Last Ian Allan Shop Closing Down

[[e-mail]]

I read elsewhere that the Ian Allan shop near Waterloo is to close permanently. Although Covid is being credited/blamed for its demise, a fair few folk were of the opinion that it was not being managed effectively pre-Covid and would have gone eventually. It also had a bit of unlooked for expense/reputational damage earlier in the year - see https://www.wandsworthguardian.co.uk/news/18184395.ian-allan-book-model-shop-fined-thousands-selling-knife-teen/

[G***@live.co.uk]

Post by ***@sky.com
I read elsewhere that the Ian Allan shop near Waterloo is to close permanently. Although Covid is being credited/blamed for its demise, a fair few folk were of the opinion that it was not being managed effectively pre-Covid and would have gone eventually. It also had a bit of unlooked for expense/reputational damage earlier in the year - see https://www.wandsworthguardian.co.uk/news/18184395.ian-allan-book-model-shop-fined-thousands-selling-knife-teen/

Interestingly enough, their website says nothing about it. I am in the area tomorrow so will try to find out more.

[[e-mail]]

Post by G***@live.co.uk

I read elsewhere that the Ian Allan shop near Waterloo is to close permanently. Although Covid is being credited/blamed for its demise, a fair few folk were of the opinion that it was not being managed effectively pre-Covid and would have gone eventually. It also had a bit of unlooked for expense/reputational damage earlier in the year - see https://www.wandsworthguardian.co.uk/news/18184395.ian-allan-book-model-shop-fined-thousands-selling-knife-teen/

Interestingly enough, their website says nothing about it. I am in the area tomorrow so will try to find out more.

This is where the news caught my eye: https://www.facebook.com/groups/divman/permalink/1645053008998124

[Trolleybus]

Post by ***@sky.com
I read elsewhere that the Ian Allan shop near Waterloo is to close permanently. Although Covid is being credited/blamed for its demise, a fair few folk were of the opinion that it was not being managed effectively pre-Covid and would have gone eventually. It also had a bit of unlooked for expense/reputational damage earlier in the year - see https://www.wandsworthguardian.co.uk/news/18184395.ian-allan-book-model-shop-fined-thousands-selling-knife-teen/

I've only used it a couple of times, but on both occasions the welcome
was far from warm.

[G***@live.co.uk]

Post by Trolleybus

Post by ***@sky.com
I read elsewhere that the Ian Allan shop near Waterloo is to close permanently. Although Covid is being credited/blamed for its demise, a fair few folk were of the opinion that it was not being managed effectively pre-Covid and would have gone eventually. It also had a bit of unlooked for expense/reputational damage earlier in the year - see https://www.wandsworthguardian.co.uk/news/18184395.ian-allan-book-model-shop-fined-thousands-selling-knife-teen/

I've only used it a couple of times, but on both occasions the welcome
was far from warm.

I went there today and the staff confirmed that it would be gone "before Christmas". Their opinion was that the owning company was not interested in the business. I also wonder if it was making money, even before the fizzy pop virus, because whenever I went there, there would be a few people in it but not spending all that much money. I suspect the trade has been lost to online retailers. My local independent bookshop has also significantly reduced its railway and transport stock in recent years and I suspect it's for the same reason.

I generally found the staff there to be friendly and helpful, as it happens but nothing ever seemed to be done to encourage custom; no "BOGOF" offers or similar, for example.

There are now very few specialist railway/transport bookshops anywhere; Motor Books in London went a few years ago and the only one I can think of in London is the London Transport Museum but their opening hours are very restricted. You are left with preserved lines and places like STEAM and the NRM.

[Bevan Price]

Post by G***@live.co.uk

Post by Trolleybus

Post by ***@sky.com
I read elsewhere that the Ian Allan shop near Waterloo is to close permanently. Although Covid is being credited/blamed for its demise, a fair few folk were of the opinion that it was not being managed effectively pre-Covid and would have gone eventually. It also had a bit of unlooked for expense/reputational damage earlier in the year - see https://www.wandsworthguardian.co.uk/news/18184395.ian-allan-book-model-shop-fined-thousands-selling-knife-teen/

I've only used it a couple of times, but on both occasions the welcome
was far from warm.

I went there today and the staff confirmed that it would be gone "before Christmas". Their opinion was that the owning company was not interested in the business.

That was also the opinion when the Birmingham shop was being closed -
the staff though the owners had little or no interest in retail shops.

Living a long way from London, I only visited the Waterloo shop a couple
of times, but in each case, I got the impression that it had a narrower
stock range than either of their sadly departed shops in Manchester &
Birmingham.

I also wonder if it was making money, even before the fizzy pop virus,
because whenever I went there, there would be a few people in it but not
spending all that much money. I suspect the trade has been lost to
online retailers. My local independent bookshop has also significantly
reduced its railway and transport stock in recent years and I suspect
it's for the same reason.

Post by G***@live.co.uk
I generally found the staff there to be friendly and helpful, as it happens but nothing ever seemed to be done to encourage custom; no "BOGOF" offers or similar, for example.
There are now very few specialist railway/transport bookshops anywhere; Motor Books in London went a few years ago and the only one I can think of in London is the London Transport Museum but their opening hours are very restricted. You are left with preserved lines and places like STEAM and the NRM..

