King's Cross Platform 14?

[Silent Hunter]

I've found an undated - but almost certainly before the 1970s construction of the booking hall at the front - scale plan on the Network Rail Archive Site of King's Cross showing the suburban section with six platforms:

http://networkrail.adlibhosting.com/

(Search for "King's Cross")

Were the six platforms needed for parcels traffic as well?

[Theo]

Post by Silent Hunter
I've found an undated - but almost certainly before the 1970s construction
of the booking hall at the front - scale plan on the Network Rail Archive
http://networkrail.adlibhosting.com/
(Search for "King's Cross")
Were the six platforms needed for parcels traffic as well?

Platform 14 was the Hotel Curve, which dived down and joined the Widened
Lines:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/***@N05/3634879469

Looking at this 1874 map, there were originally 3 suburban platforms and
Hotel Curve, and the extra two were slotted in on the site of a turntable:
Loading Image...

Theo

[Roland Perry]

Post by Silent Hunter
I've found an undated - but almost certainly before the 1970s
construction of the booking hall at the front - scale plan on the
Network Rail Archive Site of King's Cross showing the suburban section
http://networkrail.adlibhosting.com/
(Search for "King's Cross")

That went well:

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Post by Silent Hunter
Were the six platforms needed for parcels traffic as well?

[Theo]

Post by Silent Hunter
(Search for "King's Cross")

Not sure if this link works:
Loading Image...

[Roland Perry]

Post by Theo

Post by Silent Hunter
(Search for "King's Cross")

http://networkrail.adlibhosting.com/wwwopacx/wwwopac.ashx?command=getcontent&server=images&value=NRCA120005AD.jpg

Yes, thanks.

[Tufnell Park]

Post by Silent Hunter
http://networkrail.adlibhosting.com/
(Search for "King's Cross")
Were the six platforms needed for parcels traffic as well?

Yes i remember those suburban platforms well, i used to travel to Wood
Green from them.

ISTR a platform slightly to the NE of platform 1 (or did i dream it?)

[Theo]

Post by Tufnell Park
Yes i remember those suburban platforms well, i used to travel to Wood
Green from them.
ISTR a platform slightly to the NE of platform 1 (or did i dream it?)

That's King's Cross York Road. There's a pic here:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/127688-kings-cross-york-road-suburban-platforms/
showing (left to right):

KX York Road platform
Track going into tunnel to join Widened Lines before (more recently)
KX Thameslink station
Loco/refuse siding
Platform 1 in KX main shed


I failed to notice on the 1874 plan that (currently) platforms 9-11 are
marked as 'engine shed', though the layout is the current one.

There's some good pictures of platforms 9-11, platforms 12/13, the Hotel
Curve (14) and the milk/parcel sidings/loco yard here:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/124292-kings-cross-loco-yardmilk-dock-closure/#entry2785426
This one in particular from 1973:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/***@N07/14909189135/
shows:
L-to-R in rear:
7/8 in the main shed
9-11 in the suburban shed
12/13 outside the suburban shed
Hotel Curve platform 14
Milk/parcels dock curving around out of sight
Foreground:
Loco yard
Oil tanks
Far background:
St Pancras main shed

A comment on that thread suggests platform 11 only came into use in 1988,
shortly after the West Sidings were disconnected (possibly related to the
end of Motorail and/or sleepers from KX). Though it seems to be extant in
the above pic.

Theo

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Tufnell Park

Post by Silent Hunter
I've found an undated - but almost certainly before the 1970s
construction of the booking hall at the front - scale plan on the
Network Rail Archive Site of King's Cross showing the suburban section
http://networkrail.adlibhosting.com/
(Search for "King's Cross")

Sorry, that plan must post-date the 1970s resignalling of Kings Cross
since that also involved renumbering of the platforms. The suburban
platforms were originally 11 to 16 (3 and 9 had disappeared without the
rest being renumbered). The hotel curve platform becane 14 but only
lasted until the electric suburban service was introduced.

Post by Tufnell Park

Post by Silent Hunter
Were the six platforms needed for parcels traffic as well?

There wre yet more platforms/docks to the west, used only for
non-passenger trains.

Post by Tufnell Park
Yes i remember those suburban platforms well, i used to travel to Wood
Green from them.
ISTR a platform slightly to the NE of platform 1 (or did i dream it?)

That was York Road platform which was never numbered!

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[Silent Hunter]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Tufnell Park

Post by Silent Hunter
I've found an undated - but almost certainly before the 1970s
construction of the booking hall at the front - scale plan on the
Network Rail Archive Site of King's Cross showing the suburban section
http://networkrail.adlibhosting.com/
(Search for "King's Cross")

Sorry, that plan must post-date the 1970s resignalling of Kings Cross
since that also involved renumbering of the platforms. The suburban
platforms were originally 11 to 16 (3 and 9 had disappeared without the
rest being renumbered). The hotel curve platform becane 14 but only
lasted until the electric suburban service was introduced.

Post by Tufnell Park

Post by Silent Hunter
Were the six platforms needed for parcels traffic as well?

There wre yet more platforms/docks to the west, used only for
non-passenger trains.

Post by Tufnell Park
Yes i remember those suburban platforms well, i used to travel to Wood
Green from them.
ISTR a platform slightly to the NE of platform 1 (or did i dream it?)

