How not to re-rail a 395

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

What a shit show. They'd had 3 months to figure this out too:

[Scott]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
http://youtu.be/rkDEgyqMWFI

As a matter of genuine interest, how are you supposed to do it? Should
they have moved it one car at a time?

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 09:40:11 +0000

Post by Scott

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
http://youtu.be/rkDEgyqMWFI

As a matter of genuine interest, how are you supposed to do it? Should
they have moved it one car at a time?

As many people have suggested in the comments - disconnect most of the
cars, take them away, then use a re-railer to get it back onto the track,
not random bits of wood and metal. Or if possible a crane to lift the back
bogie back on, pull it until the front bogie is next to the track then
crane that back on too.

[JMB99]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
As many people have suggested in the comments - disconnect most of the
cars, take them away, then use a re-railer to get it back onto the track,
not random bits of wood and metal. Or if possible a crane to lift the back
bogie back on, pull it until the front bogie is next to the track then
crane that back on too.

A few years ago, we had a talk from one of the Old Time drivers (i.e.
steam). They just carried a crowbar and did it themselves, I bet it
happened far more times than the records show.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by JMB99

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
As many people have suggested in the comments - disconnect most of the
cars, take them away, then use a re-railer to get it back onto the track,
not random bits of wood and metal. Or if possible a crane to lift the back
bogie back on, pull it until the front bogie is next to the track then
crane that back on too.

A few years ago, we had a talk from one of the Old Time drivers (i.e.
steam).  They just carried a crowbar and did it themselves, I bet it
happened far more times than the records show.

I remember seeing a video of a steam engine in Zambia that derailed.
They used a crowbar to get that back on the rails. Problem was that in
doing so it threw the crowbar quite a long way in a random direction.

[Recliner]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by JMB99

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
As many people have suggested in the comments - disconnect most of the
cars, take them away, then use a re-railer to get it back onto the track,
not random bits of wood and metal. Or if possible a crane to lift the back
bogie back on, pull it until the front bogie is next to the track then
crane that back on too.

A few years ago, we had a talk from one of the Old Time drivers (i.e.
steam).  They just carried a crowbar and did it themselves, I bet it
happened far more times than the records show.

I remember seeing a video of a steam engine in Zambia that derailed.
They used a crowbar to get that back on the rails. Problem was that in
doing so it threw the crowbar quite a long way in a random direction.

Isn’t there some sort of re-railing ramp they can use? I know LU uses air
bags to lift the train, which can then be pushed sideways.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Recliner

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by JMB99

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
As many people have suggested in the comments - disconnect most of the
cars, take them away, then use a re-railer to get it back onto the track,
not random bits of wood and metal. Or if possible a crane to lift the back
bogie back on, pull it until the front bogie is next to the track then
crane that back on too.

A few years ago, we had a talk from one of the Old Time drivers (i.e.
steam).  They just carried a crowbar and did it themselves, I bet it
happened far more times than the records show.

I remember seeing a video of a steam engine in Zambia that derailed.
They used a crowbar to get that back on the rails. Problem was that in
doing so it threw the crowbar quite a long way in a random direction.

Isn’t there some sort of re-railing ramp they can use? I know LU uses air
bags to lift the train, which can then be pushed sideways.

American steam locos carried a rerailing ramp which looked rather like
the foot of a 3-toed dinosaur!

[Marland]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Recliner

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by JMB99

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
As many people have suggested in the comments - disconnect most of the
cars, take them away, then use a re-railer to get it back onto the track,
not random bits of wood and metal. Or if possible a crane to lift the back
bogie back on, pull it until the front bogie is next to the track then
crane that back on too.

A few years ago, we had a talk from one of the Old Time drivers (i.e.
steam).  They just carried a crowbar and did it themselves, I bet it
happened far more times than the records show.

I remember seeing a video of a steam engine in Zambia that derailed.
They used a crowbar to get that back on the rails. Problem was that in
doing so it threw the crowbar quite a long way in a random direction.

Isn’t there some sort of re-railing ramp they can use? I know LU uses air
bags to lift the train, which can then be pushed sideways.

