Bristol - Glasgow/Edinburgh sleepers (1980s)

[Jack Taylor]

A quick query. Does anyone remember the name that was given to the 21:2x
(times varied from year to year) Bristol Temple Meads to Glasgow/Edinburgh
overnight train during the 1980s? I've checked Joyce Whitchurch's list of
named trains and am unable to find the name that *I* believed that it
carried, so I'd be interested to see if anyone else comes up with the same
name.

[Tony Day]

Post by Jack Taylor
A quick query. Does anyone remember the name that was given to the 21:2x
(times varied from year to year) Bristol Temple Meads to Glasgow/Edinburgh
overnight train during the 1980s? I've checked Joyce Whitchurch's list of
named trains and am unable to find the name that *I* believed that it
carried, so I'd be interested to see if anyone else comes up with the same
name.

Can't remember the name, but did it not run from Plymouth (it used to often
trundle into Exeter whilst I was waiting for a morning London train).

Tony

[Stu Wright]

Post by Jack Taylor
A quick query. Does anyone remember the name that was given to the 21:2x
(times varied from year to year) Bristol Temple Meads to Glasgow/Edinburgh
overnight train during the 1980s? I've checked Joyce Whitchurch's list of
named trains and am unable to find the name that *I* believed that it
carried, so I'd be interested to see if anyone else comes up with the same
name.

Hi Gang;

I seem to remember that it was just known as 'S19'....as in 1S19..its
reporting code.

--
Regards to Most
STU from Swindon
http://stusphotos.fotopic.net/

If a job is worth doing, then why do I work so hard???

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:28:56 -0000 someone who may be "Jack Taylor"

Post by Jack Taylor
Does anyone remember the name that was given to the 21:2x
(times varied from year to year) Bristol Temple Meads to Glasgow/Edinburgh
overnight train during the 1980s?

I do not recall the train having a name.

Like another poster I think that the train ran further west than
Temple Meads, though I am less sure of this than the question of a
name.

[Mark Annand]

Post by David Hansen
Like another poster I think that the train ran further west than
Temple Meads, though I am less sure of this than the question of a
name.

When it finished it was running between Plymouth and Glasgow/Edinburgh ...

[Proctor46]

Re: Bristol - Glasgow/Edinburgh sleepers (1980s)

it was running in may 1966 with no shown name

[Ian Johnston]

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:29:54 UTC, Mark Annand
<***@in_valid.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

: When it finished it was running between Plymouth and Glasgow/Edinburgh ...

Supported almost entirely, I am told, by Devonport - Rosyth naval
traffic, and closed with Rosyth.

I used to take the Oxford - Glasgow sleeper regularly. It was one
sleeper attached to the last Bournemouth ( I think) to Birmingham
train, followed by some shunting, a coupleof hours in a siding, some
more shunting and, if you were going to Glasgow, a rather woozy change
at Carstairs in the small hours.

Ian

--

[Mark Annand]

Post by Ian Johnston
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:29:54 UTC, Mark Annand
: When it finished it was running between Plymouth and Glasgow/Edinburgh ...
Supported almost entirely, I am told, by Devonport - Rosyth naval
traffic, and closed with Rosyth.

Around 50000 passengers per year when it closed apparently ... (I don't
have a source for that figure). Bristol airport has very many more
services to Scotland now, and the culture for angloscottish travel from
the west country, not to mention the ticket prices, have very much
changed in favour of air for the time being. What's the average journey
length on Virgin Crosscountry now?

[Peter Masson]

Post by Mark Annand
What's the average journey
length on Virgin Crosscountry now?

90 miles, according to Uncle Roger in January MR. But have they lost
long-distance custom, or just gained a lot of short-distance traffic?

Peter

[Ian Johnston]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 19:16:36 UTC, Mark Annand
<***@in_valid.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

: Ian Johnston wrote:

: > Supported almost entirely, I am told, by Devonport - Rosyth naval
: > traffic, and closed with Rosyth.
:
: Around 50000 passengers per year when it closed apparently ... (I don't
: have a source for that figure).

