Proper use of the emergency alarm

[Marcus Potter]

What is and what is not proper use of the emergency alarm? In other words, when should and when shouldn't the emergency alarm be pulled or pushed?

[Marc Van Dyck]

Post by Marcus Potter
What is and what is not proper use of the emergency alarm? In other words,
when should and when shouldn't the emergency alarm be pulled or pushed?

When I was young (16 y.o. or so) and already interested in trains, I
once was in my favourite place, the first compartment in the first car,
just after the loc. Leaving a station, I noticed something wrong, like
if the train was giving more resistance to the loco. Soon after,
strange
smells started to arrive too. I immediately taught "aha - brakes
locked"
and started asking myself, should I pull the emergency brake or not. I
did not dare doing so and instead went down the train to look for the
guard. We finally were stopped at the next station, the four tyres of
the first bogie red hot. With the pulling force of the loc and only 3
cars in tow, the driver did not feel anything. But I still wonder
today,
should I have done it, and if yes, what would have been the reaction ?
Not sure I would have been believed... And also, emergency braking
with red hot tires is also may be not a good idea. Still happy that my
diagnostic was right, though...

[Marcus Potter]

Post by Marc Van Dyck

Post by Marcus Potter
What is and what is not proper use of the emergency alarm? In other words,
when should and when shouldn't the emergency alarm be pulled or pushed?

When I was young (16 y.o. or so) and already interested in trains, I
once was in my favourite place, the first compartment in the first car,
just after the loc. Leaving a station, I noticed something wrong, like
if the train was giving more resistance to the loco. Soon after,
strange
smells started to arrive too. I immediately taught "aha - brakes
locked"
and started asking myself, should I pull the emergency brake or not. I
did not dare doing so and instead went down the train to look for the
guard. We finally were stopped at the next station, the four tyres of
the first bogie red hot. With the pulling force of the loc and only 3
cars in tow, the driver did not feel anything. But I still wonder
today,
should I have done it, and if yes, what would have been the reaction ?
Not sure I would have been believed... And also, emergency braking
with red hot tires is also may be not a good idea. Still happy that my
diagnostic was right, though...
--
Marc Van Dyck

Yes because by doing so you let the traincrew know about the problem ASAP.

[BrianW]

Post by Marcus Potter
What is and what is not proper use of the emergency alarm? In other words, when should and when shouldn't the emergency alarm be pulled or pushed?

Didn't you ask this about a month ago?

My thought too.

[Marcus Potter]

Post by Marcus Potter
What is and what is not proper use of the emergency alarm? In other words, when should and when shouldn't the emergency alarm be pulled or pushed?

Didn't you ask this about a month ago?
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Arab Strap - 1999 - Elephant Shoe

No, I asked how to stop a train. Not when to stop a train.

[Charles Ellson]

On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 12:19:12 -0800 (PST), Marcus Potter

Post by Marcus Potter
What is and what is not proper use of the emergency alarm? In other words, when should and when shouldn't the emergency alarm be pulled or pushed?

When not stopping the train would be worse than stopping it.
Don't pull it if reaching the next stop is a necessity, e.g. a
seriously unwell passenger.
Pull it if allowing the train to keep going is more dangerous, e.g. a
serious fire where evacuation into adjacent vehicles will not be
sufficient for safety.
Also make allowance for the presence of passenger-driver
communication/crew in cases where an unscheduled stop at a station
would be desirable.
As before, appropriate local knowledge is relevant.
<snip>

[Marcus Potter]

Post by Charles Ellson
On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 12:19:12 -0800 (PST), Marcus Potter

Post by Marcus Potter
What is and what is not proper use of the emergency alarm? In other words, when should and when shouldn't the emergency alarm be pulled or pushed?

When not stopping the train would be worse than stopping it.
Don't pull it if reaching the next stop is a necessity, e.g. a
seriously unwell passenger.
Pull it if allowing the train to keep going is more dangerous, e.g. a
serious fire where evacuation into adjacent vehicles will not be
sufficient for safety.
Also make allowance for the presence of passenger-driver
communication/crew in cases where an unscheduled stop at a station
would be desirable.
As before, appropriate local knowledge is relevant.
<snip>

What if you do not have any "appropriate local knowledge" and none of the other passengers nearby do either?

[GB]

Post by Charles Ellson
Pull it if allowing the train to keep going is more dangerous, e.g. a
serious fire where evacuation into adjacent vehicles will not be
sufficient for safety.

You could simplify that: Pull it if there's a fire. Let the train
manager decide what to do about it, but a stationary train is a lot less
lethal than a moving one.

[Alexsandr]

Post by GB

Post by Charles Ellson
Pull it if allowing the train to keep going is more dangerous, e.g. a
serious fire where evacuation into adjacent vehicles will not be
sufficient for safety.

You could simplify that: Pull it if there's a fire. Let the train
manager decide what to do about it, but a stationary train is a lot less
lethal than a moving one.

especially if your camping stove expoldes

[U***@web.de]

Post by Alexsandr

Post by GB

Post by Charles Ellson
Pull it if allowing the train to keep going is more dangerous, e.g. a
serious fire where evacuation into adjacent vehicles will not be
sufficient for safety.

