Increasing St Pancras HS1 capacity

[Tweed]

We’ve speculated about increasing StP’s capacity for HS1 passengers before.
Here’s an article with a bit more detail:

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/interview-hs1-ltd-on-taking-a-phased-approach-to-enlarging-st-pancras-international-capacity-06-02-2025/

Enlarging the international departures area at London St Pancras station to
greatly expand its passenger capacity will be undertaken in a phased
approach, HS1 Ltd chief operating officer Richard Thorp has told NCE.

HS1 Ltd owns and operates the high-speed line from St Pancras down through
Kent to the Channel Tunnel and its usage is currently well below its
potential, mainly due to the constraints at the London terminus.

St Pancras’ international services can serve up to 1,800 customers per hour
in its current form, but there is an ambition for it to reach nearly 5,000
an hour. This is not only to increase services from Eurostar, which is the
only international service currently using the line, but to enable more
companies to be able to run services overseas, with numerous having
recently expressed an interest.

Article continues at link above…..

[Coffee]

Post by Tweed
We’ve speculated about increasing StP’s capacity for HS1 passengers before.
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/interview-hs1-ltd-on-taking-a-phased-approach-to-enlarging-st-pancras-international-capacity-06-02-2025/
Enlarging the international departures area at London St Pancras station to
greatly expand its passenger capacity will be undertaken in a phased
approach, HS1 Ltd chief operating officer Richard Thorp has told NCE.
HS1 Ltd owns and operates the high-speed line from St Pancras down through
Kent to the Channel Tunnel and its usage is currently well below its
potential, mainly due to the constraints at the London terminus.
St Pancras’ international services can serve up to 1,800 customers per hour
in its current form, but there is an ambition for it to reach nearly 5,000
an hour. This is not only to increase services from Eurostar, which is the
only international service currently using the line, but to enable more
companies to be able to run services overseas, with numerous having
recently expressed an interest.
Article continues at link above…..

So they want 15 "long" security lanes. It sounds like they're trying to
model it on a bloody airport. Queue here, then queue there, then queue
there... What's wrong with having short security queues?

[Tweed]

Post by Coffee

Post by Tweed
We’ve speculated about increasing StP’s capacity for HS1 passengers before.
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/interview-hs1-ltd-on-taking-a-phased-approach-to-enlarging-st-pancras-international-capacity-06-02-2025/
Enlarging the international departures area at London St Pancras station to
greatly expand its passenger capacity will be undertaken in a phased
approach, HS1 Ltd chief operating officer Richard Thorp has told NCE.
HS1 Ltd owns and operates the high-speed line from St Pancras down through
Kent to the Channel Tunnel and its usage is currently well below its
potential, mainly due to the constraints at the London terminus.
St Pancras’ international services can serve up to 1,800 customers per hour
in its current form, but there is an ambition for it to reach nearly 5,000
an hour. This is not only to increase services from Eurostar, which is the
only international service currently using the line, but to enable more
companies to be able to run services overseas, with numerous having
recently expressed an interest.
Article continues at link above…..

So they want 15 "long" security lanes. It sounds like they're trying to
model it on a bloody airport. Queue here, then queue there, then queue
there... What's wrong with having short security queues?

I’m not too sure what they mean by long lanes. However, most airport
scanner lanes have multiple positions for passengers to load up their
trays. I don’t think the StP ones are like this. And yes, they are trying
to model it on an airport, as this is what their consultants have said -
the station arrangements are more akin to an airport than a railway, so
apply the techniques used at airports to increase passenger throughput.

[Recliner]

Post by Tweed
We’ve speculated about increasing StP’s capacity for HS1 passengers before.
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/interview-hs1-ltd-on-taking-a-phased-approach-to-enlarging-st-pancras-international-capacity-06-02-2025/
Enlarging the international departures area at London St Pancras station to
greatly expand its passenger capacity will be undertaken in a phased
approach, HS1 Ltd chief operating officer Richard Thorp has told NCE.
HS1 Ltd owns and operates the high-speed line from St Pancras down through
Kent to the Channel Tunnel and its usage is currently well below its
potential, mainly due to the constraints at the London terminus.
St Pancras’ international services can serve up to 1,800 customers per hour
in its current form, but there is an ambition for it to reach nearly 5,000
an hour. This is not only to increase services from Eurostar, which is the
only international service currently using the line, but to enable more
companies to be able to run services overseas, with numerous having
recently expressed an interest.
Article continues at link above…..