American steam locos carried a rerailing ramp which looked rather like
the foot of a 3-toed dinosaur!

Probably had 4 toes before they got hold of it.

GH

[Charles Ellson]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by JMB99

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
As many people have suggested in the comments - disconnect most of the
cars, take them away, then use a re-railer to get it back onto the track,
not random bits of wood and metal. Or if possible a crane to lift the back
bogie back on, pull it until the front bogie is next to the track then
crane that back on too.

A few years ago, we had a talk from one of the Old Time drivers (i.e.
steam).  They just carried a crowbar and did it themselves, I bet it
happened far more times than the records show.

I remember seeing a video of a steam engine in Zambia that derailed.
They used a crowbar to get that back on the rails. Problem was that in
doing so it threw the crowbar quite a long way in a random direction.

Isn’t there some sort of re-railing ramp they can use? I know LU uses air
bags to lift the train, which can then be pushed sideways.

Air bags are more for dealing with when more conventional jacks cannot
be positioned properly. They are only suitable until more stable
support can take over.

[Tweed]

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by JMB99

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
As many people have suggested in the comments - disconnect most of the
cars, take them away, then use a re-railer to get it back onto the track,
not random bits of wood and metal. Or if possible a crane to lift the back
bogie back on, pull it until the front bogie is next to the track then
crane that back on too.

A few years ago, we had a talk from one of the Old Time drivers (i.e.
steam).  They just carried a crowbar and did it themselves, I bet it
happened far more times than the records show.

I remember seeing a video of a steam engine in Zambia that derailed.
They used a crowbar to get that back on the rails. Problem was that in
doing so it threw the crowbar quite a long way in a random direction.

Isn’t there some sort of re-railing ramp they can use? I know LU uses air
bags to lift the train, which can then be pushed sideways.

Air bags are more for dealing with when more conventional jacks cannot
be positioned properly. They are only suitable until more stable
support can take over.

I’m sure I’ve seen DB re-railing’s team use something like this before,
though I can’t find the exact video anymore.

[Recliner]

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by JMB99

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
As many people have suggested in the comments - disconnect most of the
cars, take them away, then use a re-railer to get it back onto the track,
not random bits of wood and metal. Or if possible a crane to lift the back
bogie back on, pull it until the front bogie is next to the track then
crane that back on too.

A few years ago, we had a talk from one of the Old Time drivers (i.e.
steam).  They just carried a crowbar and did it themselves, I bet it
happened far more times than the records show.

I remember seeing a video of a steam engine in Zambia that derailed.
They used a crowbar to get that back on the rails. Problem was that in
doing so it threw the crowbar quite a long way in a random direction.

Isn’t there some sort of re-railing ramp they can use? I know LU uses air
bags to lift the train, which can then be pushed sideways.

Air bags are more for dealing with when more conventional jacks cannot
be positioned properly. They are only suitable until more stable
support can take over.

Air bags have the advantage of working on softer ground, whereas jacks need
more solid support.

[Theo]

Post by Recliner

Post by Charles Ellson

Isn?t there some sort of re-railing ramp they can use? I know LU uses air
bags to lift the train, which can then be pushed sideways.

Air bags are more for dealing with when more conventional jacks cannot
be positioned properly. They are only suitable until more stable
support can take over.

Air bags have the advantage of working on softer ground, whereas jacks need
more solid support.

I suspect the problem here was the coach was off the end of the track, so it
wasn't just a case of re-railing it but dragging it through the ballast in
order to get it back to somewhere with rails they could then re-rail it
onto. ie it was on the equivalent of a sand drag, which did its job in
absorbing the energy but meant it was off into the ballast.

(if there are rails in the middle of all that ballast, it's possible the
sleepers are rotten and they're providing no support)

The bridge being in the way presumably meant craneing it out was awkward.
From the looks of the work site, they had to jack up the vehicle and build
track or something else beneath it:

This video has a slightly better view:

and suggests what they've done is built a sledge to ride the
bogies over the ballast.

