Scotrail Tap and Pay

[Tweed]

I’m not sure I’ve seen this mentioned on here:

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay

Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.

Tap & Pay is a trial of a new, convenient way to travel on ScotRail
services. By using a dedicated mobile app, you can generate a barcode
whenever you travel, which lets you access trains and stations without the
need for a traditional ticket.

Why use Tap & Pay?
Save time: Generate a barcode and scan it as you travel.
Travel flexibly: No need to buy a ticket in advance.
Best value: Always get the best fare automatically.
Railcard discounts: Your Railcard discount is applied automatically.
Secure payments: Enjoy secure and automated charging.
Track your trips: Access your full journey and payment history in your
account.

How does it work?

With Tap & Pay, you register a few details within an easy-to-use app. Then,
whenever you start a journey, nominate your origin station and you will be
given a barcode that can be scanned by our on-board staff and used to pass
through ticket gates. After you travel, simply end the journey at your
destination station. The app will calculate the best fare for your travel
and automatically deduct the value from your nominated payment card.

More details on the website. Doesn’t cover the entire Scotrail route area.
Does accept railcards except those that need more than one person to travel
together, eg Two Together.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.
Tap & Pay is a trial of a new, convenient way to travel on ScotRail
services. By using a dedicated mobile app, you can generate a barcode
whenever you travel, which lets you access trains and stations without the
need for a traditional ticket.
Why use Tap & Pay?
Save time: Generate a barcode and scan it as you travel.
Travel flexibly: No need to buy a ticket in advance.
Best value: Always get the best fare automatically.

Like the Oyster promise, this has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

For example, the best single fare that day (split if that's cheaper) or
do they wait if/until you come back and then charge a return?

Post by Tweed
Railcard discounts: Your Railcard discount is applied automatically.
Secure payments: Enjoy secure and automated charging.
Track your trips: Access your full journey and payment history in your
account.
How does it work?
With Tap & Pay, you register a few details within an easy-to-use app. Then,
whenever you start a journey, nominate your origin station and you will be
given a barcode that can be scanned by our on-board staff and used to pass
through ticket gates. After you travel, simply end the journey at your
destination station.

Basher's delight. Travel around the network all day, and then end your
journey at (or near) where you started, and get charged almost nothing.

Post by Tweed
The app will calculate the best fare for your travel
and automatically deduct the value from your nominated payment card.
More details on the website. Doesn’t cover the entire Scotrail route area.

What's missing - the bits across the border in England, or something
else?

Post by Tweed
Does accept railcards except those that need more than one person to travel
together, eg Two Together.

[Tweed]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.
Tap & Pay is a trial of a new, convenient way to travel on ScotRail
services. By using a dedicated mobile app, you can generate a barcode
whenever you travel, which lets you access trains and stations without the
need for a traditional ticket.
Why use Tap & Pay?
Save time: Generate a barcode and scan it as you travel.
Travel flexibly: No need to buy a ticket in advance.
Best value: Always get the best fare automatically.

Like the Oyster promise, this has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt.
For example, the best single fare that day (split if that's cheaper) or
do they wait if/until you come back and then charge a return?

Post by Tweed
Railcard discounts: Your Railcard discount is applied automatically.
Secure payments: Enjoy secure and automated charging.
Track your trips: Access your full journey and payment history in your
account.
How does it work?
With Tap & Pay, you register a few details within an easy-to-use app. Then,
whenever you start a journey, nominate your origin station and you will be
given a barcode that can be scanned by our on-board staff and used to pass
through ticket gates. After you travel, simply end the journey at your
destination station.

Basher's delight. Travel around the network all day, and then end your
journey at (or near) where you started, and get charged almost nothing.

Post by Tweed
The app will calculate the best fare for your travel
and automatically deduct the value from your nominated payment card.
More details on the website. Doesn’t cover the entire Scotrail route area.

What's missing - the bits across the border in England, or something
else?

Post by Tweed
Does accept railcards except those that need more than one person to travel
together, eg Two Together.

