Return of the restaurant car on flagship London-Glasgow trains

[Richard]

Return of the restaurant car on flagship London-Glasgow Trains. Virgin West
Coast has confirmed that it is to restore a full catering service to its
flagship London to Glasgow trains from 27 September.

Return of the restaurant car on flagship

London-Glasgow trains

Virgin West Coast has confirmed that it is to restore a full catering
service to its flagship London to Glasgow trains from 27 September.

The 1015 London Euston to Glasgow and the 0949 Glasgow to London Euston
services will also carry the 'Royal Scot' name. Calling at Carlisle and
Preston only, they will complete the 402-mile journey in just four hours and
40 minutes - the fastest trains on the route.

The 1715 London-Glasgow and the 1246 Glasgow-London trains will be named
'The Caledonian' and will also convey a full restaurant service.

The restaurant service will be available to passengers travelling first and
standard class and feature 'The Royal Scot' and 'The Caledonian' branded
special menus. The train names will also appear in timetables and other
publicity material.

Virgin Trains Chief Executive Chris Green said: "These are our flagship
services on the London-Glasgow route. The historic 'Royal Scot' and
'Caledonian' names have long been associated with the route, and we are
proud that they will soon be synonymous with our ultra-modern
state-of-the-art Pendolino trains."

Restaurant car menus are being developed and finalised, but they will
include an appetising range of meals to suit all tastes. If the restaurant
service is successful, it will be extended to other Virgin trains on the
London-Scotland route.

__________________________________________________________________ Phil
ICQ#: 37926016 Current ICQ status: + More ways to contact me
__________________________________________________________________

[Marcus Dawson]

Post by Richard
Return of the restaurant car on flagship London-Glasgow Trains. Virgin West
Coast has confirmed that it is to restore a full catering service to its
flagship London to Glasgow trains from 27 September.
Return of the restaurant car on flagship
London-Glasgow trains
Virgin West Coast has confirmed that it is to restore a full catering
service to its flagship London to Glasgow trains from 27 September.
The 1015 London Euston to Glasgow and the 0949 Glasgow to London Euston
services will also carry the 'Royal Scot' name. Calling at Carlisle and
Preston only, they will complete the 402-mile journey in just four hours and
40 minutes - the fastest trains on the route.

<snip virgin blurb>

SO........ how we going to get the Royal Scot headboard on the front of
a Pendolino??? ;o)

Marcus

[Tim Fenton]

Post by Marcus Dawson
SO........ how we going to get the Royal Scot headboard on the front of
a Pendolino??? ;o)

The same way that the Aberdonian, Highland Chieftain, Master Cutler,
Cornish Riviera and Golden Hind headboards (and others) were applied to
IC125s, probably.

--
Tim

[Phil]

Post by Tim Fenton

Post by Marcus Dawson
SO........ how we going to get the Royal Scot headboard on the front

of

Post by Marcus Dawson
a Pendolino??? ;o)

The same way that the Aberdonian, Highland Chieftain, Master Cutler,
Cornish Riviera and Golden Hind headboards (and others) were applied to
IC125s, probably.
--
Tim

It will be good to get proper catering back on the WCML

[David Jackson]

Post by Marcus Dawson
how we going to get the Royal Scot headboard on the front of
a Pendolino???

Hang it on the top lamp bracket, of course, it's traditional. If it was
good enough for a Duchess, it's certainly good enough for a set of
coaches.

[Marcus Dawson]

Post by David Jackson

Post by Marcus Dawson
how we going to get the Royal Scot headboard on the front of
a Pendolino???

Hang it on the top lamp bracket, of course, it's traditional. If it was
good enough for a Duchess, it's certainly good enough for a set of
coaches.

but where's the lamp bracket??????? ;o)

Marcus

[Roger T.]

Post by Marcus Dawson

Post by David Jackson

Post by Marcus Dawson
how we going to get the Royal Scot headboard on the front of
a Pendolino???

Hang it on the top lamp bracket, of course, it's traditional. If it was
good enough for a Duchess, it's certainly good enough for a set of
coaches.

but where's the lamp bracket??????? ;o)

Duct tape laddie, duck tape.


--
Cheers
Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway
http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/

[Marcus Dawson]

Post by Roger T.