That's 190 passengers ever week day night, which sounds a bit high, to
put it mildly.

: Bristol airport has very many more
: services to Scotland now, and the culture for angloscottish travel from
: the west country, not to mention the ticket prices, have very much
: changed in favour of air for the time being.

Indeed. When BA were the only airline on the route the cheapest fare
was around 100 quid, and you normally ended up paying 130 minimum.
Nowadays it's pretty easy to get fifty quid return on EasyJet.

: What's the average journey
: length on Virgin Crosscountry now?

Approximately forever. Six, seven hours?

Ian

--

[Mark Annand]

Post by Ian Johnston
: Around 50000 passengers per year when it closed apparently ... (I don't
: have a source for that figure).
That's 190 passengers ever week day night, which sounds a bit high, to
put it mildly.

The 50000 a year figure was floating about at the time it was withdrawn.
I'm trying to remember the actual train: the three times I caught it or
saw someone off on the thing, it was still a substantial train, and
there were plenty of passengers about, it was by no means unused ...

Oh, hang on, it's OK, it's still running apparently :-)

http://www.dundee.ac.uk/cepmlp/water/html/getting_to_dundee.html

[Patrick Hearn]

Post by Ian Johnston
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:29:54 UTC, Mark Annand
: When it finished it was running between Plymouth and Glasgow/Edinburgh ...
Supported almost entirely, I am told, by Devonport - Rosyth naval
traffic, and closed with Rosyth.
(snip)>
--

(Engage Reminisce mode)

I used to use the Bristol -> Ed or Glasgow sleepers on business:
everyone else flew. Rail was (and would be today) a much better
experience. I didn't have to be up at 5 to drive out to park to get
the car park bus to queue to book in to wait to queue to walk to a bus
to get a 'plane etc. as one has to today.

(No ribald comments please!) We also used it to go on our honeymoon in
1986...

PH

[Ian Johnston]

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 21:20:44 UTC, ***@virgin.net (Patrick
Hearn) wrote:

: (No ribald comments please!) We also used it to go on our honeymoon in
: 1986...

I hope you didn't fall out during the journey.

Ian


--

[Marcus Kerr]

Post by Jack Taylor
A quick query. Does anyone remember the name that was given to the 21:2x
(times varied from year to year) Bristol Temple Meads to Glasgow/Edinburgh
overnight train during the 1980s? I've checked Joyce Whitchurch's list of
named trains and am unable to find the name that *I* believed that it
carried, so I'd be interested to see if anyone else comes up with the same
name.

During the late 1970s and early 1980s this train varied its route and
headcode accordingly

1S19 21:30 Bristol TM - Glasgow
1S23 21:30 Bristol TM - Edinburgh
1V56 23:55 Glasgow - Bristol TM
1V57 23:40 Edinburgh - Bristol TM

By the early 1980s this had become :
1S23 21:45 Bristol TM - Glasgow (with Carstairs - Edinburgh portion)
1V32 23:50 Glasgow - Bristol TM (Edinburgh - Carstairs portion)

Is this the same train (1S19 and 1V56) that evolved into the lone
Plymouth - Edinburgh - Glasgow and Glasgow - Edinburgh - Plymouth
overnight sleeper?

By the time I joined Overnight Services, the train had lost any name
it previously had

[Jack Taylor]

Post by Marcus Kerr

Post by Jack Taylor
A quick query. Does anyone remember the name that was given to the 21:2x
(times varied from year to year) Bristol Temple Meads to

Glasgow/Edinburgh

Post by Marcus Kerr

Post by Jack Taylor
overnight train during the 1980s? I've checked Joyce Whitchurch's list of
named trains and am unable to find the name that *I* believed that it
carried, so I'd be interested to see if anyone else comes up with the same
name.