I notice one sensible comment about something we’ve discussed here: “we
need people to be boarding slightly earlier. At the moment it’s about 20-25
minutes before departure; we need to bring that to 30 minutes so there’s a
gradual flow of people through the whole process and straight up onto the
trains.”

[Roger]

Post by Recliner

Post by Tweed
We’ve speculated about increasing StP’s capacity for HS1 passengers before.
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/interview-hs1-ltd-on-taking-a-phased-approach-to-enlarging-st-pancras-international-capacity-06-02-2025/
Enlarging the international departures area at London St Pancras station to
greatly expand its passenger capacity will be undertaken in a phased
approach, HS1 Ltd chief operating officer Richard Thorp has told NCE.
HS1 Ltd owns and operates the high-speed line from St Pancras down through
Kent to the Channel Tunnel and its usage is currently well below its
potential, mainly due to the constraints at the London terminus.
St Pancras’ international services can serve up to 1,800 customers per hour
in its current form, but there is an ambition for it to reach nearly 5,000
an hour. This is not only to increase services from Eurostar, which is the
only international service currently using the line, but to enable more
companies to be able to run services overseas, with numerous having
recently expressed an interest.
Article continues at link above…..

I notice one sensible comment about something we’ve discussed here: “we
need people to be boarding slightly earlier. At the moment it’s about 20-25
minutes before departure; we need to bring that to 30 minutes so there’s a
gradual flow of people through the whole process and straight up onto the
trains.”

They say that at present there is a capacity for two trains per hour, but I
don't think Eurostar have ever had a regular hourly service to Paris or
Brussels.

[Recliner]

Post by Roger

Post by Recliner

Post by Tweed
We’ve speculated about increasing StP’s capacity for HS1 passengers before.
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/interview-hs1-ltd-on-taking-a-phased-approach-to-enlarging-st-pancras-international-capacity-06-02-2025/
Enlarging the international departures area at London St Pancras station to
greatly expand its passenger capacity will be undertaken in a phased
approach, HS1 Ltd chief operating officer Richard Thorp has told NCE.
HS1 Ltd owns and operates the high-speed line from St Pancras down through
Kent to the Channel Tunnel and its usage is currently well below its
potential, mainly due to the constraints at the London terminus.
St Pancras’ international services can serve up to 1,800 customers per hour
in its current form, but there is an ambition for it to reach nearly 5,000
an hour. This is not only to increase services from Eurostar, which is the
only international service currently using the line, but to enable more
companies to be able to run services overseas, with numerous having
recently expressed an interest.
Article continues at link above…..

I notice one sensible comment about something we’ve discussed here: “we
need people to be boarding slightly earlier. At the moment it’s about 20-25
minutes before departure; we need to bring that to 30 minutes so there’s a
gradual flow of people through the whole process and straight up onto the
trains.”

They say that at present there is a capacity for two trains per hour, but I
don't think Eurostar have ever had a regular hourly service to Paris or
Brussels.

For much of the day, the Paris service is hourly, but Brussels is less
frequent (two-hourly in the off-peak). However, you do get busy periods:

1704 Midi
1731 GdN
1801 GdN
1804 Midi
1901 GdN
1934 Midi
2001 GdN

[Bob]

Post by Tweed
We’ve speculated about increasing StP’s capacity for HS1 passengers before.
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/interview-hs1-ltd-on-taking-a-phased-approach-to-enlarging-st-pancras-international-capacity-06-02-2025/
Enlarging the international departures area at London St Pancras station to
greatly expand its passenger capacity will be undertaken in a phased
approach, HS1 Ltd chief operating officer Richard Thorp has told NCE.
HS1 Ltd owns and operates the high-speed line from St Pancras down through
Kent to the Channel Tunnel and its usage is currently well below its
potential, mainly due to the constraints at the London terminus.
St Pancras’ international services can serve up to 1,800 customers per hour
in its current form, but there is an ambition for it to reach nearly 5,000
an hour. This is not only to increase services from Eurostar, which is the
only international service currently using the line, but to enable more
companies to be able to run services overseas, with numerous having
recently expressed an interest.
Article continues at link above…..