Post by Marcus Dawson

Post by David Jackson

Post by Marcus Dawson
how we going to get the Royal Scot headboard on the front of
a Pendolino???

Hang it on the top lamp bracket, of course, it's traditional. If it was
good enough for a Duchess, it's certainly good enough for a set of
coaches.

but where's the lamp bracket??????? ;o)

Duct tape laddie, duck tape.

ROTFL!!!

I was initially thinking of a nice cast iron 'classic' headboard....
think of the fun sticking this -
http://www.rail-net.co.uk/photo-archive/royal_scot/royal_scot.htm (sniff
- nostalgia the first page on rail-net!)
to the front of a bendy-leano.

Marcus
Personal site - www.rail-net.co.uk
part of the - ww.trainspots.co.uk network
198 Locations and rising

[Alfred Packer]

Post by Marcus Dawson

Post by Roger T.

Post by Marcus Dawson

Post by David Jackson

Post by Marcus Dawson
how we going to get the Royal Scot headboard on the front of
a Pendolino???

Hang it on the top lamp bracket, of course, it's traditional. If it was
good enough for a Duchess, it's certainly good enough for a set of
coaches.

but where's the lamp bracket??????? ;o)

Duct tape laddie, duck tape.

ROTFL!!!
I was initially thinking of a nice cast iron 'classic' headboard....
think of the fun sticking this -
http://www.rail-net.co.uk/photo-archive/royal_scot/royal_scot.htm (sniff
- nostalgia the first page on rail-net!)
to the front of a bendy-leano.

well since its a Branson production I would have thought a video screen with
highland dancers and bagpipe music (CD available in the shop) surrounded by
a flashing neon sign would be the least they could do.

bf

[David Jackson]

Post by Marcus Dawson

Post by David Jackson

Post by Marcus Dawson
how we going to get the Royal Scot headboard on the front of
a Pendolino???

Hang it on the top lamp bracket, of course, it's traditional. If it was
good enough for a Duchess, it's certainly good enough for a set of
coaches.

but where's the lamp bracket??????? ;o)

Above that big bay window in the front, where the smokebox door should be?

[John Lancaster]

Post by Marcus Dawson

Post by David Jackson

Post by Marcus Dawson
how we going to get the Royal Scot headboard on the front of
a Pendolino???

Hang it on the top lamp bracket, of course, it's traditional. If it was
good enough for a Duchess, it's certainly good enough for a set of
coaches.

but where's the lamp bracket??????? ;o)

For what it's worth, the lamp bracket is stowed in an equipment cupboard
within each cab. It fixes into a small socket positioned to the left (as you
look at the front end) of the driver's side light cluster. So now you
know!!! ;op

John.

[David Jackson]

Post by John Lancaster

Post by Marcus Dawson
but where's the lamp bracket??????? ;o)

For what it's worth, the lamp bracket is stowed in an equipment cupboard
within each cab. It fixes into a small socket positioned to the left (as you
look at the front end) of the driver's side light cluster. So now you
know!!! ;op

Now I've got to look at every Pantyliner going through AB to see if its
lamp-bracket is carrying the required oil lamp? That'll _really_ add
interest to an afternoon's watching.... ;-)

[Marcus Dawson]

Post by David Jackson

Post by John Lancaster

Post by Marcus Dawson
but where's the lamp bracket??????? ;o)

For what it's worth, the lamp bracket is stowed in an equipment cupboard
within each cab. It fixes into a small socket positioned to the left (as you
look at the front end) of the driver's side light cluster. So now you
know!!! ;op

Now I've got to look at every Pantyliner going through AB to see if its
lamp-bracket is carrying the required oil lamp? That'll _really_ add
interest to an afternoon's watching.... ;-)

At least now I know where to stick it (lights blue touch paper...!)

We'll just have to procure (sp?) some spares and start adding head
boards - [390-gen] on tour perhaps :o)

Marcus

[Mike CJ]

Post by David Jackson

Post by Marcus Dawson
how we going to get the Royal Scot headboard on the front of
a Pendolino???