During the late 1970s and early 1980s this train varied its route and
headcode accordingly
1S19 21:30 Bristol TM - Glasgow
1S23 21:30 Bristol TM - Edinburgh
1V56 23:55 Glasgow - Bristol TM
1V57 23:40 Edinburgh - Bristol TM
1S23 21:45 Bristol TM - Glasgow (with Carstairs - Edinburgh portion)
1V32 23:50 Glasgow - Bristol TM (Edinburgh - Carstairs portion)
Is this the same train (1S19 and 1V56) that evolved into the lone
Plymouth - Edinburgh - Glasgow and Glasgow - Edinburgh - Plymouth
overnight sleeper?
By the time I joined Overnight Services, the train had lost any name
it previously had

[Proctor46]

Post by Marcus Kerr
By the time I joined Overnight Services,

any good stories about the time you spent in the job? p46

["GreenArrow"]

Post by Marcus Kerr

Post by Jack Taylor
A quick query. Does anyone remember the name that was given to the 21:2x
(times varied from year to year) Bristol Temple Meads to

Glasgow/Edinburgh

Post by Marcus Kerr

Post by Jack Taylor
overnight train during the 1980s? I've checked Joyce Whitchurch's list of
named trains and am unable to find the name that *I* believed that it
carried, so I'd be interested to see if anyone else comes up with the same
name.

During the late 1970s and early 1980s this train varied its route and
headcode accordingly
1S19 21:30 Bristol TM - Glasgow
1S23 21:30 Bristol TM - Edinburgh
1V56 23:55 Glasgow - Bristol TM
1V57 23:40 Edinburgh - Bristol TM
1S23 21:45 Bristol TM - Glasgow (with Carstairs - Edinburgh portion)
1V32 23:50 Glasgow - Bristol TM (Edinburgh - Carstairs portion)
Is this the same train (1S19 and 1V56) that evolved into the lone
Plymouth - Edinburgh - Glasgow and Glasgow - Edinburgh - Plymouth
overnight sleeper?
By the time I joined Overnight Services, the train had lost any name
it previously had

Didn't it end up running from Edinburgh to Glasgow then back out again, with
seperate portions for Poole and Plymouth with Motorail vans for Plymouth as
well?

ISTR my Dad catching this for Southampton from Glasgow in the early 90's.
Formation was (IIRC, from the buffers at Glasgow) 3xGUV (Motorail) + BG +
4xMk3 Sleeper + 3xMk2D/E/F TSO + 2xMk3 Sleeper + Mk2C BSO + 2xMk2D/E/F TSO -
the maximum 16-coach train for the WCML. IIRC it left behind a Class 90, the
full train having run from Edinburgh behind an 87 via Carstairs.

GreenArrow

[Marcus Kerr]

"\"GreenArrow\""

Post by "GreenArrow"

Post by Marcus Kerr
By the time I joined Overnight Services, the train had lost any name
it previously had

Didn't it end up running from Edinburgh to Glasgow then back out again, with
seperate portions for Poole and Plymouth with Motorail vans for Plymouth as
well?

I only worked on this train on 3 occasions during 1992
1.
I joined it at Edinburgh, having just arrived from Glasgow Central
The train then went back to Carstairs, then headed south
I then left the train at Crewe and returned north passenger (being
relieved by another member of Euston staff, who had been waiting for
some time!)

2 & 3
Worked the entire diagram :
Glasgow - Edinburgh - Plymouth (1 overnight stay)
Plymouth - Edinburgh - Glasgow

At this time the set was made up of :
GUV-GUV-NHA-SLE-SLEP-RFO(T)-SLE-SLEP

An electric loco would take the train from Glasgow Central to
Edinburgh (that loco usually working one of the later Aberdeen or
Inverness sleepers southbound to Euston)
An 86 was attached to take the train south, where it was replaced by a
Class 47 at Birmingham
On rare occasions, the 47 would be replaced at Bristol TM