The link answers two of your questions:
There’s a note stating where you might not get the best fare, including
advances and split tickets
There’s a map showing the area of validity
Maximum journey time is 3 hours so no bashing.

[Nobody]

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:35:40 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.
Tap & Pay is a trial of a new, convenient way to travel on ScotRail
services. By using a dedicated mobile app, you can generate a barcode
whenever you travel, which lets you access trains and stations without the
need for a traditional ticket.
Why use Tap & Pay?
Save time: Generate a barcode and scan it as you travel.
Travel flexibly: No need to buy a ticket in advance.
Best value: Always get the best fare automatically.

Like the Oyster promise, this has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

<railroaded>

There’s a note stating where you might not get the best fare, including
advances and split tickets

Then surely the site shouldn't use the words *always* and
*automatically*?

[Tweed]

Post by Nobody
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:35:40 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.
Tap & Pay is a trial of a new, convenient way to travel on ScotRail
services. By using a dedicated mobile app, you can generate a barcode
whenever you travel, which lets you access trains and stations without the
need for a traditional ticket.
Why use Tap & Pay?
Save time: Generate a barcode and scan it as you travel.
Travel flexibly: No need to buy a ticket in advance.
Best value: Always get the best fare automatically.

Like the Oyster promise, this has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

<railroaded>

There’s a note stating where you might not get the best fare, including
advances and split tickets

Then surely the site shouldn't use the words *always* and
*automatically*?

Yes, never let the marketing department play fast and loose with the facts.
I don’t know the fare structure in the relevant area too well - perhaps
there isn’t much scope for split tickets. Advance tickets probably
automatically get excluded as I don’t think Scotrail sell advances at the
time of departure (ie you have to buy them in advance).

[Tweed]

Post by Tweed

Post by Nobody
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:35:40 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.
Tap & Pay is a trial of a new, convenient way to travel on ScotRail
services. By using a dedicated mobile app, you can generate a barcode
whenever you travel, which lets you access trains and stations without the
need for a traditional ticket.
Why use Tap & Pay?
Save time: Generate a barcode and scan it as you travel.
Travel flexibly: No need to buy a ticket in advance.
Best value: Always get the best fare automatically.

Like the Oyster promise, this has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

<railroaded>

There’s a note stating where you might not get the best fare, including
advances and split tickets

Then surely the site shouldn't use the words *always* and
*automatically*?

Yes, never let the marketing department play fast and loose with the facts.
I don’t know the fare structure in the relevant area too well - perhaps
there isn’t much scope for split tickets. Advance tickets probably
automatically get excluded as I don’t think Scotrail sell advances at the
time of departure (ie you have to buy them in advance).

I think the limited geographic coverage is to limit the fee for an
unfinished journey (ie failure to tap out) which is £25.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.
Tap & Pay is a trial of a new, convenient way to travel on ScotRail
services. By using a dedicated mobile app, you can generate a barcode
whenever you travel, which lets you access trains and stations without the
need for a traditional ticket.
Why use Tap & Pay?
Save time: Generate a barcode and scan it as you travel.
Travel flexibly: No need to buy a ticket in advance.
Best value: Always get the best fare automatically.

Like the Oyster promise, this has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt.
For example, the best single fare that day (split if that's cheaper) or
do they wait if/until you come back and then charge a return?

Post by Tweed
Railcard discounts: Your Railcard discount is applied automatically.
Secure payments: Enjoy secure and automated charging.
Track your trips: Access your full journey and payment history in your
account.
How does it work?
With Tap & Pay, you register a few details within an easy-to-use app. Then,
whenever you start a journey, nominate your origin station and you will be
given a barcode that can be scanned by our on-board staff and used to pass
through ticket gates. After you travel, simply end the journey at your
destination station.

Basher's delight. Travel around the network all day, and then end your
journey at (or near) where you started, and get charged almost nothing.

Post by Tweed
The app will calculate the best fare for your travel
and automatically deduct the value from your nominated payment card.
More details on the website. Doesn’t cover the entire Scotrail route area.