Yes - transport book shops are thin on the ground, and some of those
that remain seem to be mainly stockists of second hand books, plus a
small range of transport books. Some of them hire stands at model
railway exhibitions.

Shops on heritage railways are a mixed bunch -- some seem to rely on
selling "Thomas" type books & trinkets for young children, rather than
titles suitable for adult enthusiasts.

[Marland]

Post by Bevan Price

Post by G***@live.co.uk
There are now very few specialist railway/transport bookshops anywhere;
Motor Books in London went a few years ago and the only one I can think
of in London is the London Transport Museum but their opening hours are
very restricted. You are left with preserved lines and places like STEAM and the NRM..

Yes - transport book shops are thin on the ground, and some of those
that remain seem to be mainly stockists of second hand books, plus a
small range of transport books. Some of them hire stands at model
railway exhibitions.
Shops on heritage railways are a mixed bunch -- some seem to rely on
selling "Thomas" type books & trinkets for young children, rather than
titles suitable for adult enthusiasts.

Is there much more to be written about many subjects to fill the shelves of
such specialised bookshops now,there can only so many times that the the
history of GWR or LMS locomotives can be written and while occasionally an
Author may turn up something new a lot of writings are just some more
photos that have come to light with some writing between them.
There are of course those who write on something really specialised but the
subject matter then becomes only appealing to a very few and spread over a
number of bookshops the number sat on shelves waiting for the person who
wants to purchase and read up on Toilet flush chains of the LNER *
on a visit a shop must tie up copies for years, in the Internet age
ordering direct from the publisher seems a better way to go for such
specialised fields and has the benefit that the publisher which may be the
writer themselves can print a run ,sell them and then if required print
some more . It also allows them to risk publishing a publication on a
subject that only a few will buy a book on , though not liked by some an E
book really does keep costs to a minimum and allows for someones writing to
get to an audience which would not be viable by the traditional route.

Obviously history isn’t static and new eras of development will bring new
subjects to write about
but unlike the past when the time comes for someone to write about about
how Hitachi won a contract
to build new trains for Britains Railways a lot of people who would have
purchased such a book in the past will because of the WWW and various
forums already know just as much about the subject anyway.


* Actually some of the publications on specialised subjects amaze me and
more power to their elbow
as a dip into someone else interest can be fascinating, even so I wonder
who thought there was enough interest to publish something like “London
Trolleybus Wiring North and East “ which features diagrams of the network
of wires with junctions etc of the routes and depots in those areas.
Just what do you do with such information. I just picked that at random
there are similar tomes on just as obscure subjects.

GH

[Arthur Figgis]

Post by Marland
* Actually some of the publications on specialised subjects amaze me and
more power to their elbow
as a dip into someone else interest can be fascinating, even so I wonder
who thought there was enough interest to publish something like “London
Trolleybus Wiring North and East “ which features diagrams of the network
of wires with junctions etc of the routes and depots in those areas.
Just what do you do with such information. I just picked that at random
there are similar tomes on just as obscure subjects.

I bought a book online, and now every month the seller sends me an
(unwrapped) catalogue promoting things like "Shoelaces of the Waffen SS
Vol.5". One company - it might be the same one - lists its books
alphabetically rather than by subject, so you get "Aachen Municipal
Manhole Cover Designs 1933-45" and "Aardvark Breeding for Fun and
Profit" on the same page.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Arthur Figgis

* Actually some of the publications on specialised subjects amaze me  and
more power to their elbow
as a dip into someone else interest can be fascinating, even so I wonder
who thought there was enough interest to publish something like “London
Trolleybus Wiring North and East  “ which features diagrams of the
network
of wires with junctions etc of the routes and depots in those areas.
Just what do you do with such information. I just picked that at random
there are similar tomes on just as obscure subjects.

I bought a book online, and now every month the seller sends me an
(unwrapped) catalogue promoting things like "Shoelaces of the Waffen SS
Vol.5". One company - it might be the same one - lists its books
alphabetically rather than by subject, so you get "Aachen Municipal
Manhole Cover Designs 1933-45" and "Aardvark Breeding for Fun and
Profit" on the same page.

I can recommend the latter…

[puffernutter]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Arthur Figgis

* Actually some of the publications on specialised subjects amaze me and
more power to their elbow
as a dip into someone else interest can be fascinating, even so I wonder
who thought there was enough interest to publish something like “London
Trolleybus Wiring North and East “ which features diagrams of the
network
of wires with junctions etc of the routes and depots in those areas.
Just what do you do with such information. I just picked that at random
there are similar tomes on just as obscure subjects.

I bought a book online, and now every month the seller sends me an
(unwrapped) catalogue promoting things like "Shoelaces of the Waffen SS
Vol.5". One company - it might be the same one - lists its books
alphabetically rather than by subject, so you get "Aachen Municipal
Manhole Cover Designs 1933-45" and "Aardvark Breeding for Fun and
Profit" on the same page.

I can recommend the latter…
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

There was the story of the person who went into a bookshop and asked if they had a copy of Michael Caine's fastest biography. They were asked "Do you know the title", the response was "Not a lot of people know that", in that case said the assistant, "Do you know the ISBN?".... Probably not true, but fun anyway!

Puffer

[Arthur Figgis]

Post by puffernutter
There was the story of the person who went into a bookshop and asked
if they had a copy of Michael Caine's fastest biography. They were
asked "Do you know the title", the response was "Not a lot of people
know that", in that case said the assistant, "Do you know the
ISBN?".... Probably not true, but fun anyway!