[Jack]

Post by Marcus Kerr
During the late 1970s and early 1980s this train varied its route and
headcode accordingly
1S19 21:30 Bristol TM - Glasgow
1S23 21:30 Bristol TM - Edinburgh
1V56 23:55 Glasgow - Bristol TM
1V57 23:40 Edinburgh - Bristol TM
1S23 21:45 Bristol TM - Glasgow (with Carstairs - Edinburgh portion)
1V32 23:50 Glasgow - Bristol TM (Edinburgh - Carstairs portion)
Is this the same train (1S19 and 1V56) that evolved into the lone
Plymouth - Edinburgh - Glasgow and Glasgow - Edinburgh - Plymouth
overnight sleeper?
By the time I joined Overnight Services, the train had lost any name
it previously had

The name was applied in the mid to late 80s, it certainly had it in
85/86/87, when I was doing very silly "February Fudge" YP moves on it
almost every weekend when the offer was on.

Btw, by the late 80s, there were two services, the "normal" one, which
ran all week and was 1V32 / 1S19, and the somewhat legendary "Paington
Relief", which was 1V29 / 1S23, Summer FSO, solid Mk1 stock including
compartments and invariably roared from Glasgow to Birmingham. I've
still got the moves book from those days, will get round to transcribing
it all some time.

In the 80s it (The Night Caledonian) split/joined at Carstairs.

[Peter Masson]

Post by Jack
The name was applied in the mid to late 80s, it certainly had it in
85/86/87, when I was doing very silly "February Fudge" YP moves on it
almost every weekend when the offer was on.
Btw, by the late 80s, there were two services, the "normal" one, which
ran all week and was 1V32 / 1S19, and the somewhat legendary "Paington
Relief", which was 1V29 / 1S23, Summer FSO, solid Mk1 stock including
compartments and invariably roared from Glasgow to Birmingham. I've
still got the moves book from those days, will get round to transcribing
it all some time.
In the 80s it (The Night Caledonian) split/joined at Carstairs.

Can anyone confirm for certain that this train ever had an official name,
and if so what it was and in which years it carried it. 'The Night
Caledonian' was applied to the Euston - Glasgow sleeper (and limited seats),
for example in 1990. Earlier the London - Glasgow sleeper (only) had been
the 'Night Limited', and in the 1980s the London - Glasgow and London -
Aberdeen overnight seats trains were marketed as 'The Nightrider.'

Peter

[Jack Taylor]

Post by Peter Masson

Post by Jack
In the 80s it (The Night Caledonian) split/joined at Carstairs.

Can anyone confirm for certain that this train ever had an official name,
and if so what it was and in which years it carried it. 'The Night
Caledonian' was applied to the Euston - Glasgow sleeper (and limited seats),
for example in 1990. Earlier the London - Glasgow sleeper (only) had been
the 'Night Limited', and in the 1980s the London - Glasgow and London -
Aberdeen overnight seats trains were marketed as 'The Nightrider.'

That was what was causing me the confusion, Peter. I always knew the Bristol
train as "The Night Caledonian" in the early to mid 1980s, when I used to
use it regularly. However, the mists of time were beginning to cloud my
memory and, as I also remembered the WCML version, I was wondering if I had
confused the two.

[d405]

Post by Peter Masson

Post by Jack
In the 80s it (The Night Caledonian) split/joined at Carstairs.

Can anyone confirm for certain that this train ever had an official name,
and if so what it was and in which years it carried it. 'The Night
Caledonian' was applied to the Euston - Glasgow sleeper (and limited seats),
for example in 1990. Earlier the London - Glasgow sleeper (only) had been
the 'Night Limited', and in the 1980s the London - Glasgow and London -
Aberdeen overnight seats trains were marketed as 'The Nightrider.'

It was the night Caledonian. The name may have moved to/from the London
sleepers at some time.

Also, does anyone remember The Clansman when it ran to Paignton, instead
of Euston?