Theo

[Marland]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by JMB99
A few years ago, we had a talk from one of the Old Time drivers (i.e.
steam).  They just carried a crowbar and did it themselves, I bet it
happened far more times than the records show.

I remember seeing a video of a steam engine in Zambia that derailed.
They used a crowbar to get that back on the rails. Problem was that in
doing so it threw the crowbar quite a long way in a random direction.

Are you sure it was a derailment? That sounds like a scene from episode
one of Robbie Coltranes series Planes ,Trains and Automobiles .
They had to raise a wheel to insert packing to ease pressure on an
overheating bearing and used a large hammer laid on the railhead which was
launched a distance by the driving wheel at first attempt.

Episode here

The flying hammer is towards the end but the whole episode is worth a
watch as my coffee mug and a tin of beans that were going to be part of my
tea played a starring Role.

GH

[JMB99]

Post by Marland
Are you sure it was a derailment? That sounds like a scene from episode
one of Robbie Coltranes series Planes ,Trains and Automobiles .
They had to raise a wheel to insert packing to ease pressure on an
overheating bearing and used a large hammer laid on the railhead which was
launched a distance by the driving wheel at first attempt.

The driver described it as a derailment and seemed quite a common
occurrence which they fixed themselves without any fuss.

[Marland]

Post by JMB99

Post by Marland
Are you sure it was a derailment? That sounds like a scene from episode
one of Robbie Coltranes series Planes ,Trains and Automobiles .
They had to raise a wheel to insert packing to ease pressure on an
overheating bearing and used a large hammer laid on the railhead which was
launched a distance by the driving wheel at first attempt.

The driver described it as a derailment and seemed quite a common
occurrence which they fixed themselves without any fuss.

I’m referring to the scene in the programme to which I gave a you tube
link.
I’ll give it again.
http://youtu.be/yxHPHVSypXY

Robbie Coltrane quite clearly states it is raise the axle to relieve the
bearing , no derailment mentioned and you can see the wheel is not off the
rail .The driver doesn’t say anything.

Feel free to provide a link to whatever you were watching or quote better.

GH

[JMB99]

Post by Marland
Are you sure it was a derailment?

I was replying to an earlier comment.

Never seen Coltrane's programme.

I only only very rarely watch YouTube.

[Marland]

Post by JMB99

Post by Marland
Are you sure it was a derailment?

I was replying to an earlier comment.
Never seen Coltrane's programme.
I only only very rarely watch YouTube.

Fair enough, it would have helped if you quoting included the previous
comment and not solely mine.

GH

[Marland]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 09:40:11 +0000

Post by Scott

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
http://youtu.be/rkDEgyqMWFI

As a matter of genuine interest, how are you supposed to do it? Should
they have moved it one car at a time?

As many people have suggested in the comments - disconnect most of the
cars, take them away, then use a re-railer to get it back onto the track,
not random bits of wood and metal. Or if possible a crane to lift the back
bogie back on, pull it until the front bogie is next to the track then
crane that back on too.

Well it easy to be an armchair expert but it does seem a bit random.

A few lengths of old bull head laid on its side would have provided a path
that would have supported and guided the wheel sets rather than dragging
them like a plough through the dirt on bits of timber that didn’t stand a
chance, and would have saved them cutting them off that post with a phone?
on it. That will now need a repair job of its own which when costed out
will be a few thousand gone to waste.

“How do we slide a length of Bullhead Fred ? “ “You lever it with a team of
blokes using crowbars”
Ehh, what’s a crowbar is it hydraulic or electric?

GH

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On 18 Feb 2025 21:33:55 GMT

Post by Marland

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
As many people have suggested in the comments - disconnect most of the
cars, take them away, then use a re-railer to get it back onto the track,
not random bits of wood and metal. Or if possible a crane to lift the back
bogie back on, pull it until the front bogie is next to the track then
crane that back on too.