Do you have the new book on tortoises?
Hardback...?

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by puffernutter
There was the story of the person who went into a bookshop and asked
if they had a copy of Michael Caine's fastest biography. They were
asked "Do you know the title", the response was "Not a lot of people
know that", in that case said the assistant, "Do you know the
ISBN?".... Probably not true, but fun anyway!

Do you have the new book on tortoises?
Hardback...?

A bit of a slow seller.

[Sam Wilson]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by puffernutter
There was the story of the person who went into a bookshop and asked
if they had a copy of Michael Caine's fastest biography. They were
asked "Do you know the title", the response was "Not a lot of people
know that", in that case said the assistant, "Do you know the
ISBN?".... Probably not true, but fun anyway!

Do you have the new book on tortoises?
Hardback...?

A bit of a slow seller.

Plodding.

Sam

[Clank]

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by Marland
* Actually some of the publications on specialised subjects amaze me and
more power to their elbow
as a dip into someone else interest can be fascinating, even so I wonder
who thought there was enough interest to publish something like “London
Trolleybus Wiring North and East “ which features diagrams of the network
of wires with junctions etc of the routes and depots in those areas.
Just what do you do with such information. I just picked that at random
there are similar tomes on just as obscure subjects.

I bought a book online, and now every month the seller sends me an
(unwrapped) catalogue promoting things like "Shoelaces of the Waffen SS
Vol.5". One company - it might be the same one - lists its books
alphabetically rather than by subject, so you get "Aachen Municipal
Manhole Cover Designs 1933-45" and "Aardvark Breeding for Fun and
Profit" on the same page.

While I appreciate I'm getting to this thread late - I have to thank
you for giving me the first genuine laugh in a long day!

[Theo]

Post by Marland
* Actually some of the publications on specialised subjects amaze me and
more power to their elbow
as a dip into someone else interest can be fascinating, even so I wonder
who thought there was enough interest to publish something like “London
Trolleybus Wiring North and East “ which features diagrams of the network
of wires with junctions etc of the routes and depots in those areas.
Just what do you do with such information. I just picked that at random
there are similar tomes on just as obscure subjects.

I looked that up and it's from 1983. In that earlier age, book distribution
was all there was - and books were the way people got information. The
bottom end of book distribution involved photocopied pages in haphazard
bindings, but still 'a book'.

These days such things might merit a website, and readers would get the
content faster and potentially with more engagement. The internet is full
of sites that entertain those who appreciate lists of <whatevers>.

Nowadays the market for books is more limited. Serious academic
publications is one end, people who don't like computers is the other end.
I do wonder how much such things are essentially vanity publications where
the author is paying for the book to be published rather than as a
profit-making endeavour. OTOH print on demand these days means you can
publish things for zero inventory costs, so why not offer obscure titles
just in case someone might buy them?

Theo

[Andrew Clarke]

Post by Theo
These days such things might merit a website, and readers would get the
content faster and potentially with more engagement. The internet is full
of sites that entertain those who appreciate lists of <whatevers>.
Nowadays the market for books is more limited. Serious academic
publications is one end, people who don't like computers is the other end.
I do wonder how much such things are essentially vanity publications where
the author is paying for the book to be published rather than as a
profit-making endeavour. OTOH print on demand these days means you can
publish things for zero inventory costs, so why not offer obscure titles
just in case someone might buy them?

I wonder what the current market is for all those pictorials called "The LNER in [wherever]" that seemed to be the staple of railway publishing? Or, at the other end of the scale, a really good, professionally informed, biography of Sir William Stanier? Or, indeed any kind of transport publishing, with the possible exception of canals, given the growth of public interest?

Another factor is the rise of the e-book industry. In order to save wall space and pacify SWMBO who occasionally, like Edina Monsoon, wanders around the house saying "where are my surfaces, darling?"*, I went through all our hard copy books and bought Kindle or Kobo versions wherever available. I think the only railway title found was "Along Parallel Lines", a scholarly history of railway development in New South Wales. On the other hand, there are a zillion e-bodice-rippers out there, including a series for women who fantasise about firemen. Perhaps if there were more women who fantasise about engine-drivers we might see a bit more action in our own area of interest? At the moment there are several e-editions of "The Railway Children" available, and virtually nothing else.

I agree that websites and FB pages are the way to go. In fact FB now regularly sends me e-mails about pages I might be interested in. They are all about the railways of NSW.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

*referred to as SDS - Surfaces Darling Syndrome. My wife cleans up for the cleaner.

[Theo]

Post by Andrew Clarke
I wonder what the current market is for all those pictorials called "The
LNER in [wherever]" that seemed to be the staple of railway publishing?

I assume the thought process is something like: "Grandpa likes trains, let's
get him a book with pictures of steam trains. That one has nice
pictures.". And once that market is saturated the book rapidly ends up in
the bargain bookshop for 2.99.

I'm not sure that market is really railway publishing, it seems there's a
similar market for pictures of cars, or dogs, or whatever. I wouldn't be
surprised if that end of the market is occupied by the same publishers,
irrespective of the subject matter.

Post by Andrew Clarke
Or, at the other end of the scale, a really good, professionally informed,
biography of Sir William Stanier? Or, indeed any kind of transport
publishing, with the possible exception of canals, given the growth of
public interest?