Basically it looks like they intend to significantly reduce or even
relocate the arrivals area south of the passageway, and create a larger
departures area there (they have already created a small new departures
area there). There is a suggestion of moving the arrivals up to the
plaform level rather than the undercroft to free up space.

Robin

[Theo]

Post by Bob
Basically it looks like they intend to significantly reduce or even
relocate the arrivals area south of the passageway, and create a larger
departures area there (they have already created a small new departures
area there). There is a suggestion of moving the arrivals up to the
plaform level rather than the undercroft to free up space.

What's the current utilisation of the arrivals section? Pre-Brexit it
seemed to just be a place to walk through, unless the border people wanted
to have a quiet word. Presumably nowadays it has a customs function? I
think they also used that section to post-screen Disney arrivals, which
don't happen any more (when needed, make them do the Lille shuffle)

Would there be scope to move the stop blocks back to create more space at
the head of the platforms? ie extend the north end of the platforms to
compensate? Looking at the satellite the track layout at the north end
looks to be fairly relaxed (and it's not exactly a high speed approach).
Moving the platform head back was done to King's Cross platform 8 to create
circulating space in the rebuild.

Theo

[Recliner]

Post by Theo

Post by Bob
Basically it looks like they intend to significantly reduce or even
relocate the arrivals area south of the passageway, and create a larger
departures area there (they have already created a small new departures
area there). There is a suggestion of moving the arrivals up to the
plaform level rather than the undercroft to free up space.

What's the current utilisation of the arrivals section? Pre-Brexit it
seemed to just be a place to walk through, unless the border people wanted
to have a quiet word. Presumably nowadays it has a customs function? I
think they also used that section to post-screen Disney arrivals, which
don't happen any more (when needed, make them do the Lille shuffle)

I’ve not noticed any practical difference post-Brexit. Perhaps there are
more Customs officers scanning the St Pancras arriving throngs, but I don’t
think I’ve seen anyone stopped. But there is a more obvious Customs
presence on the arrival platform in GdN and Midi, though very few people
seem to be stopped in practice. Once there was a sniffer dog at Midi that
everyone had to pass in single-file, which really slowed things down, but I
think that was actually a training exercise for the dog.

Post by Theo
Would there be scope to move the stop blocks back to create more space at
the head of the platforms? ie extend the north end of the platforms to
compensate? Looking at the satellite the track layout at the north end
looks to be fairly relaxed (and it's not exactly a high speed approach).
Moving the platform head back was done to King's Cross platform 8 to create
circulating space in the rebuild.

Perhaps they have to leave room for full 400m long trains? There are
junctions not far outside three of the platforms.

[Theo]

Post by Recliner

Post by Theo
Would there be scope to move the stop blocks back to create more space at
the head of the platforms? ie extend the north end of the platforms to
compensate? Looking at the satellite the track layout at the north end
looks to be fairly relaxed (and it's not exactly a high speed approach).
Moving the platform head back was done to King's Cross platform 8 to create
circulating space in the rebuild.

Perhaps they have to leave room for full 400m long trains? There are
junctions not far outside three of the platforms.

Indeed, but the north end of platforms 5/6/7 looks to be mostly empty space.
There's a loco (?) siding between 6 and 7 that you could extend platforms
into. Looking at the trackwork radii on the MML or Kent sides I think you
could move the junction between 5 and 6 back say 50m. That would give you a
decent amount of space at the head of platforms 5/6/7 that you could use for
arrivals. Assuming the current space at the platform head isn't sufficient,
of course.