Well it easy to be an armchair expert but it does seem a bit random.
A few lengths of old bull head laid on its side would have provided a path
that would have supported and guided the wheel sets rather than dragging
them like a plough through the dirt on bits of timber that didn’t stand a
chance, and would have saved them cutting them off that post with a phone?
on it. That will now need a repair job of its own which when costed out
will be a few thousand gone to waste.
“How do we slide a length of Bullhead Fred ? “ “You lever it with a team
of
blokes using crowbars”
Ehh, what’s a crowbar is it hydraulic or electric?

It all seems a bit amateur hour. Another video has appeared showing it being
hauled through a station and the graffiti vandals have been busy on the rest
of the train too so will probably require a deep clean and possibly repaint.
Money they wouldn't have to spend if they'd got their arses into gear when
the derailment first happened.

[Coffee]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On 18 Feb 2025 21:33:55 GMT

Post by Marland

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
As many people have suggested in the comments - disconnect most of the
cars, take them away, then use a re-railer to get it back onto the track,
not random bits of wood and metal. Or if possible a crane to lift the back
bogie back on, pull it until the front bogie is next to the track then
crane that back on too.

Well it easy to be an armchair expert but it does seem a bit random.
A few lengths of old bull head laid on its side would have provided a path
that would have supported and guided the wheel sets rather than dragging
them like a plough through the dirt on bits of timber that didn’t stand a
chance, and would have saved them cutting them off that post with a phone?
on it. That will now need a repair job of its own which when costed out
will be a few thousand gone to waste.
“How do we slide a length of Bullhead Fred ? “ “You lever it with a team of
blokes using crowbars”
Ehh, what’s a crowbar is it hydraulic or electric?

It all seems a bit amateur hour. Another video has appeared showing it being
hauled through a station and the graffiti vandals have been busy on the rest
of the train too so will probably require a deep clean and possibly repaint.
Money they wouldn't have to spend if they'd got their arses into gear when
the derailment first happened.

The reason for the delay was a line block was needed on the adjacent
main line. They waited until other work was needed in the locality
before undertaking the work. A previous opportunity was not used
because some necessary equipment was booked for elsewhere.

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 08:58:08 +0000

Post by Coffee

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On 18 Feb 2025 21:33:55 GMT

Post by Marland

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
As many people have suggested in the comments - disconnect most of the
cars, take them away, then use a re-railer to get it back onto the track,
not random bits of wood and metal. Or if possible a crane to lift the back
bogie back on, pull it until the front bogie is next to the track then
crane that back on too.

Well it easy to be an armchair expert but it does seem a bit random.
A few lengths of old bull head laid on its side would have provided a path
that would have supported and guided the wheel sets rather than dragging
them like a plough through the dirt on bits of timber that didn’t stand a
chance, and would have saved them cutting them off that post with a phone?
on it. That will now need a repair job of its own which when costed out
will be a few thousand gone to waste.
“How do we slide a length of Bullhead Fred ? “ “You lever it with a

team

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org

Post by Marland
of
blokes using crowbars”
Ehh, what’s a crowbar is it hydraulic or electric?

It all seems a bit amateur hour. Another video has appeared showing it being
hauled through a station and the graffiti vandals have been busy on the rest
of the train too so will probably require a deep clean and possibly repaint.
Money they wouldn't have to spend if they'd got their arses into gear when
the derailment first happened.

The reason for the delay was a line block was needed on the adjacent
main line. They waited until other work was needed in the locality
before undertaking the work. A previous opportunity was not used
because some necessary equipment was booked for elsewhere.

Nothing stopping them doing it overnight just like normal maintenance work is
so it doesn't interfere with services.

[ColinR]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 08:58:08 +0000

Post by Coffee

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On 18 Feb 2025 21:33:55 GMT

Post by Marland

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
As many people have suggested in the comments - disconnect most of the
cars, take them away, then use a re-railer to get it back onto the track,
not random bits of wood and metal. Or if possible a crane to lift the back
bogie back on, pull it until the front bogie is next to the track then
crane that back on too.

Well it easy to be an armchair expert but it does seem a bit random.
A few lengths of old bull head laid on its side would have provided a path
that would have supported and guided the wheel sets rather than dragging
them like a plough through the dirt on bits of timber that didn’t stand a
chance, and would have saved them cutting them off that post with a phone?
on it. That will now need a repair job of its own which when costed out
will be a few thousand gone to waste.
“How do we slide a length of Bullhead Fred ? “ “You lever it with a

team

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org

Post by Marland
of
blokes using crowbars”
Ehh, what’s a crowbar is it hydraulic or electric?