These days you can probably make a profit on a relatively small production
batch, if priced at a cost-plus basis. Carry enough obscure titles and you
maybe can make it pay?

Post by Andrew Clarke
Another factor is the rise of the e-book industry. In order to save wall
space and pacify SWMBO who occasionally, like Edina Monsoon, wanders
around the house saying "where are my surfaces, darling?"*, I went through
all our hard copy books and bought Kindle or Kobo versions wherever
available. I think the only railway title found was "Along Parallel
Lines", a scholarly history of railway development in New South Wales. On
the other hand, there are a zillion e-bodice-rippers out there, including
a series for women who fantasise about firemen. Perhaps if there were
more women who fantasise about engine-drivers we might see a bit more
action in our own area of interest? At the moment there are several
e-editions of "The Railway Children" available, and virtually nothing
else.

I suspect the genre which is 'pictures of trains interspersed with ancillary
information' won't translate well to e-book. Books that are mostly words
are probably fine, although it seems like e-book use has plateaued.
Maybe the audience just doesn't like e-books?

Post by Andrew Clarke
I agree that websites and FB pages are the way to go. In fact FB now
regularly sends me e-mails about pages I might be interested in. They are
all about the railways of NSW.

FB pages seem to be mostly posting pictures of stuff. I can't imagine them
working very well for cataloguing the telegraph codes of the M&GN, or any
other kind of non-pictorial information.

Theo

[G***@live.co.uk]

Post by Theo

Post by Andrew Clarke
I wonder what the current market is for all those pictorials called "The
LNER in [wherever]" that seemed to be the staple of railway publishing?

I assume the thought process is something like: "Grandpa likes trains, let's
get him a book with pictures of steam trains. That one has nice
pictures.". And once that market is saturated the book rapidly ends up in
the bargain bookshop for 2.99.

Although not a grandpa, I get that from certain relatives and I now specifically ask that people do not buy me railway books as presents unless they know I either want it or don't already have it!

Post by Theo
I'm not sure that market is really railway publishing, it seems there's a
similar market for pictures of cars, or dogs, or whatever. I wouldn't be
surprised if that end of the market is occupied by the same publishers,
irrespective of the subject matter.

Post by Andrew Clarke
Or, at the other end of the scale, a really good, professionally informed,
biography of Sir William Stanier? Or, indeed any kind of transport
publishing, with the possible exception of canals, given the growth of
public interest?

These days you can probably make a profit on a relatively small production
batch, if priced at a cost-plus basis. Carry enough obscure titles and you
maybe can make it pay?

Post by Andrew Clarke
Another factor is the rise of the e-book industry. In order to save wall
space and pacify SWMBO who occasionally, like Edina Monsoon, wanders
around the house saying "where are my surfaces, darling?"*, I went through
all our hard copy books and bought Kindle or Kobo versions wherever
available. I think the only railway title found was "Along Parallel
Lines", a scholarly history of railway development in New South Wales. On
the other hand, there are a zillion e-bodice-rippers out there, including
a series for women who fantasise about firemen. Perhaps if there were
more women who fantasise about engine-drivers we might see a bit more
action in our own area of interest? At the moment there are several
e-editions of "The Railway Children" available, and virtually nothing
else.

I suspect the genre which is 'pictures of trains interspersed with ancillary
information' won't translate well to e-book. Books that are mostly words
are probably fine, although it seems like e-book use has plateaued.
Maybe the audience just doesn't like e-books?

Post by Andrew Clarke
I agree that websites and FB pages are the way to go. In fact FB now
regularly sends me e-mails about pages I might be interested in. They are
all about the railways of NSW.

FB pages seem to be mostly posting pictures of stuff. I can't imagine them
working very well for cataloguing the telegraph codes of the M&GN, or any
other kind of non-pictorial information.
Theo

I think the issue about ebooks, websites etc is the future research issue - a physical book will last, effectively, forever, whereas electronic media will not.

[bob]

Post by Theo

Post by Andrew Clarke
I wonder what the current market is for all those pictorials called "The
LNER in [wherever]" that seemed to be the staple of railway publishing?

I assume the thought process is something like: "Grandpa likes trains, let's
get him a book with pictures of steam trains. That one has nice
pictures.". And once that market is saturated the book rapidly ends up in
the bargain bookshop for 2.99.
I'm not sure that market is really railway publishing, it seems there's a
similar market for pictures of cars, or dogs, or whatever. I wouldn't be
surprised if that end of the market is occupied by the same publishers,
irrespective of the subject matter.

Post by Andrew Clarke
Or, at the other end of the scale, a really good, professionally informed,
biography of Sir William Stanier? Or, indeed any kind of transport
publishing, with the possible exception of canals, given the growth of
public interest?

These days you can probably make a profit on a relatively small production
batch, if priced at a cost-plus basis. Carry enough obscure titles and you
maybe can make it pay?

Post by Andrew Clarke
Another factor is the rise of the e-book industry. In order to save wall
space and pacify SWMBO who occasionally, like Edina Monsoon, wanders
around the house saying "where are my surfaces, darling?"*, I went through
all our hard copy books and bought Kindle or Kobo versions wherever
available. I think the only railway title found was "Along Parallel
Lines", a scholarly history of railway development in New South Wales. On
the other hand, there are a zillion e-bodice-rippers out there, including
a series for women who fantasise about firemen. Perhaps if there were
more women who fantasise about engine-drivers we might see a bit more
action in our own area of interest? At the moment there are several
e-editions of "The Railway Children" available, and virtually nothing
else.