What's missing - the bits across the border in England, or something
else?

Post by Tweed
Does accept railcards except those that need more than one person to travel
together, eg Two Together.

I had an idea the content had been selectively quoted.

Post by Tweed
There’s a note stating where you might not get the best fare, including
advances and split tickets

"You'll always get the best fare, except when you won't".

Post by Tweed
There’s a map showing the area of validity

I'll have a look later, and post a summary.

Post by Tweed
Maximum journey time is 3 hours so no bashing.

Or even travelling much in the Highlands (or are they off limits
anyway).

What's the penalty for taking 3hrs 5mins to complete the trip, and do
they waive it if the reason is late/cancelled services?

[Roland Perry]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed
There’s a map showing the area of validity

I'll have a look later, and post a summary.

Glasgow-Edinburgh commuter belt, but nothing north or east of Waverley.

I wonder if ScotRail have a person whose job title is "Head of
over-promising and under-delivering"

[Sam Wilson]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed
There’s a map showing the area of validity

I'll have a look later, and post a summary.

Glasgow-Edinburgh commuter belt, but nothing north or east of Waverley.

Very little to the south either - the Bathgate and Shotts lines are almost
due east of Edinburgh.

Post by Roland Perry
I wonder if ScotRail have a person whose job title is "Head of
over-promising and under-delivering"

Sam

[Tweed]

Post by Sam Wilson

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed
There’s a map showing the area of validity

I'll have a look later, and post a summary.

Glasgow-Edinburgh commuter belt, but nothing north or east of Waverley.

Very little to the south either - the Bathgate and Shotts lines are almost
due east of Edinburgh.

Post by Roland Perry
I wonder if ScotRail have a person whose job title is "Head of
over-promising and under-delivering"

Sam

My guess is the boundary is such that no fare can exceed the £25 penalty
fare for forgetting to tap out. Obviously you could raise the penalty and
thus increase the coverage area. It’s a trial at the moment, so it might
gain more functionality, or just get canned.

[Coffee]

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.
Tap & Pay is a trial of a new, convenient way to travel on ScotRail
services. By using a dedicated mobile app, you can generate a barcode
whenever you travel, which lets you access trains and stations without the
need for a traditional ticket.
Why use Tap & Pay?
Save time: Generate a barcode and scan it as you travel.
Travel flexibly: No need to buy a ticket in advance.
Best value: Always get the best fare automatically.
Railcard discounts: Your Railcard discount is applied automatically.
Secure payments: Enjoy secure and automated charging.
Track your trips: Access your full journey and payment history in your
account.

I wonder how it will cope with my three cards which offer different
discounts - Senior Railcard, Valley Lines Senior Railcard, and Welsh bus
pass. The latter allows free travel on some lines and provides other
discounts.

Post by Tweed
How does it work?
With Tap & Pay, you register a few details within an easy-to-use app. Then,
whenever you start a journey, nominate your origin station and you will be
given a barcode that can be scanned by our on-board staff and used to pass
through ticket gates. After you travel, simply end the journey at your
destination station. The app will calculate the best fare for your travel
and automatically deduct the value from your nominated payment card.
More details on the website. Doesn’t cover the entire Scotrail route area.
Does accept railcards except those that need more than one person to travel
together, eg Two Together.

[Tweed]

Post by Coffee

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.
Tap & Pay is a trial of a new, convenient way to travel on ScotRail
services. By using a dedicated mobile app, you can generate a barcode
whenever you travel, which lets you access trains and stations without the
need for a traditional ticket.
Why use Tap & Pay?
Save time: Generate a barcode and scan it as you travel.
Travel flexibly: No need to buy a ticket in advance.
Best value: Always get the best fare automatically.
Railcard discounts: Your Railcard discount is applied automatically.
Secure payments: Enjoy secure and automated charging.
Track your trips: Access your full journey and payment history in your
account.

I wonder how it will cope with my three cards which offer different
discounts - Senior Railcard, Valley Lines Senior Railcard, and Welsh bus
pass. The latter allows free travel on some lines and provides other
discounts.