It all seems a bit amateur hour. Another video has appeared showing it being
hauled through a station and the graffiti vandals have been busy on the rest
of the train too so will probably require a deep clean and possibly repaint.
Money they wouldn't have to spend if they'd got their arses into gear when
the derailment first happened.

The reason for the delay was a line block was needed on the adjacent
main line. They waited until other work was needed in the locality
before undertaking the work. A previous opportunity was not used
because some necessary equipment was booked for elsewhere.

Nothing stopping them doing it overnight just like normal maintenance work is
so it doesn't interfere with services.

I do not know the line / location well but maybe that line is used
extensively at night for freight traffic?

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 11:03:15 +0000

Post by ColinR

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Nothing stopping them doing it overnight just like normal maintenance work is
so it doesn't interfere with services.

I do not know the line / location well but maybe that line is used
extensively at night for freight traffic?

Could be. But single line working could be implemented for the odd freight
train. They wouldn't need the 3rd rail so that could be switched off.

[Ulf_Kutzner]

Post by Marland
Well it easy to be an armchair expert but

Sure.

[Recliner]

Post by Scott

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
http://youtu.be/rkDEgyqMWFI

As a matter of genuine interest, how are you supposed to do it? Should
they have moved it one car at a time?

What struck me was just how many people seemed to be involved, though it
wasn’t clear what most were actually doing, other than standing watching.
In South America, it would have only taken three or four men. I was once on
the Berne steam tram (actually a small stream loco and trailer), which
derailed on points. The crew got it re-railed in no time, without any
external assistance.

Also, many of them were wearing DB Cargo hi viz, despite the loco being
from GBRf. I imagine there were also representatives from NR, SE and
Hitachi. Perhaps the ORR and BTP as well?

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 10:13:23 GMT

Post by Recliner

Post by Scott

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
http://youtu.be/rkDEgyqMWFI

As a matter of genuine interest, how are you supposed to do it? Should
they have moved it one car at a time?

What struck me was just how many people seemed to be involved, though it
wasn’t clear what most were actually doing, other than standing watching.
In South America, it would have only taken three or four men. I was once on
the Berne steam tram (actually a small stream loco and trailer), which
derailed on points. The crew got it re-railed in no time, without any
external assistance.
Also, many of them were wearing DB Cargo hi viz, despite the loco being
from GBRf. I imagine there were also representatives from NR, SE and
Hitachi. Perhaps the ORR and BTP as well?

Looks like it was everybody except someone who knew what they were doing.

[Recliner]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 10:13:23 GMT

Post by Recliner

Post by Scott

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
http://youtu.be/rkDEgyqMWFI

As a matter of genuine interest, how are you supposed to do it? Should
they have moved it one car at a time?

What struck me was just how many people seemed to be involved, though it
wasn’t clear what most were actually doing, other than standing watching.
In South America, it would have only taken three or four men. I was once on
the Berne steam tram (actually a small stream loco and trailer), which
derailed on points. The crew got it re-railed in no time, without any
external assistance.
Also, many of them were wearing DB Cargo hi viz, despite the loco being
from GBRf. I imagine there were also representatives from NR, SE and
Hitachi. Perhaps the ORR and BTP as well?

Looks like it was everybody except someone who knew what they were doing.

Yes, derailments are rare, but not unknown in the UK. Given how long they
took to getting round to re-rail this unit, they had ample time to assemble
the UK’s crack re-railing team.

[Arthur Figgis]

Post by Recliner
Also, many of them were wearing DB Cargo hi viz, despite the loco being
from GBRf.

DB Cargo has a national rescue business.

[Recliner]

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by Recliner
Also, many of them were wearing DB Cargo hi viz, despite the loco being
from GBRf.

DB Cargo has a national rescue business.

Ah, thanks, I wasn't aware of that.