I suspect the genre which is 'pictures of trains interspersed with ancillary
information' won't translate well to e-book. Books that are mostly words
are probably fine, although it seems like e-book use has plateaued.
Maybe the audience just doesn't like e-books?

Post by Andrew Clarke
I agree that websites and FB pages are the way to go. In fact FB now
regularly sends me e-mails about pages I might be interested in. They are
all about the railways of NSW.

FB pages seem to be mostly posting pictures of stuff. I can't imagine them
working very well for cataloguing the telegraph codes of the M&GN, or any
other kind of non-pictorial information.

There is a reason Bezos started Amazon out as a bookstore. Books are a
business where there is a "long tail" in that a relatively small number
of titles capture the majority of the market and there are a large
number of titles that, while they can be sold profitably, have a niche
market with low sales volumes. For a retail shop this is a difficult
business to make money in because of the relatively high overhead of
stock with a low turnover, but by selling online it is possible to
consilidate the sales of a lot of these low turnover products into a
profitable business by capturing the market over a large population
from a single physical location. In the absence of inernet sales, a
small specialist shop can make a business out of this sort of thing,
but in competition with online shopping (not neccessarily ebooks, but
just buying physical books from a website) it is increasingly hard for
this kind of niche specialist retail shop to make money.

Robin

[Jeremy Double]

Post by Theo

Post by Andrew Clarke
I wonder what the current market is for all those pictorials called "The
LNER in [wherever]" that seemed to be the staple of railway publishing?

I assume the thought process is something like: "Grandpa likes trains, let's
get him a book with pictures of steam trains. That one has nice
pictures.". And once that market is saturated the book rapidly ends up in
the bargain bookshop for 2.99.
I'm not sure that market is really railway publishing, it seems there's a
similar market for pictures of cars, or dogs, or whatever. I wouldn't be
surprised if that end of the market is occupied by the same publishers,
irrespective of the subject matter.

Post by Andrew Clarke
Or, at the other end of the scale, a really good, professionally informed,
biography of Sir William Stanier? Or, indeed any kind of transport
publishing, with the possible exception of canals, given the growth of
public interest?

These days you can probably make a profit on a relatively small production
batch, if priced at a cost-plus basis. Carry enough obscure titles and you
maybe can make it pay?

Post by Andrew Clarke
Another factor is the rise of the e-book industry. In order to save wall
space and pacify SWMBO who occasionally, like Edina Monsoon, wanders
around the house saying "where are my surfaces, darling?"*, I went through
all our hard copy books and bought Kindle or Kobo versions wherever
available. I think the only railway title found was "Along Parallel
Lines", a scholarly history of railway development in New South Wales. On
the other hand, there are a zillion e-bodice-rippers out there, including
a series for women who fantasise about firemen. Perhaps if there were
more women who fantasise about engine-drivers we might see a bit more
action in our own area of interest? At the moment there are several
e-editions of "The Railway Children" available, and virtually nothing
else.

I suspect the genre which is 'pictures of trains interspersed with ancillary
information' won't translate well to e-book. Books that are mostly words
are probably fine, although it seems like e-book use has plateaued.
Maybe the audience just doesn't like e-books?

Osprey publishing (who do heavily illustrated military history books,
mostly quite slim volumes on a specific topic) offer their books in PDF
format, as well as ePub (as used by Kindle etc). I much prefer a PDF for
this sort of book, the ePub format doesn’t work well for mixed
illustrations and text.

[Andrew Clarke]

FB pages seem to be mostly posting pictures of stuff. I can't imagine them
working very well for cataloguing the telegraph codes of the M&GN, or any
other kind of non-pictorial information.

Exactly. The NSW ones are a good example.
To me, the pictorials always seemed to look very much the same. A B1 in a cutting in Leicestershire doesn't look all that much different from a B1 in a cutting anywhere else ...

In keeping with this ng's glorious tradition of topic drift, I have a question about rebetiko. Lots of it on You Tube, but online translations look dodgyy. For example, the second line of

'Enas mangas sto Votaniko
Pi kai fi (e)ksigi'etai sto lepto'
has been translated as
'He says what he likes without fear'
Literally it seems to read
'Quickly he is explained in a minute' ????

Any suggestions re a better translation? Lots of bars and caf'es in Greece seem to be called "Pi kai fi", not to mention a chain of shoe repair franchises, but nowhere can I find a translation. Google Translate and Bab.la just give up.

Here is a video of Caf'e Am'an performing it in the ticket hall of Piraeus Broadway railway station:

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Certes]

Post by Andrew Clarke

FB pages seem to be mostly posting pictures of stuff. I can't imagine them
working very well for cataloguing the telegraph codes of the M&GN, or any
other kind of non-pictorial information.