You could simplify that: Pull it if there's a fire. Let the train
manager decide what to do about it, but a stationary train is a lot less
lethal than a moving one.

especially if your camping stove expoldes

This is Pakistan.

[U***@web.de]

Post by GB

Post by Charles Ellson
Pull it if allowing the train to keep going is more dangerous, e.g. a
serious fire where evacuation into adjacent vehicles will not be
sufficient for safety.

You could simplify that: Pull it if there's a fire. Let the train
manager decide what to do about it, but a stationary train is a lot less
lethal than a moving one.

It is less lethal when stopping outside a tunnel.

[Marcus Potter]

Post by GB

Post by Charles Ellson
Pull it if allowing the train to keep going is more dangerous, e.g. a
serious fire where evacuation into adjacent vehicles will not be
sufficient for safety.

You could simplify that: Pull it if there's a fire. Let the train
manager decide what to do about it, but a stationary train is a lot less
lethal than a moving one.

Not neccessarily, it depends on the type of train. Some trains have an alarm which will slam on the brakes (and possibly worse still give no indication to anyone that it has been pulled) and some have one which enables communication with the driver and can be overriden and some have one that enables communication with the driver and doesn't apply the brakes.

[Stephen Furley]

They would not slam on the brakes: the air would be let into or out of the brake pipe slowly through a small valve. The driver would see the gradual loss of air or vacuum on his/her gauge and could then control the rate of application of the brake.

My advice would be that if you are in any doubt as to whether the situation justifies pulling the emergency device or not then you should pull it. Better to be on the safe side.

[Charles Ellson]

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 12:32:06 -0800 (PST), Stephen Furley

Post by Stephen Furley
They would not slam on the brakes: the air would be let into or out of the brake pipe slowly through a small valve. The driver would see the gradual loss of air or vacuum on his/her gauge and could then control the rate of application of the brake.
My advice would be that if you are in any doubt as to whether the situation justifies pulling the emergency device or not then you should pull it. Better to be on the safe side.

IME if someone pulls the alarm as a train is leaving the station then
the driver will often apply full emergency braking, presumably
expecting a trapped or fallen passenger. Otherwise the above usually
happens.
On LU the practice in tube tunnels is to proceed to the next station
if the train is no longer partly within a platform area.

[GWR user]

Post by Charles Ellson
On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 12:19:12 -0800 (PST), Marcus Potter

Post by Marcus Potter
In other words, when should and when shouldn't the emergency alarm
be pulled or pushed?

When not stopping the train would be worse than stopping it.
Don't pull it if reaching the next stop is a necessity

I just post this recent piece of news because it's the perfect
example of when *NOT* to pull the alarm.

It ocurred yesterday in the Madrid metro when somebody with a knife started
threatening the passengers. And yes, somebody *did pull* the alarm.

The result: the train stopped in the middle of a tunnel with a
crazy man with a big knife inside.

Fortunately the situation was defused by an off-duty police officer
who was travelling on the train and there were no victims.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elconfidencial.com%2Fespana%2F2019-11-08%2Fpanico-metro-madrid-guardia-civil-ataque-machete-vagon_2315959

https://www.elconfidencial.com/espana/2019-11-08/panico-metro-madrid-guardia-civil-ataque-machete-vagon_2315959

[s***@gowanhill.com]

Post by GWR user
I just post this recent piece of news because it's the perfect
example of when *NOT* to pull the alarm.
It ocurred yesterday in the Madrid metro when somebody with a knife started
threatening the passengers. And yes, somebody *did pull* the alarm.

They probably didn't know what else to do.

It's really a perfect example of why the old alarm-stops-the-train principle is flawed. So many places (including railway stations) have "help points" that many people will see "alarm" and expect to be able to speak to someone who will tell them what to do.

And with modern datacomms there's really no reason why that shouldn't happen now, even if the "someone" is in the CCTV centre fifty miles away.

Of course the Spanish are awfully excitable. In Britain everyone would have just hidden behind their Metros and tutted very quietly.

Owain

[Charles Ellson]

Post by s***@gowanhill.com

Post by GWR user
I just post this recent piece of news because it's the perfect
example of when *NOT* to pull the alarm.
It ocurred yesterday in the Madrid metro when somebody with a knife started
threatening the passengers. And yes, somebody *did pull* the alarm.

They probably didn't know what else to do.
It's really a perfect example of why the old alarm-stops-the-train principle is flawed. So many places (including railway stations) have "help points" that many people will see "alarm" and expect to be able to speak to someone who will tell them what to do.
And with modern datacomms there's really no reason why that shouldn't happen now, even if the "someone" is in the CCTV centre fifty miles away.
Of course the Spanish are awfully excitable. In Britain everyone would have just hidden behind their Metros and tutted very quietly.

In Glasgow and Canning Town somebody would eventually have twatted
him.

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