--
d405

[Hils]

Jack Taylor writes

Post by Jack Taylor
A quick query. Does anyone remember the name that was given to the 21:2x
(times varied from year to year) Bristol Temple Meads to Glasgow/Edinburgh
overnight train during the 1980s? I've checked Joyce Whitchurch's list of
named trains and am unable to find the name that *I* believed that it
carried, so I'd be interested to see if anyone else comes up with the same
name.

It didn't have a name in the 1982 NRT, and I don't recall it ever having
one, though the last time I saw it would probably have been 1984.
Perhaps if it had had a name it would have lasted longer. :-)

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Hils
Jack Taylor writes

Post by Jack Taylor
A quick query. Does anyone remember the name that was given to the 21:2x
(times varied from year to year) Bristol Temple Meads to Glasgow/Edinburgh
overnight train during the 1980s? I've checked Joyce Whitchurch's list of
named trains and am unable to find the name that *I* believed that it
carried, so I'd be interested to see if anyone else comes up with the same
name.

It didn't have a name in the 1982 NRT, and I don't recall it ever having
one, though the last time I saw it would probably have been 1984.
Perhaps if it had had a name it would have lasted longer. :-)

It's not listed in C J Allen's Titled Trains of the Western, but that only
appears to cover trains wholely within the Western Region.

[Nick Lawford]

"Jack Taylor" <***@Carney.co.uk> wrote in message news:401522e0$0$14998$***@news.ukonline.co.uk

I used the train many many times on all sorts of sections long and
short.

As far as I can recall it never had a name.

The daily train was simply known as 'S19 and 'V56/'V62 (dependant on
timetable) with the dated FO/SuO as 'S23 and 'V57/'V61.

Digressing a bit, I noted one poster referred to it was running in 1966.
For some reason I always thought it was a Birmingham train until 1974
completion of through wiring north of Weaver Junction when it was
extended from/to Bristol.

Am I wrong - or was perhaps there a gap on the o/n service while they
wired the WCML ? Or was the 1966 train up the North & West ?

--
Nick

[Proctor46]

Post by Nick Lawford
it was running in 1966.

it was running in May 1961.....

[Peter Masson]

Post by Nick Lawford
Digressing a bit, I noted one poster referred to it was running in 1966.
For some reason I always thought it was a Birmingham train until 1974
completion of through wiring north of Weaver Junction when it was
extended from/to Bristol.
Am I wrong - or was perhaps there a gap on the o/n service while they
wired the WCML ? Or was the 1966 train up the North & West ?

I haven't dug out a 1966-67 timetable, but in 1965-66 there were:
A Newcastle - Bristol sleeper (still running in 1967-68)
A Manchester - Plymouth sleeper via Hereford (not running in 1967-68 - I
believe that in earlier years this had through carriages, but not sleepers,
from Glasgow)
A Glasgow/Edinburgh - Birmingham sleeper (via Carlisle - I think this had a
continual existence until it was extended to Bristol or beyond).
All these were seats and sleepers - I think the Newcastle train also
conveyed a TPO.

For a few years in the 1980s the Scotland - Plymouth sleeper also conveyed a
South Coast (Southampton and IIRC Bournemouth) portion.

Peter

[Nick Lawford]

Post by Peter Masson
A Newcastle - Bristol sleeper (still running in 1967-68)
A Manchester - Plymouth sleeper via Hereford (not running in 1967-68 - I
believe that in earlier years this had through carriages, but not sleepers,
from Glasgow)
A Glasgow/Edinburgh - Birmingham sleeper (via Carlisle - I think this had a
continual existence until it was extended to Bristol or beyond).

Yeah this is what I think. The 1S19 Bristol BIRMINGHAM WCML Glas/Edin is
not reall a long stabnding serive but a re-routing / diversion /
combination of assorted other services some of which were via North &
West (i.e. Hereford). Maybe I am wrng in saying 1974 WCML sparking -
could be 1971 (or was it 1970) when XC was overhauled ?

