pre–World War II status quo left two superpowers (the
United States and the Soviet Union) vying for ultimate global supremacy,
a struggle known as the Cold War. They created two camps, known as
blocs. These blocs formed the basis of the concepts of the First and
Second Worlds.[1] The Third World consisted of those countries that
were not closely aligned with either bloc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-world_model

I don't give a rats arse what the original meaning was.

Then why did you ask "since when"? It rather implies you *did* give a
rat's arse that the answer is "since it was coined", which was, notably,
rather more than the 5 minutes ago that you speculated.

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 14:53:31 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Clank

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 12:54:15 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Clank

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Since when? Since you just made it up 5 mins ago? What a load of cobblers.

Did you have any schooling at all?

Post by Clank

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
The terms First World, Second World, and Third World were originally
used to divide the world's nations into three categories. The complete
overthrow of the pre–World War II status quo left two superpowers (the
United States and the Soviet Union) vying for ultimate global supremacy,
a struggle known as the Cold War. They created two camps, known as
blocs. These blocs formed the basis of the concepts of the First and
Second Worlds.[1] The Third World consisted of those countries that
were not closely aligned with either bloc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-world_model

I don't give a rats arse what the original meaning was.

Then why did you ask "since when"? It rather implies you *did* give a

Its a figure of speech meaning , "no, it doesn't". I assume you still
remember how to speak English after living in donkeyland for years.

Post by Clank
rat's arse that the answer is "since it was coined", which was, notably,
rather more than the 5 minutes ago that you speculated.

Its what it means now that matters, not 100 years ago. See: "gay".

[JMB99]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Its what it means now that matters, not 100 years ago. See: "gay".

You will never find me using the PC version of g*y, at least Musk made a
rather clumsy attempt to remove it but with unfortunate consequences.

[M***@dastardlyhq.com]

On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 16:26:39 +0000

Post by JMB99

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Its what it means now that matters, not 100 years ago. See: "gay".

You will never find me using the PC version of g*y, at least Musk made a

I applaud your resistance but so few people use the original meaning now that
there's not point using it that way anymore.

[Sam Wilson]

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 16:26:39 +0000

Post by JMB99

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Its what it means now that matters, not 100 years ago. See: "gay".

You will never find me using the PC version of g*y, at least Musk made a

I applaud your resistance but so few people use the original meaning now that
there's not point using it that way anymore.

toujours gai toujours gai

Sam

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 14:51:34 +0000

Post by Coffee

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Well , whatever the solution its got to be better than leaving people in
London. At least get them as far as Lille then they can decide what to do
from there even if its getting a taxi.

I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

You're not french. If I was going home I'd sooner be dumped at Ashford and
make my way home from there than left in Paris.

[Ulf_Kutzner]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 14:51:34 +0000

Post by Coffee

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Well , whatever the solution its got to be better than leaving people in
London. At least get them as far as Lille then they can decide what to do
from there even if its getting a taxi.

I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

You're not french. If I was going home I'd sooner be dumped at Ashford and
make my way home from there than left in Paris.

You couldn't leave have left GdN anyway,
and I'm not sure they would have re-opened
Ashford International for you.

[M***@dastardlyhq.com]

On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 07:32:23 +0000

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 14:51:34 +0000

Post by Coffee

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Well , whatever the solution its got to be better than leaving people in
London. At least get them as far as Lille then they can decide what to do
from there even if its getting a taxi.

I think I would prefer to be stranded in London rather than Lille.

You're not french. If I was going home I'd sooner be dumped at Ashford and
make my way home from there than left in Paris.

You couldn't leave have left GdN anyway,
and I'm not sure they would have re-opened
Ashford International for you.

It was an analogy. I'm sure you have them in german too.

[Ulf_Kutzner]

Post by Recliner
Some passengers have opted to travel to Lille instead, where services are
unaffected. From there, Paris is a three-hour bus ride.

Any extra trains from St. Pancras to Lille?

Regards, ULF

[Recliner]

Post by Ulf_Kutzner

Post by Recliner
Some passengers have opted to travel to Lille instead, where services are
unaffected. From there, Paris is a three-hour bus ride.

Any extra trains from St. Pancras to Lille?

Actually, fewer. I think if there were diagrams for Paris-Lon-Bru, then the Lon-Bru service also got cancelled.

[JMB99]

Can't they find some sea mines on the coast and similarly close The
English Channel to the RNLI and BF ferries for a time?