Exactly. The NSW ones are a good example.
To me, the pictorials always seemed to look very much the same. A B1 in a cutting in Leicestershire doesn't look all that much different from a B1 in a cutting anywhere else ...
In keeping with this ng's glorious tradition of topic drift, I have a question about rebetiko. Lots of it on You Tube, but online translations look dodgyy. For example, the second line of
'Enas mangas sto Votaniko
Pi kai fi (e)ksigi'etai sto lepto'
has been translated as
'He says what he likes without fear'
Literally it seems to read
'Quickly he is explained in a minute' ????
Any suggestions re a better translation? Lots of bars and caf'es in Greece seem to be called "Pi kai fi", not to mention a chain of shoe repair franchises, but nowhere can I find a translation. Google Translate and Bab.la just give up.
http://youtu.be/GO4OSUDSZ88
Andrew Clarke
Canberra

This may be helpful:
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/στο_πι_και_φι>

If that gets garbled by a newsreader, try
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%83%CF%84%CE%BF_%CF%80%CE%B9_%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%B9_%CF%86%CE%B9>

[Andrew Clarke]

Post by Certes
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/στο_πι_και_φι>
If that gets garbled by a newsreader, try
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%83%CF%84%CE%BF_%CF%80%CE%B9_%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%B9_%CF%86%CE%B9>

Thanks, Certes: I did find a recording that included the "sto" (= 'at'). I suppose what 'p' and 'f' originally stood for are lost in the mists of time.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
whose only Greek until very recently has been two expressions from a Cypriot schoolfriend in Melbourne, neither suitable for polite company.

[Charles Ellson]

On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 14:59:43 -0700 (PDT), Andrew Clarke

Post by Andrew Clarke

FB pages seem to be mostly posting pictures of stuff. I can't imagine them
working very well for cataloguing the telegraph codes of the M&GN, or any
other kind of non-pictorial information.

Exactly. The NSW ones are a good example.
To me, the pictorials always seemed to look very much the same. A B1 in a cutting in Leicestershire doesn't look all that much different from a B1 in a cutting anywhere else ...
In keeping with this ng's glorious tradition of topic drift, I have a question about rebetiko. Lots of it on You Tube, but online translations look dodgyy. For example, the second line of
'Enas mangas sto Votaniko
Pi kai fi (e)ksigi'etai sto lepto'
has been translated as
'He says what he likes without fear'
Literally it seems to read
'Quickly he is explained in a minute' ????
Any suggestions re a better translation? Lots of bars and caf'es in Greece seem to be called "Pi kai fi", not to mention a chain of shoe repair franchises, but nowhere can I find a translation. Google Translate and Bab.la just give up.
http://youtu.be/GO4OSUDSZ88

Another variation of line 2 in :-
https://lyrics-on.net/en/1055035-enas-mangas-sto-votaniko-nas-magkas-sto-votaniko-lyrics.html
"He tells what he wants without fear"

Apparently there are at least four versions with an earlier one from
1933 :-
https://greekgirlsrule.livejournal.com/31668.html

[Andrew Clarke]

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by Andrew Clarke
'Enas mangas sto Votaniko
Pi kai fi (e)ksigi'etai sto lepto'
has been translated as
'He says what he likes without fear'
Literally it seems to read
'Quickly he is explained in a minute' ????
Any suggestions re a better translation? Lots of bars and caf'es in Greece seem to be called "Pi kai fi", not to mention a chain of shoe repair franchises, but nowhere can I find a translation. Google Translate and Bab.la just give up.
http://youtu.be/GO4OSUDSZ88

Another variation of line 2 in :-
https://lyrics-on.net/en/1055035-enas-mangas-sto-votaniko-nas-magkas-sto-votaniko-lyrics.html
"He tells what he wants without fear"

I suspect that the above is also a wild guess, but I could be horribly wrong. The verb is the 3rd person singular passive tense of "to explain" and looks like the English word "exegesis". "Sto lepto" seems to mean "in a minute".

Post by Charles Ellson
Apparently there are at least four versions with an earlier one from
1933 :-
https://greekgirlsrule.livejournal.com/31668.html

I've come across two versions on You Tube. Both start off with the same two lines, and both say he's the toughest "wise guy" in Votaniko and that he makes the other "wise guys" shake with fright.

The first version is the one in the video and it can also be found in a 1934 recording by Zacharias Kazimatis, also on You Tube. There are overt references to Perdikaki's drug den which is where the man from Votaniko takes his bird (gomena) to get her stoned when Angelo lights up the hookah. (Other amateur linguists in this group will recognise the similarity between "gomena" and the Neapolitan slang for mistress, "goom'a", used in "The Sopranos".)

In the second version, instead of going to a drug den, he goes to where rebetiko can be found. He breaks glasses, he wants a brunette and when he's drunk he wants a blonde as well. There are no references to drugs whatsoever that I can see, so I suspect that this might be a later, cleaned up version.

Meanwhile, here is a music video for all our German speaking contributors; some might even remember the original recording:

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
whose birthday present - a second hand model of 'Sir Harry Le Fise Lake' - arrived today. Thank you Hattons ...