Theo

[Recliner]

Post by Theo

Post by Recliner

Post by Theo
Would there be scope to move the stop blocks back to create more space at
the head of the platforms? ie extend the north end of the platforms to
compensate? Looking at the satellite the track layout at the north end
looks to be fairly relaxed (and it's not exactly a high speed approach).
Moving the platform head back was done to King's Cross platform 8 to create
circulating space in the rebuild.

Perhaps they have to leave room for full 400m long trains? There are
junctions not far outside three of the platforms.

Indeed, but the north end of platforms 5/6/7 looks to be mostly empty space.
There's a loco (?) siding between 6 and 7 that you could extend platforms
into. Looking at the trackwork radii on the MML or Kent sides I think you
could move the junction between 5 and 6 back say 50m. That would give you a
decent amount of space at the head of platforms 5/6/7 that you could use for
arrivals. Assuming the current space at the platform head isn't sufficient,
of course.

There’s quite a lot of space beyond the buffer stops. I think the problem
is finding the space for the extra escalators and lifts that would be
needed to get the arriving passengers down to ground level. They might even
have to sacrifice some hallowed retail space!

[Theo]

Post by Recliner

Post by Theo

Post by Recliner

Post by Theo
Would there be scope to move the stop blocks back to create more space at
the head of the platforms? ie extend the north end of the platforms to
compensate? Looking at the satellite the track layout at the north end
looks to be fairly relaxed (and it's not exactly a high speed approach).
Moving the platform head back was done to King's Cross platform 8 to create
circulating space in the rebuild.

Perhaps they have to leave room for full 400m long trains? There are
junctions not far outside three of the platforms.

Indeed, but the north end of platforms 5/6/7 looks to be mostly empty space.
There's a loco (?) siding between 6 and 7 that you could extend platforms
into. Looking at the trackwork radii on the MML or Kent sides I think you
could move the junction between 5 and 6 back say 50m. That would give you a
decent amount of space at the head of platforms 5/6/7 that you could use for
arrivals. Assuming the current space at the platform head isn't sufficient,
of course.

There’s quite a lot of space beyond the buffer stops. I think the problem
is finding the space for the extra escalators and lifts that would be
needed to get the arriving passengers down to ground level. They might even
have to sacrifice some hallowed retail space!

I was thinking they could use existing access for that, but you're right
that it's a bit limited at that end of the station. Might need some more in
the vicinity of Carluccios.

Theo

[Recliner]

Post by Theo

Post by Recliner

Post by Theo

Post by Recliner

Post by Theo
Would there be scope to move the stop blocks back to create more space at
the head of the platforms? ie extend the north end of the platforms to
compensate? Looking at the satellite the track layout at the north end
looks to be fairly relaxed (and it's not exactly a high speed approach).
Moving the platform head back was done to King's Cross platform 8 to create
circulating space in the rebuild.

Perhaps they have to leave room for full 400m long trains? There are
junctions not far outside three of the platforms.

Indeed, but the north end of platforms 5/6/7 looks to be mostly empty space.
There's a loco (?) siding between 6 and 7 that you could extend platforms
into. Looking at the trackwork radii on the MML or Kent sides I think you
could move the junction between 5 and 6 back say 50m. That would give you a
decent amount of space at the head of platforms 5/6/7 that you could use for
arrivals. Assuming the current space at the platform head isn't sufficient,
of course.

There’s quite a lot of space beyond the buffer stops. I think the problem
is finding the space for the extra escalators and lifts that would be
needed to get the arriving passengers down to ground level. They might even
have to sacrifice some hallowed retail space!

I was thinking they could use existing access for that, but you're right
that it's a bit limited at that end of the station. Might need some more in
the vicinity of Carluccios.

There's a strong argument for a belt (for those with luggage, as currently provided from the platforms) as well as more
escalators and more lifts. Those belts have a long horizontal footprint. I don't know if it would be feasible to have
large lifts going straight down to the Tube booking hall? That's where a lot of arriving passengers are heading.

Of course, the beloved lovers' statue would have to go, or at least be moved.