I doubt the last two have much validity in Scotland.

[Coffee]

Post by Tweed

Post by Coffee

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.
Tap & Pay is a trial of a new, convenient way to travel on ScotRail
services. By using a dedicated mobile app, you can generate a barcode
whenever you travel, which lets you access trains and stations without the
need for a traditional ticket.
Why use Tap & Pay?
Save time: Generate a barcode and scan it as you travel.
Travel flexibly: No need to buy a ticket in advance.
Best value: Always get the best fare automatically.
Railcard discounts: Your Railcard discount is applied automatically.
Secure payments: Enjoy secure and automated charging.
Track your trips: Access your full journey and payment history in your
account.

I wonder how it will cope with my three cards which offer different
discounts - Senior Railcard, Valley Lines Senior Railcard, and Welsh bus
pass. The latter allows free travel on some lines and provides other
discounts.

I doubt the last two have much validity in Scotland.

Presumably some ScotRail uses have have access to more than one Railcard
as well.

[M***@dastardlyhq.com]

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 17:16:14 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.

No hassle except having to download yet another sodding app and give them all
your details.

Post by Tweed
With Tap & Pay, you register a few details within an easy-to-use app. Then,
whenever you start a journey, nominate your origin station and you will be
given a barcode that can be scanned by our on-board staff and used to pass
through ticket gates. After you travel, simply end the journey at your

How convenient. Not.

Are scotrail in in an alternative universe where contactless cards and gate
card readers don't exist? What a total shitshow.

[Roland Perry]

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 17:16:14 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.

No hassle except having to download yet another sodding app and give them all
your details.

I'm with you there.

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com

Post by Tweed
With Tap & Pay, you register a few details within an easy-to-use app. Then,
whenever you start a journey, nominate your origin station and you will be
given a barcode that can be scanned by our on-board staff and used to pass
through ticket gates. After you travel, simply end the journey at your

How convenient. Not.
Are scotrail in in an alternative universe where contactless cards and gate
card readers don't exist? What a total shitshow.

I think, bicbw, that all** their stations have at least ITSO contactless
pads.

** Most anyway, I don't know about some of the Highland request stops
for example. But there were validators at Dingwall (north of
Inverness) when I took a train there.

[Tweed]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 17:16:14 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.

No hassle except having to download yet another sodding app and give them all
your details.

I'm with you there.

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com

Post by Tweed
With Tap & Pay, you register a few details within an easy-to-use app. Then,
whenever you start a journey, nominate your origin station and you will be
given a barcode that can be scanned by our on-board staff and used to pass
through ticket gates. After you travel, simply end the journey at your

How convenient. Not.
Are scotrail in in an alternative universe where contactless cards and gate
card readers don't exist? What a total shitshow.

I think, bicbw, that all** their stations have at least ITSO contactless
pads.
** Most anyway, I don't know about some of the Highland request stops
for example. But there were validators at Dingwall (north of
Inverness) when I took a train there.

I’d prefer pressing a button on my phone app than hunting down a validator.
Other than the big stations gate lines aren’t a thing. It’s a trial and you
aren’t forced to use it.

I wonder if having an active bar code during the journey might cut down on
fare evasion compared to contactless credit card. The latter works well on
a mostly gate lined system.

[Alexei Newton]

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 17:16:14 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.

No hassle except having to download yet another sodding app and give them all
your details.

I'm with you there.

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com

Post by Tweed
With Tap & Pay, you register a few details within an easy-to-use app. Then,
whenever you start a journey, nominate your origin station and you will be
given a barcode that can be scanned by our on-board staff and used to pass
through ticket gates. After you travel, simply end the journey at your

How convenient. Not.
Are scotrail in in an alternative universe where contactless cards and gate
card readers don't exist? What a total shitshow.

I think, bicbw, that all** their stations have at least ITSO contactless
pads.
** Most anyway, I don't know about some of the Highland request stops
for example. But there were validators at Dingwall (north of
Inverness) when I took a train there.