--
Nick

[Nick Lawford]

Post by Nick Lawford
Yeah this is what I think. The 1S19 Bristol BIRMINGHAM WCML Glas/Edin is
not reall a long stabnding serive but a re-routing / diversion /
combination of assorted other services some of which were via North &
West (i.e. Hereford). Maybe I am wrng in saying 1974 WCML sparking -
could be 1971 (or was it 1970) when XC was overhauled ?

Good grief my typing - nd not even under the affluence of incohol.

Yeah this is what I think. The 1S19 Bristol BIRMINGHAM WCML Glas/Edin is
not really a long standing service but a re-routing / diversion /
combination of assorted other services some of which were via North &
West (i.e. Hereford). Maybe I am wrong in saying 1974 WCML sparking -
could be 1971 (or was it 1970) when XC was overhauled ?

--
Nick

[Peter Masson]

Post by Nick Lawford
Yeah this is what I think. The 1S19 Bristol BIRMINGHAM WCML Glas/Edin is
not really a long standing service but a re-routing / diversion /
combination of assorted other services some of which were via North &
West (i.e. Hereford). Maybe I am wrong in saying 1974 WCML sparking -
could be 1971 (or was it 1970) when XC was overhauled ?

I think 1974, when it was extended to Bristol - Plymouth came quite a bit
later. The 1971-72 timetable shows the traditional Birmingham -
Glasgow/Edinburgh seats and sleepers. No sleepers to Scotland from the
Southwest, but the Newcastle - Bristol seats and sleepers still ran, and
were still timed for postal purposes (departure around 1930, arrival around
0430 in each direction).

Peter

[Nick Lawford]

Post by Peter Masson
I think 1974, when it was extended to Bristol

Yep - this is what I thought when I first commented.

I recall it as at the time I lived in Salisbury - and it brought Glasgow
and Edinburgh within reach of not only a Day Return fare but one where
there was enough time to do something, not merely a 'time to get there,
time to get back, notime to do anything' trip. We cursed in a way as it
took electrification to introduce it, else we would have done it for 50s
over Shap and Beattock. It is that which tells me there was no train
1971/2/3 era.

--
Nick

[Jack]

Post by Jack Taylor
A quick query. Does anyone remember the name that was given to the 21:2x
(times varied from year to year) Bristol Temple Meads to Glasgow/Edinburgh
overnight train during the 1980s? I've checked Joyce Whitchurch's list of
named trains and am unable to find the name that *I* believed that it
carried, so I'd be interested to see if anyone else comes up with the same
name.

It was "The Night Caledonian", and I travelled on it many times! Was
usually a mix of Mk2b/c TSOs / BSOs with Mk3 SLEEs and SLEPs, but
occasionally a Mk2c FK would appear in the formation.

A hellfire train if ever there was one.

Heading north one night, the guard opened the gangway doors and let me
walk through the sleepers to the rear coach to enjoy the extreme thrash
from the pair of 37s that banked it (16 coaches or thereabouts!) up the
Lickey. Monster Power! :-)

Was 1S19 Northbound, and 1V62, later 1V32, Southbound.

23:55 off Glasgow, and as stated, 21:bongo off Bristol. Depending on
the date and day of the week, the southern end of this service could be
anywhere from Paington to Bristol, I think it even ran to Penzance
occasionally.

[Jack Taylor]

Post by Jack
It was "The Night Caledonian", and I travelled on it many times! Was
usually a mix of Mk2b/c TSOs / BSOs with Mk3 SLEEs and SLEPs, but
occasionally a Mk2c FK would appear in the formation.

Thanks, Jack! That's exactly the name that I was waiting to hear. I also
used to use it quite often, on bashing trips up to Scotland. If you were
really lucky (?) you would get a Peak on it from BTM to BHM - lucky in that
it would then require the assistance of the Lickey bankers (a pair of 37s).
A 47 never seemed to need any assistance over the top.