Hang it on the top lamp bracket, of course, it's traditional. If it was
good enough for a Duchess, it's certainly good enough for a set of
coaches.
--
Dave,
Frodsham

Modern trains don't have lampirons.
Mike



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[David Jackson]

Post by Mike CJ
Modern trains don't have lampirons.

Stop trying to wind me up. How can they show the train class without
lampirons? There'd be nowhere to put the oil-lamps!

[Tim Fenton]

Post by David Jackson

Post by Mike CJ
Modern trains don't have lampirons.

Stop trying to wind me up.

No. Shan't <g>

I dunno, all these Coleman Pacific fans <g,d&r>

--
Tim

[David Jackson]

Post by Tim Fenton

Post by David Jackson

Post by Mike CJ
Modern trains don't have lampirons.

Stop trying to wind me up.

No. Shan't <g>
I dunno, all these Coleman Pacific fans <g,d&r>

It would solve a couple of problems: where to hang the headboard, and
what to do when the knitting drops a stitch! Hang a couple of those
Pantyliners behind 6233 or 6201 and all your worries are over. Mind you
Frank will need a week or two to get his muscles back into condition...

BTW you can't wind me up by dropping Crewe's Chief Draughtsman's name!

[Tim Fenton]

Post by David Jackson

Post by Tim Fenton

Post by David Jackson
Stop trying to wind me up.

No. Shan't <g>
I dunno, all these Coleman Pacific fans <g,d&r>

It would solve a couple of problems: where to hang the headboard, and
what to do when the knitting drops a stitch!

Ah, but this is the WCML, not the ECML, fortunately.

Post by David Jackson
BTW you can't wind me up by dropping Crewe's Chief Draughtsman's name!

ITYM the bloke who really designed the Duchesses. Probably as important
to Stanier as both Spencer and Bulleid were to Gresley (Discuss, 25
marks <g>).

--
Tim

[Barry Salter]

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:56:42 +0000 (UTC), Marcus Dawson

Post by Marcus Dawson
SO........ how we going to get the Royal Scot headboard on the front of
a Pendolino??? ;o)

Vinyl ;) Or put it on the side instead...

Cya,

Barry

[Richard]

Post by Marcus Dawson

Post by Richard
Return of the restaurant car on flagship London-Glasgow Trains. Virgin West
Coast has confirmed that it is to restore a full catering service to its
flagship London to Glasgow trains from 27 September.
Return of the restaurant car on flagship
London-Glasgow trains
Virgin West Coast has confirmed that it is to restore a full catering
service to its flagship London to Glasgow trains from 27 September.
The 1015 London Euston to Glasgow and the 0949 Glasgow to London Euston
services will also carry the 'Royal Scot' name. Calling at Carlisle and
Preston only, they will complete the 402-mile journey in just four hours and
40 minutes - the fastest trains on the route.

<snip virgin blurb>
SO........ how we going to get the Royal Scot headboard on the front of
a Pendolino??? ;o)

Will this occupy one of the 4 first class carriages? Are Virgin losing
faith in their ability to fill all four with first-class passengers maybe?

Richard

[Rich Mackin]

Post by Marcus Dawson

Post by Richard
Return of the restaurant car on flagship London-Glasgow Trains. Virgin West
Coast has confirmed that it is to restore a full catering service to its
flagship London to Glasgow trains from 27 September.
Return of the restaurant car on flagship
London-Glasgow trains
Virgin West Coast has confirmed that it is to restore a full catering
service to its flagship London to Glasgow trains from 27 September.
The 1015 London Euston to Glasgow and the 0949 Glasgow to London Euston
services will also carry the 'Royal Scot' name. Calling at Carlisle and
Preston only, they will complete the 402-mile journey in just four hours and
40 minutes - the fastest trains on the route.

<snip virgin blurb>
SO........ how we going to get the Royal Scot headboard on the front of
a Pendolino??? ;o)

Fit a Dellner coupler onto the back of the headboard :oD

--
*** http://www.railwayscene.co.uk/ ***
Updating regularly throughout 2004
Rich Mackin (rich-at-richmackin-co-uk)

[Chippy]

Post by Richard
The 1015 London Euston to Glasgow and the 0949 Glasgow to London Euston
services will also carry the 'Royal Scot' name. Calling at Carlisle and
Preston only, they will complete the 402-mile journey in just four hours and
40 minutes - the fastest trains on the route.