I’d prefer pressing a button on my phone app than hunting down a validator.
Other than the big stations gate lines aren’t a thing. It’s a trial and you
aren’t forced to use it.
I wonder if having an active bar code during the journey might cut down on
fare evasion compared to contactless credit card. The latter works well on
a mostly gate lined system.

Also, bank card contactless is pretty much useless for anyone with a
railcard anyway.

Although tbh this system doesn't seem much more convenient than existing
e-tickets. The only benefit really I can see is if it gets extended to
an integrated ticketing system in the future which includes buses (+
Glasgow subway + Edinburgh trams?).

[ColinR]

Post by Alexei Newton

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 17:16:14 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.

No hassle except having to download yet another sodding app and give them all
your details.

I'm with you there.

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com

Post by Tweed
With Tap & Pay, you register a few details within an easy-to-use app. Then,
whenever you start a journey, nominate your origin station and you will be
given a barcode that can be scanned by our on-board staff and used to pass
through ticket gates. After you travel, simply end the journey at your

How convenient. Not.
Are scotrail in in an alternative universe where contactless cards and gate
card readers don't exist? What a total shitshow.

I think, bicbw, that all** their stations have at least ITSO contactless
pads.
** Most anyway, I don't know about some of the Highland request stops
    for example. But there were validators at Dingwall (north of
    Inverness) when I took a train there.

I’d prefer pressing a button on my phone app than hunting down a validator.
Other than the big stations gate lines aren’t a thing. It’s a trial and you
aren’t forced to use it.
I wonder if having an active bar code during the journey might cut down on
fare evasion compared to contactless credit card. The latter works well on
a mostly gate lined system.

Also, bank card contactless is pretty much useless for anyone with a
railcard anyway.
Although tbh this system doesn't seem much more convenient than existing
e-tickets. The only benefit really I can see is if it gets extended to
an integrated ticketing system in the future which includes buses (+
Glasgow subway + Edinburgh trams?).

Many years since I used it so not sure of current technology, but the
principle of one system covering bus / train / ferry / underground
exists and has done for many years in Glasgow,
https://www.spt.co.uk/tickets/zonecard/

[Tweed]

Post by ColinR

Post by Alexei Newton

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 17:16:14 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.

No hassle except having to download yet another sodding app and give them all
your details.

I'm with you there.

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com

Post by Tweed
With Tap & Pay, you register a few details within an easy-to-use app. Then,
whenever you start a journey, nominate your origin station and you will be
given a barcode that can be scanned by our on-board staff and used to pass
through ticket gates. After you travel, simply end the journey at your

How convenient. Not.
Are scotrail in in an alternative universe where contactless cards and gate
card readers don't exist? What a total shitshow.

I think, bicbw, that all** their stations have at least ITSO contactless
pads.
** Most anyway, I don't know about some of the Highland request stops
    for example. But there were validators at Dingwall (north of
    Inverness) when I took a train there.

I’d prefer pressing a button on my phone app than hunting down a validator.
Other than the big stations gate lines aren’t a thing. It’s a trial and you
aren’t forced to use it.
I wonder if having an active bar code during the journey might cut down on
fare evasion compared to contactless credit card. The latter works well on
a mostly gate lined system.

Also, bank card contactless is pretty much useless for anyone with a
railcard anyway.
Although tbh this system doesn't seem much more convenient than existing
e-tickets. The only benefit really I can see is if it gets extended to
an integrated ticketing system in the future which includes buses (+
Glasgow subway + Edinburgh trams?).

Many years since I used it so not sure of current technology, but the
principle of one system covering bus / train / ferry / underground
exists and has done for many years in Glasgow,
https://www.spt.co.uk/tickets/zonecard/

Sort of. But the minimum you can buy is a week of travel. I’ve not yet
worked out how to travel into the centre of Glasgow on the Subway and back
by train, other than using separate tickets for each.

[ColinR]

Post by Tweed

Post by ColinR

Post by Alexei Newton

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 17:16:14 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.