[Andrew Clarke]

Post by Charles Ellson
Apparently there are at least four versions with an earlier one from
1933 :-
https://greekgirlsrule.livejournal.com/31668.html

On reflection, one reason why there are so many versions of "Enas maga sto Votaniko" might be political. The dictatorship of General Metaxas, form 1936 until his death in 1941, cracked down on the hash dens and their culture, and all mention of drugs was prohibited by official censorship. I believe you could be arrested for walking around with a bouzouki. Hence the need to remove drug references from the words of ribetika if you wanted to be able to legally perform them.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[[e-mail]]

Further update on the closure.
https://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/10405?fbclid=IwAR0e4EizTJVCNl4cUtu3mjKNRgVTK0qtBCGcW03jwaYfhuvypfCsg-HtkAU
"The bookshop and model shop has been a place of pilgrimage for the nation's railway, bus and aviation enthusiasts for many decades.
It will close its doors for the last time on Saturday 31 October.
A closing down sale will begin soon, with DVDs and models to be reduced by 33 per cent from Saturday 26 September and books to be marked down to half price from Saturday 10 October.
The company's founder Ian Allan, who died in 2015 at the age of 92, grew up with the ambition to be stationmaster at Waterloo Station.
Although he never achieved that role, he did work as a clerk for the Southern Railway's publicity department at Waterloo during World War II – and this was how he got into publishing books for railway enthusiasts.
In a 2004 Guardian interview he said: "I published my first locospotters' guide, the ABC of Southern Locomotives, in 1943.
"Printed 2,000 for a print bill of £42. Sold out immediately at 1/- [5p] a copy. My first business adventure."
Sometimes credited as the man who created trainspotting, he set up the Ian Allan Locospotters Club which had 230,000 members at its peak.
Over the years the Ian Allan Group diversified into masonic publishing, regalia, hotels, car dealerships, travel agents and organic gardening products.
The group has shrunk its operations in recent years and the Waterloo shop is the last survivor of a nationwide network of Ian Allan bookshops.
Earlier this year the shop was prosecuted by Lambeth Council for selling a knife to an underage customer as part of a modelmaking tool kit."

[Marland]

Post by Theo

Post by Marland
* Actually some of the publications on specialised subjects amaze me and
more power to their elbow
as a dip into someone else interest can be fascinating, even so I wonder
who thought there was enough interest to publish something like “London
Trolleybus Wiring North and East I just picked that at random
there are similar tomes on just as obscure subjects.

I looked that up and it's from 1983. In that earlier age, book distribution
was all there was - and books were the way people got information. The
bottom end of book distribution involved photocopied pages in haphazard
bindings, but still 'a book'.
These days such things might merit a website, and readers would get the
content faster and potentially with more engagement. The internet is full
of sites that entertain those who appreciate lists of <whatevers>.
Nowadays the market for books is more limited. Serious academic
publications is one end, people who don't like computers is the other end.
I do wonder how much such things are essentially vanity publications where
the author is paying for the book to be published rather than as a
profit-making endeavour. OTOH print on demand these days means you can
publish things for zero inventory costs, so why not offer obscure titles
just in case someone might buy them?
Theo

Agree wholeheartedly, the situation for those who have embraced the WWW and
its offshoots is probably better than it ever has been for actually
reading up on things and having a glance at a subject that while not
normally in ones sphere of interests is nevertheless worth having a peruse
over.
Previously a chance glance at something different in a library could fulfil
a similar role but they are closing or keeping less stock.
For authors and smaller short run printers it means they have not wasted
investment in stock that could sit for years on the shelves of shops in the
vain hope that someone discovers it .

That doesn’t help physical bookstores though which is where we came in.
Many who sold the specialised titles would have been supporting the
business by selling quick selling fiction titles by authors under well
known names such as Catherine Cookson whose followers reliably purchased
the latest work time after time , that prop has been seriously undermined
by the likes of Kindle and other E Readers which have the advantage that
in homes with less space for storage shelves full of books can repurposed
to other essentials . If more people do end up working from home that
problem will be exacerbated .

I am fortunate in that there is still an independent bookshop a few miles
away which I use on occasions if I do want a hard copy of something, run by
a young couple who purchased the business from the previous long
established owners. They adapted it to be a little more than a bookshop by
catering for musicians by selling specialised items such as Guitar strings
,Drum sticks etc ,adding the inevitable
Coffee Machine having a piano that can be played and the occasional gentle
music event (BC of course) so it has become a little hub for “crafty” and
Bohemian types. A mile away from the dark dusty bookshop of old run by a
crusty old git who glared from a desk in the corner.

Talking of Bookshop owners and going off piste a bit ,
I wonder how many people who see have seen this person on the telly in this
guise.

Loading Image...
would realise his day job is this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-51129840

They say you can’t tell a book by its cover.

GH

[Bevan Price]

Post by Marland

Post by Theo

Post by Marland
* Actually some of the publications on specialised subjects amaze me and
more power to their elbow
as a dip into someone else interest can be fascinating, even so I wonder
who thought there was enough interest to publish something like “London
Trolleybus Wiring North and East I just picked that at random
there are similar tomes on just as obscure subjects.