Takes me back to 1974, and the 'Electric Scots'.

Then, the 'Royal Scot' took five hours Euston - Glasgow (with a six or
seven minute stop at Preston).

Of course, that was on a 100mph railway, so a twenty-minute
improvement in 30 years isn't really very impressive, particularly
when one considers the time, expense and effort that has been needed
to achieve it.

[Peter Masson]

Post by Chippy
Takes me back to 1974, and the 'Electric Scots'.
Then, the 'Royal Scot' took five hours Euston - Glasgow (with a six or
seven minute stop at Preston).
Of course, that was on a 100mph railway, so a twenty-minute
improvement in 30 years isn't really very impressive, particularly
when one considers the time, expense and effort that has been needed
to achieve it.

4hr43min in 1990, at 110 mph, with 2 stops.
BTW, in 1974 the stop at Preston was only 1 minute in the public timetable,
and 3 at most in the WTT.
Peter

[TBirdFrank]

Well at long last the marketeers must have brow beaten the bean
counters

Good on yer lads - it will probably be October before I get a chance
to give it a try, but when I do I truly hope that I will be able to
report that you are giving GNER a run for their money.

You gave them the baton - it will be some feat to get it back

[Charles Middleton]

Post by Richard
The restaurant service will be available to passengers travelling first and
standard class and feature 'The Royal Scot' and 'The Caledonian' branded
special menus. The train names will also appear in timetables and other
publicity material.

I wonder how this will be included in the sets? I presume it will make use
of the 1st class kitchen for cooking and the restaurant car will be placed
between 1st and standard. I also assume that the 390's will remain at nine
car sets and that the addition of the restaurant car wont make them up to 10
cars. Did that make sense?

Therefore will the restaurant car be the newly added 9th car of a Pendolino
set, so on a negative note will technically reduce the overall capacity of
the set back down to 8 cars (9th being the restaurant).

Last point, if they are only planning to place this restaurant car into a
number of sets for use on the London to Glasgow routes what if one of these
sets has to be taken out of service? May deprive some passengers of the
restaurant car service which may have been a selling point of the service.

CM.

[Roger T.]

"Charles Middleton"

Post by Charles Middleton
Last point, if they are only planning to place this restaurant car into a
number of sets for use on the London to Glasgow routes what if one of these
sets has to be taken out of service? May deprive some passengers of the
restaurant car service which may have been a selling point of the service.

Like they care?


--
Cheers
Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway
http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/

[Peter Masson]

Post by Charles Middleton
I wonder how this will be included in the sets? I presume it will make use
of the 1st class kitchen for cooking and the restaurant car will be placed
between 1st and standard. I also assume that the 390's will remain at nine
car sets and that the addition of the restaurant car wont make them up to 10
cars. Did that make sense?

They'll use the kitchen in the First Class Driver car - so standard class
passengers may have to walk the length of the train to get to the restaurant
car.
Peter

[David E. Belcher]

Post by Peter Masson
They'll use the kitchen in the First Class Driver car - so standard class
passengers may have to walk the length of the train to get to the restaurant
car.

Unless VT are extremely civilised and also offer at-seat service in
Standard Class, which GNER still do (for breakfasts, at least).

David E. Belcher

[Tony Miles]

Post by Charles Middleton

Post by Richard
The restaurant service will be available to passengers travelling first and
standard class and feature 'The Royal Scot' and 'The Caledonian' branded
special menus. The train names will also appear in timetables and other
publicity material.

I wonder how this will be included in the sets? I presume it will make use
of the 1st class kitchen for cooking and the restaurant car will be placed
between 1st and standard. I also assume that the 390's will remain at nine
car sets and that the addition of the restaurant car wont make them up to 10
cars. Did that make sense?
Therefore will the restaurant car be the newly added 9th car of a Pendolino
set, so on a negative note will technically reduce the overall capacity of
the set back down to 8 cars (9th being the restaurant).
Last point, if they are only planning to place this restaurant car into a
number of sets for use on the London to Glasgow routes what if one of these
sets has to be taken out of service? May deprive some passengers of the
restaurant car service which may have been a selling point of the service.
CM.