No hassle except having to download yet another sodding app and give them all
your details.

I'm with you there.

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com

Post by Tweed
With Tap & Pay, you register a few details within an easy-to-use app. Then,
whenever you start a journey, nominate your origin station and you will be
given a barcode that can be scanned by our on-board staff and used to pass
through ticket gates. After you travel, simply end the journey at your

How convenient. Not.
Are scotrail in in an alternative universe where contactless cards and gate
card readers don't exist? What a total shitshow.

I think, bicbw, that all** their stations have at least ITSO contactless
pads.
** Most anyway, I don't know about some of the Highland request stops
    for example. But there were validators at Dingwall (north of
    Inverness) when I took a train there.

I’d prefer pressing a button on my phone app than hunting down a validator.
Other than the big stations gate lines aren’t a thing. It’s a trial and you
aren’t forced to use it.
I wonder if having an active bar code during the journey might cut down on
fare evasion compared to contactless credit card. The latter works well on
a mostly gate lined system.

Also, bank card contactless is pretty much useless for anyone with a
railcard anyway.
Although tbh this system doesn't seem much more convenient than existing
e-tickets. The only benefit really I can see is if it gets extended to
an integrated ticketing system in the future which includes buses (+
Glasgow subway + Edinburgh trams?).

Many years since I used it so not sure of current technology, but the
principle of one system covering bus / train / ferry / underground
exists and has done for many years in Glasgow,
https://www.spt.co.uk/tickets/zonecard/

Sort of. But the minimum you can buy is a week of travel. I’ve not yet
worked out how to travel into the centre of Glasgow on the Subway and back
by train, other than using separate tickets for each.

Yes, when I used it I was commuting so bought a weekly (or monthly?) ticket.

[Certes]

Post by Tweed

Post by ColinR

Post by Alexei Newton

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 17:16:14 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.

No hassle except having to download yet another sodding app and give them all
your details.

I'm with you there.

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com

Post by Tweed
With Tap & Pay, you register a few details within an easy-to-use app. Then,
whenever you start a journey, nominate your origin station and you will be
given a barcode that can be scanned by our on-board staff and used to pass
through ticket gates. After you travel, simply end the journey at your

How convenient. Not.
Are scotrail in in an alternative universe where contactless cards and gate
card readers don't exist? What a total shitshow.

I think, bicbw, that all** their stations have at least ITSO contactless
pads.
** Most anyway, I don't know about some of the Highland request stops
    for example. But there were validators at Dingwall (north of
    Inverness) when I took a train there.

I’d prefer pressing a button on my phone app than hunting down a validator.
Other than the big stations gate lines aren’t a thing. It’s a trial and you
aren’t forced to use it.
I wonder if having an active bar code during the journey might cut down on
fare evasion compared to contactless credit card. The latter works well on
a mostly gate lined system.

Also, bank card contactless is pretty much useless for anyone with a
railcard anyway.
Although tbh this system doesn't seem much more convenient than existing
e-tickets. The only benefit really I can see is if it gets extended to
an integrated ticketing system in the future which includes buses (+
Glasgow subway + Edinburgh trams?).

Many years since I used it so not sure of current technology, but the
principle of one system covering bus / train / ferry / underground
exists and has done for many years in Glasgow,
https://www.spt.co.uk/tickets/zonecard/

Sort of. But the minimum you can buy is a week of travel. I’ve not yet
worked out how to travel into the centre of Glasgow on the Subway and back
by train, other than using separate tickets for each.

For off-peak travel, there used to be a day ranger valid for almost all
trains, buses, subway and even a few ferries throughout Strathclyde at a
ridiculously low price (something like £13).

A day Roundabout is still available but only covers trains and subway
in a smaller area, again off-peak. It's still cheaper than a CDR from
Dumbarton to Motherwell.
<https://www.spt.co.uk/tickets/day-tickets/roundabout/>

[Alexei Newton]

Post by ColinR
Many years since I used it so not sure of current technology, but the
principle of one system covering bus / train / ferry / underground
exists and has done for many years in Glasgow,
https://www.spt.co.uk/tickets/zonecard/

My point was more Tap & Pay being part of an integrated ticketing system
would make *that system more useful than existing e-tickets* (since I
believe it isn't particularly in its current form), not that an
integrated ticketing system would be some new innovation resulting from
this system.