That was York Road platform which was never numbered!
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus

It's not got the 1970s built 'temporary' booking office though.

[NY]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Tufnell Park
ISTR a platform slightly to the NE of platform 1 (or did i dream it?)

That was York Road platform which was never numbered!

I've always wondered why the up and down platforms of the Moorgate line (the
Hotel Curve platform and the York Road platform) were on opposite sides of
the main station, with separate single-track tunnels rather than one
twin-track tunnel. Was the line originally built as a single track with a
bidirectional platform and later expanded to a second tunnel and platform,
maybe with a gentler curve on the newer tunnel? Or was it built as two
narrow tunnels and two platforms right from the start?

[Theo]

Post by NY
I've always wondered why the up and down platforms of the Moorgate line (the
Hotel Curve platform and the York Road platform) were on opposite sides of
the main station, with separate single-track tunnels rather than one
twin-track tunnel. Was the line originally built as a single track with a
bidirectional platform and later expanded to a second tunnel and platform,
maybe with a gentler curve on the newer tunnel? Or was it built as two
narrow tunnels and two platforms right from the start?

If you see the 1874 map I linked to, you can see the separate tunnels. The
Widened Lines fully opened in 1866, so it seems unlikely that the separate
tunnels were a plan B - according to Wikipedia they opened in 1863.

In common with early practice, King's Cross had separate arrival and
departure platforms - the current 1 and 8 respectively. It therefore made
sense for up trains to turn left away from platform 1 into York Road, and
for down trains from the Widened Lines to join north of platform 8 on the
Hotel Curve.

With these split arrangements, you might think the Hotel Curve would have
been grade separated to avoid conflicting with the eastbound Widened Line,
but it seems not. However it /did/ avoid conflicting movements with the KX
throat, possibly more important.

Loading Image...
is the Widened Lines track diagram.

It's rather ironic to note that, after ripping up these tracks 40 years ago,
we've just put them back in the form of the Canal Tunnels.
(anyone know what the original 1991 Thameslink 2000 plan did here?)

Theo

[Christopher A. Lee]

Post by NY

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Tufnell Park
ISTR a platform slightly to the NE of platform 1 (or did i dream it?)

That was York Road platform which was never numbered!

I've always wondered why the up and down platforms of the Moorgate line (the
Hotel Curve platform and the York Road platform) were on opposite sides of
the main station, with separate single-track tunnels rather than one
twin-track tunnel. Was the line originally built as a single track with a
bidirectional platform and later expanded to a second tunnel and platform,
maybe with a gentler curve on the newer tunnel? Or was it built as two
narrow tunnels and two platforms right from the start?

It's been too many years, but aren't the lines through Gasworks tunnel
down slow, down fast, up fast, up slow? So the two single-track
tunnels connect with the slow lines? There isn't the room between the
main line platforms and the tunnel to do anything else.

[G***@live.co.uk]

Post by Christopher A. Lee

Post by NY

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Tufnell Park
ISTR a platform slightly to the NE of platform 1 (or did i dream it?)

That was York Road platform which was never numbered!

I've always wondered why the up and down platforms of the Moorgate line (the
Hotel Curve platform and the York Road platform) were on opposite sides of
the main station, with separate single-track tunnels rather than one
twin-track tunnel. Was the line originally built as a single track with a
bidirectional platform and later expanded to a second tunnel and platform,
maybe with a gentler curve on the newer tunnel? Or was it built as two
narrow tunnels and two platforms right from the start?

It's been too many years, but aren't the lines through Gasworks tunnel
down slow, down fast, up fast, up slow? So the two single-track
tunnels connect with the slow lines? There isn't the room between the
main line platforms and the tunnel to do anything else.

That's how it used to be pre-electrification but now the lines are, from west to east, down and up slow, down and up fast, so the new line through the Canal Tunnels connects, logically, into the slow lines. There is a flyover just north of Copenhagen Tunnel that takes the up slow over the fast lines to remove conflicting movements.

[Christopher A. Lee]

Post by G***@live.co.uk

Post by Christopher A. Lee

Post by NY

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Tufnell Park
ISTR a platform slightly to the NE of platform 1 (or did i dream it?)

That was York Road platform which was never numbered!

I've always wondered why the up and down platforms of the Moorgate line (the
Hotel Curve platform and the York Road platform) were on opposite sides of
the main station, with separate single-track tunnels rather than one
twin-track tunnel. Was the line originally built as a single track with a
bidirectional platform and later expanded to a second tunnel and platform,
maybe with a gentler curve on the newer tunnel? Or was it built as two
narrow tunnels and two platforms right from the start?

It's been too many years, but aren't the lines through Gasworks tunnel
down slow, down fast, up fast, up slow? So the two single-track
tunnels connect with the slow lines? There isn't the room between the
main line platforms and the tunnel to do anything else.

That's how it used to be pre-electrification but now the lines are, from
west to east, down and up slow, down and up fast, so the new line
through the Canal Tunnels connects, logically, into the slow lines.
There is a flyover just north of Copenhagen Tunnel that takes the up
slow over the fast lines to remove conflicting movements.

Thanks. I was remembering from my trainspotting days, too many decades
ago.

[Stephen Furley]

What was the building with the arched roof spans behind the oil tanks?