[Nick Lawford]

Post by Jack Taylor
really lucky (?) you would get a Peak on it from BTM to BHM - lucky in that
it would then require the assistance of the Lickey bankers (a pair of 37s).
A 47 never seemed to need any assistance over the top.

It was no matter of luck to be banked.

It was booked for mandatory banking irrespective of head end power .....
45 47 50 anything

...... but if you were unbanked are you sure you were on the *full* 1S19
train on the *full* booked load ? Through winter all dates, and summer
M-Th and Sat it was always banked. On summer dated FO and Su0 when it
was split into 2 trains 1S19 and 1S23 then the two smaller trains did
not require banking.

Or, you were very at the very opposite in terms on chance with unluck in
that the 37s had been called away on some other rescue mission and were
not in the area at the right time. Even so, if the 37s were well away
say dragging an HST, it was normal for something - if only a 31 - to
come out to bank. I have been hit this way with a 47 banking, the 37s
were on some demic tram to Bristol.

There might have been a period towards the end when the load was
lighter, but even so, it would be down to driver choice, not a 47 v. 45
issue.

The full 1S19 train was so heavy that even on occasions - usually Sat.
nights when diverted away from Lickey via Old Hill, it still required
mandatory assistance from Worcester via Old Hill toe New.ST. I have very
vivid memories of 37+50 in slipping badly Old Hill tunnel as one of the
loudest experiences on a UK train.

Also the southbound train required banking if diverted via Cannock. A 47
would be attched at Rugeley and push, being detached - not dropped, this
one was coupled - at Walsall or Bescot (or other locations IIRC).

--
Nick

[SiC]

Post by Nick Lawford
Also the southbound train required banking if diverted via Cannock. A 47
would be attched at Rugeley and push, being detached - not dropped, this
one was coupled - at Walsall or Bescot (or other locations IIRC).

What sort of dates would we be talking here? IMX (from the early 80's
onwards), the Cannock assisting loco was attached at Stafford and worked
through to New St, and as a pilot rather than trailing.

Indeed, in one winter timetable there was even a booked 47/4 diagram for
it - Preston to Crewe on the Glasgow-Euston overnight, light to Stafford,
pilot 1V32 to New St, and then light to Oxley for the Wolverhampton-Poole.

Later in the 80's it was merely a light loco from Bescot, which worked to
New St and then retired back to Bescot. In these times it was often "fixed"
for a 37, 56 or 58.

SiC

[Nick Lawford]

Post by SiC
What sort of dates would we be talking here? IMX (from the early 80's
onwards), the Cannock assisting loco was attached at Stafford and worked
through to New St, and as a pilot rather than trailing.

Up to and incl. winter 81/82 timetable from my records.

Last time I did this (by which I mean I got caught by having to do it)
was on Sun morning 07/03/82 with a 47/4 train engine on 1V56 and nb os
47/0 assisting Rugeley > Bescot ... however ... you have cast doubt in
my mind concerning method of operation ... my notes do not indicate it
was banking ... and the default in my records means it was on the front
... yet my memory tells me it was pushing. A lapse in my records.

Post by SiC
Indeed, in one winter timetable there was even a booked 47/4 diagram for
it - Preston to Crewe on the Glasgow-Euston overnight, light to Stafford,
pilot 1V32 to New St,

IIRC this is the post Mk.1 SLEP working where 47/4s were booked to do it
by permanent diagram. If you go back to late 70s / early 80s, the fixed
diagrams were electrics, and they issued week by week specific diesel
diagrams even if the engineering plan was the same week in week out.

I never ever did the train in its Mk.3 SLEP days, only Mk.1.

Post by SiC
Later in the 80's it was merely a light loco from Bescot, which worked to
New St and then retired back to Bescot. In these times it was often "fixed"
for a 37, 56 or 58.

Indeed it was; I never did it.

--
Nick