Although, I think could be some advantages specific to using this
specific system: it makes it easier to offer concession prices within a
pay-as-you-go system since they don't have to muck about with sending
out dedicated smartcards for this, and it also means that one person can
pay for the tickets for a group of people (I have seen people have
issues with this not being possible in London's Oyster/contactless
system, though this is more a result of the buses not selling paper
tickets anymore). They also wouldn't have to install validators
everywhere, though since they seem to have pretty much already done this
anyway for ITSO cards that's not much of a benefit at this point.

[Tweed]

Post by Alexei Newton

Post by ColinR
Many years since I used it so not sure of current technology, but the
principle of one system covering bus / train / ferry / underground
exists and has done for many years in Glasgow,
https://www.spt.co.uk/tickets/zonecard/

My point was more Tap & Pay being part of an integrated ticketing system
would make *that system more useful than existing e-tickets* (since I
believe it isn't particularly in its current form), not that an
integrated ticketing system would be some new innovation resulting from
this system.
Although, I think could be some advantages specific to using this
specific system: it makes it easier to offer concession prices within a
pay-as-you-go system since they don't have to muck about with sending
out dedicated smartcards for this, and it also means that one person can
pay for the tickets for a group of people (I have seen people have
issues with this not being possible in London's Oyster/contactless
system, though this is more a result of the buses not selling paper
tickets anymore). They also wouldn't have to install validators
everywhere, though since they seem to have pretty much already done this
anyway for ITSO cards that's not much of a benefit at this point.

I think it is more convenient than an e-ticket. For those you have to go to
a website, purchase the correct ticket and load it into your phone. It’s
certainly more convenient than using an in station ticket machine, which
often has a queue. I like the idea of opening the app, clicking start and
then just getting on the train. I’m up that way soon, so I’ll find out how
it works in practice.

[Coffee]

Post by Tweed

Post by Alexei Newton

Post by ColinR
Many years since I used it so not sure of current technology, but the
principle of one system covering bus / train / ferry / underground
exists and has done for many years in Glasgow,
https://www.spt.co.uk/tickets/zonecard/

My point was more Tap & Pay being part of an integrated ticketing system
would make *that system more useful than existing e-tickets* (since I
believe it isn't particularly in its current form), not that an
integrated ticketing system would be some new innovation resulting from
this system.
Although, I think could be some advantages specific to using this
specific system: it makes it easier to offer concession prices within a
pay-as-you-go system since they don't have to muck about with sending
out dedicated smartcards for this, and it also means that one person can
pay for the tickets for a group of people (I have seen people have
issues with this not being possible in London's Oyster/contactless
system, though this is more a result of the buses not selling paper
tickets anymore). They also wouldn't have to install validators
everywhere, though since they seem to have pretty much already done this
anyway for ITSO cards that's not much of a benefit at this point.

I think it is more convenient than an e-ticket. For those you have to go to
a website, purchase the correct ticket and load it into your phone. It’s
certainly more convenient than using an in station ticket machine, which
often has a queue. I like the idea of opening the app, clicking start and
then just getting on the train. I’m up that way soon, so I’ll find out how
it works in practice.

If I buy a PDF ticket from TfW website I can display it through the TfW
app which is even more convenient than pressing start.