[Tony Miles]

Post by Charles Middleton

Post by Richard
The restaurant service will be available to passengers travelling first and
standard class and feature 'The Royal Scot' and 'The Caledonian' branded
special menus. The train names will also appear in timetables and other
publicity material.

I wonder how this will be included in the sets? I presume it will make use
of the 1st class kitchen for cooking and the restaurant car will be placed
between 1st and standard. I also assume that the 390's will remain at nine
car sets and that the addition of the restaurant car wont make them up to 10
cars. Did that make sense?
Therefore will the restaurant car be the newly added 9th car of a Pendolino
set, so on a negative note will technically reduce the overall capacity of
the set back down to 8 cars (9th being the restaurant).
Last point, if they are only planning to place this restaurant car into a
number of sets for use on the London to Glasgow routes what if one of these
sets has to be taken out of service? May deprive some passengers of the
restaurant car service which may have been a selling point of the service.

I doubt the above - the restaurant car will have to be one of the current
1st Class vehicles - presumably the one next to Standard - the 9th cars are
all Standard Class and they won't be creating a special sub-class for the
Scottish services will they? It will possibly reduce ordinary 1st Class
capacity somewhat - but I doubt if it is jammed full on these services
anyway.

The fleet has to be all exactly the same - there is no capacity for trying
to keep sets on specific diagrams.

Tony

[Terry Harper]

Post by Tony Miles
I doubt the above - the restaurant car will have to be one of the current
1st Class vehicles - presumably the one next to Standard - the 9th cars are
all Standard Class and they won't be creating a special sub-class for the
Scottish services will they? It will possibly reduce ordinary 1st Class
capacity somewhat - but I doubt if it is jammed full on these services
anyway.
The fleet has to be all exactly the same - there is no capacity for trying
to keep sets on specific diagrams.

Will the seats be all-facing with tables in between? Or is this going to be
an airline-type meal wrapped in plastic on a tray? I can't see them
performing silver service in airline seat configuration with drop-down
tables.

[David E. Belcher]

Post by Richard
The 1715 London-Glasgow and the 1246 Glasgow-London trains will be named
'The Caledonian' and will also convey a full restaurant service.
The restaurant service will be available to passengers travelling first and
standard class and feature 'The Royal Scot' and 'The Caledonian' branded
special menus. The train names will also appear in timetables and other
publicity material.

Glad to see that the names and the proper catering service have been
retained - there was fairly cast-iron talk of Virgin abandoning both
of these completely once their WCML service was entirely based on
390s.

David E. Belcher

[Richard]

Post by David E. Belcher
Glad to see that the names and the proper catering service have been
retained - there was fairly cast-iron talk of Virgin abandoning both
of these completely once their WCML service was entirely based on
390s.

Do they exist currently? I haven't seen a restaurant car, or headboard
during my lifetime, on the WCML.

[David Jackson]

Post by Richard
I haven't seen a restaurant car, or headboard
during my lifetime, on the WCML.

You haven't lived. 46202 lifting "The Red Rose" (nothing to do with
politics) out of Lime Street, a Duchess screaming through Acton Bridge
on the "Caledonian", waiting at Weaver Junction and hoping that today
one of the "Royal Scot"s would be early and they'd pass each other right
in front of me. Small wonder that there's little to interest me in the
modern railway scene.

Seriously, I hope a headboard is fitted somehow on the Pendolino which
is running the "Royal Scot" service, it will make the ordinary a bit
more special, just for once.

[David E. Belcher]

Post by Richard
Do they exist currently? I haven't seen a restaurant car, or headboard
during my lifetime, on the WCML.

In recent years, at-seat meals on the WCML have been confined to
breakfasts on morning expresses, especially after the Manchester,
Liverpool and Birmingham (the last-mentioned only running as a morning
up train) Pullmans were axed.
Most named trains (such as those on GNER) carry the name on the paper
desitnation labels found on carriage windows, headboards being few and
far between as long ago as the end of the 1970s. VT did briefly bring
back a 1950s-style 'Royal Scot' headboard, which I believe used strong
magnets to attach itself to cab fronts in the absence of lamp
brackets, but this was short-lived.