[Tweed]

Post by Coffee

Post by Tweed

Post by Alexei Newton

Post by ColinR
Many years since I used it so not sure of current technology, but the
principle of one system covering bus / train / ferry / underground
exists and has done for many years in Glasgow,
https://www.spt.co.uk/tickets/zonecard/

My point was more Tap & Pay being part of an integrated ticketing system
would make *that system more useful than existing e-tickets* (since I
believe it isn't particularly in its current form), not that an
integrated ticketing system would be some new innovation resulting from
this system.
Although, I think could be some advantages specific to using this
specific system: it makes it easier to offer concession prices within a
pay-as-you-go system since they don't have to muck about with sending
out dedicated smartcards for this, and it also means that one person can
pay for the tickets for a group of people (I have seen people have
issues with this not being possible in London's Oyster/contactless
system, though this is more a result of the buses not selling paper
tickets anymore). They also wouldn't have to install validators
everywhere, though since they seem to have pretty much already done this
anyway for ITSO cards that's not much of a benefit at this point.

I think it is more convenient than an e-ticket. For those you have to go to
a website, purchase the correct ticket and load it into your phone. It’s
certainly more convenient than using an in station ticket machine, which
often has a queue. I like the idea of opening the app, clicking start and
then just getting on the train. I’m up that way soon, so I’ll find out how
it works in practice.

If I buy a PDF ticket from TfW website I can display it through the TfW
app which is even more convenient than pressing start.

But the point is you have to first buy the ticket. With the current
Byzantine fares system you have to have a certain amount of skill to select
the correct and cheapest ticket. For walk up journeys this system is
supposed to do all of that for you in the background.

[Alexei Newton]

Post by Tweed
But the point is you have to first buy the ticket. With the current
Byzantine fares system you have to have a certain amount of skill to select
the correct and cheapest ticket. For walk up journeys this system is
supposed to do all of that for you in the background.

I suppose it is somewhat easier when it comes to return tickets.

For singles I disagree that you need any skill in practice, since
ticketing apps already recommend you the correct and cheapest tickets
(or at least no more expensive than the fares that scotrail will
calculate) when you select whichever service you intend to take.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Alexei Newton

Post by Tweed
But the point is you have to first buy the ticket. With the current
Byzantine fares system you have to have a certain amount of skill to select
the correct and cheapest ticket. For walk up journeys this system is
supposed to do all of that for you in the background.

I suppose it is somewhat easier when it comes to return tickets.
For singles I disagree that you need any skill in practice, since
ticketing apps already recommend you the correct and cheapest tickets
(or at least no more expensive than the fares that scotrail will
calculate) when you select whichever service you intend to take.

But that's the problem, how do you know exactly which service you want?
You could be delayed getting to the boarding point by any number of
things, or circumstances could change indicating an earlier train would
be better.

[Scott]

Post by Alexei Newton

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 17:16:14 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Tweed
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/digital-train-tickets/tap-pay
Welcome to a Tap & Pay - a new, hassle-free way of travelling.

No hassle except having to download yet another sodding app and give them all
your details.

I'm with you there.

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com

Post by Tweed
With Tap & Pay, you register a few details within an easy-to-use app. Then,
whenever you start a journey, nominate your origin station and you will be
given a barcode that can be scanned by our on-board staff and used to pass
through ticket gates. After you travel, simply end the journey at your

How convenient. Not.
Are scotrail in in an alternative universe where contactless cards and gate
card readers don't exist? What a total shitshow.

I think, bicbw, that all** their stations have at least ITSO contactless
pads.
** Most anyway, I don't know about some of the Highland request stops
for example. But there were validators at Dingwall (north of
Inverness) when I took a train there.

I’d prefer pressing a button on my phone app than hunting down a validator.
Other than the big stations gate lines aren’t a thing. It’s a trial and you
aren’t forced to use it.
I wonder if having an active bar code during the journey might cut down on
fare evasion compared to contactless credit card. The latter works well on
a mostly gate lined system.

Also, bank card contactless is pretty much useless for anyone with a
railcard anyway.
Although tbh this system doesn't seem much more convenient than existing
e-tickets. The only benefit really I can see is if it gets extended to
an integrated ticketing system in the future which includes buses (+
Glasgow subway + Edinburgh trams?).

I see two benefits. It avoids the need to purchase the ticket from a
TVM or otherwise before starting the journey. Also, it allows the
journey to evolve during the day, eg return from a different station,
add to the journey, travel during peak instead of off-peak.