David E. Belcher

[TBirdFrank]

Post by Richard

Post by David E. Belcher
Glad to see that the names and the proper catering service have been
retained - there was fairly cast-iron talk of Virgin abandoning both
of these completely once their WCML service was entirely based on
390s.

Do they exist currently? I haven't seen a restaurant car, or headboard
during my lifetime, on the WCML.

The names have been reinstated - not retained

The wise marketing people at Virgin decided a couple of years ago that
names were archaic and consigned them to the dustbin of history

Now that decision has followed them and these few names are back.

Lets hope more follow and that a positive move to improve the whole
travelling experience is instituted - with the abolition of Voyagers
being the long stop aspiration

[Martin WY]

Post by TBirdFrank

Post by Richard

Post by David E. Belcher
Glad to see that the names and the proper catering service have been
retained - there was fairly cast-iron talk of Virgin abandoning both
of these completely once their WCML service was entirely based on
390s.

Do they exist currently? I haven't seen a restaurant car, or headboard
during my lifetime, on the WCML.

The names have been reinstated - not retained
The wise marketing people at Virgin decided a couple of years ago that
names were archaic and consigned them to the dustbin of history
Now that decision has followed them and these few names are back.
Lets hope more follow and that a positive move to improve the whole
travelling experience is instituted - with the abolition of Voyagers
being the long stop aspiration

No No No, dont get rid of them... they will do nicely on the
Leeds-Manchester. Liverpool-Manchester corridors and Sheffield and
Doncaster-Leeds and Coast stations. Anything local, up to 60/75mins
run time and relieve the 142s and chuck them into the Atlantic.

[David E. Belcher]

Post by TBirdFrank
The wise marketing people at Virgin decided a couple of years ago that
names were archaic and consigned them to the dustbin of history
Now that decision has followed them and these few names are back.

As I said in a similar thread some time back, the marketing value of
such long-established names is quite considerable. The main example I
cited was GNER, with its "The Route of the Flying Scotsman" branding -
clearly, despite their modern diesel and electric fleet, such an
historic train isn't too archaic for their needs.

David E. Belcher

[Tim Fenton]

Post by TBirdFrank
The wise marketing people at Virgin decided a couple of years ago that
names were archaic and consigned them to the dustbin of history

FGW appear to have done likewise, but you don't seem to be bothered
about them.

Post by TBirdFrank
Now that decision has followed them and these few names are back.
Lets hope more follow

Why? How is one service going from Manchester to London made any
different to any other, just by naming it, given that the train sets
will be more or less identical?

--
Tim

[John Ray]

Post by Tim Fenton

Post by TBirdFrank
The wise marketing people at Virgin decided a couple of years ago that
names were archaic and consigned them to the dustbin of history

FGW appear to have done likewise,

(snip)

There are some named trains in the FGW timetable book. For example, the
0703 M-F Hereford-Paddington is described as "The Cathedrals Express"
and the 0835 M-F Paddington-Plymouth is "The Mayflower". Whether there
is anything on the trains themselves to distinguish them, I cannot say.

[Sean Maguire]

Post by Richard
Return of the restaurant car on flagship London-Glasgow Trains. Virgin West
Coast has confirmed that it is to restore a full catering service to its
flagship London to Glasgow trains from 27 September.
Return of the restaurant car on flagship
London-Glasgow trains
Virgin West Coast has confirmed that it is to restore a full catering
service to its flagship London to Glasgow trains from 27 September.
The 1015 London Euston to Glasgow and the 0949 Glasgow to London Euston
services will also carry the 'Royal Scot' name. Calling at Carlisle and
Preston only, they will complete the 402-mile journey in just four hours and
40 minutes - the fastest trains on the route.

Will there be an hourly service from Euston to Glasgow and Glasgow to Euston
during the day, as opposed to two-hourly currently? I know there will be
two daily service from Euston to Edinburgh (as mentioned in the WCML
strategy booklet) - any more info on this? It would be good to see a choice
of operators between London and Edinburgh, for once.

But really - how many First customers would take advantage of the restaurant
car? Virgin offer an inclusive menu to their First customers albeit a light
snack. When I travelled on a Virgin train from Glasgow to Euston a few
years ago, it had a restaurant car although very few people took advantage
of it in First.


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