I looked that up and it's from 1983. In that earlier age, book distribution
was all there was - and books were the way people got information. The
bottom end of book distribution involved photocopied pages in haphazard
bindings, but still 'a book'.
These days such things might merit a website, and readers would get the
content faster and potentially with more engagement. The internet is full
of sites that entertain those who appreciate lists of <whatevers>.
Nowadays the market for books is more limited. Serious academic
publications is one end, people who don't like computers is the other end.
I do wonder how much such things are essentially vanity publications where
the author is paying for the book to be published rather than as a
profit-making endeavour. OTOH print on demand these days means you can
publish things for zero inventory costs, so why not offer obscure titles
just in case someone might buy them?
Theo

Agree wholeheartedly, the situation for those who have embraced the WWW and
its offshoots is probably better than it ever has been for actually
reading up on things and having a glance at a subject that while not
normally in ones sphere of interests is nevertheless worth having a peruse
over.
Previously a chance glance at something different in a library could fulfil
a similar role but they are closing or keeping less stock.
For authors and smaller short run printers it means they have not wasted
investment in stock that could sit for years on the shelves of shops in the
vain hope that someone discovers it .
That doesn’t help physical bookstores though which is where we came in.
Many who sold the specialised titles would have been supporting the
business by selling quick selling fiction titles by authors under well
known names such as Catherine Cookson whose followers reliably purchased
the latest work time after time , that prop has been seriously undermined
by the likes of Kindle and other E Readers which have the advantage that
in homes with less space for storage shelves full of books can repurposed
to other essentials . If more people do end up working from home that
problem will be exacerbated .

A lot of bookshops (new, and quality secondhand) have been driven out of
business because their trade in "cheap" fiction books has been lost due
to the plague of charity shops selling 2nd-hand fiction books at low
prices that cannot be matched by "real" booksellers.
(I understand that charity shops get some tax advantages that do not
apply to other shops -- and some are staffed by unpaid volunteers.)

[G***@live.co.uk]

Post by Bevan Price

Post by Marland

Post by Theo

Post by Marland
* Actually some of the publications on specialised subjects amaze me and
more power to their elbow
as a dip into someone else interest can be fascinating, even so I wonder
who thought there was enough interest to publish something like “London
Trolleybus Wiring North and East I just picked that at random
there are similar tomes on just as obscure subjects.

I looked that up and it's from 1983. In that earlier age, book distribution
was all there was - and books were the way people got information. The
bottom end of book distribution involved photocopied pages in haphazard
bindings, but still 'a book'.
These days such things might merit a website, and readers would get the
content faster and potentially with more engagement. The internet is full
of sites that entertain those who appreciate lists of <whatevers>.
Nowadays the market for books is more limited. Serious academic
publications is one end, people who don't like computers is the other end.
I do wonder how much such things are essentially vanity publications where
the author is paying for the book to be published rather than as a
profit-making endeavour. OTOH print on demand these days means you can
publish things for zero inventory costs, so why not offer obscure titles
just in case someone might buy them?
Theo

Agree wholeheartedly, the situation for those who have embraced the WWW and
its offshoots is probably better than it ever has been for actually
reading up on things and having a glance at a subject that while not
normally in ones sphere of interests is nevertheless worth having a peruse
over.
Previously a chance glance at something different in a library could fulfil
a similar role but they are closing or keeping less stock.
For authors and smaller short run printers it means they have not wasted
investment in stock that could sit for years on the shelves of shops in the
vain hope that someone discovers it .
That doesn’t help physical bookstores though which is where we came in.
Many who sold the specialised titles would have been supporting the
business by selling quick selling fiction titles by authors under well
known names such as Catherine Cookson whose followers reliably purchased
the latest work time after time , that prop has been seriously undermined
by the likes of Kindle and other E Readers which have the advantage that
in homes with less space for storage shelves full of books can repurposed
to other essentials . If more people do end up working from home that
problem will be exacerbated .

A lot of bookshops (new, and quality secondhand) have been driven out of
business because their trade in "cheap" fiction books has been lost due
to the plague of charity shops selling 2nd-hand fiction books at low
prices that cannot be matched by "real" booksellers.
(I understand that charity shops get some tax advantages that do not
apply to other shops -- and some are staffed by unpaid volunteers.)

Oxfam in particular has a bad reputation for trying to undercut established bookshops, eg in Rochester, where it was alleged locally that theirr shop forced a number of established shops out of business and in my home town of Letchworth, where they opened a shop but it didn't last because many locals refused to patronise it, realising what its purpose was.

[Certes]

Post by Theo

Post by Marland
* Actually some of the publications on specialised subjects amaze me and
more power to their elbow
as a dip into someone else interest can be fascinating, even so I wonder
who thought there was enough interest to publish something like “London
Trolleybus Wiring North and East “ which features diagrams of the network
of wires with junctions etc of the routes and depots in those areas.
Just what do you do with such information. I just picked that at random
there are similar tomes on just as obscure subjects.

I looked that up and it's from 1983. In that earlier age, book distribution
was all there was - and books were the way people got information. The
bottom end of book distribution involved photocopied pages in haphazard
bindings, but still 'a book'.
These days such things might merit a website, and readers would get the
content faster and potentially with more engagement. The internet is full
of sites that entertain those who appreciate lists of <whatevers>.
Nowadays the market for books is more limited. Serious academic
publications is one end, people who don't like computers is the other end.
I do wonder how much such things are essentially vanity publications where
the author is paying for the book to be published rather than as a
profit-making endeavour. OTOH print on demand these days means you can
publish things for zero inventory costs, so why not offer obscure titles
just in case someone might buy them?

Some rare good news for retailers:
<https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/sep/11/we-havent-seen-anything-like-it-since-harry-potter-uk-bookshops-report-record-week>

[Weather or Not]

Post by Bevan Price

Post by G***@live.co.uk

Post by Trolleybus

Post by ***@sky.com
I read elsewhere that the Ian Allan shop near Waterloo is to close
permanently. Although Covid is being credited/blamed for its demise,
a fair few folk were of the opinion that it was not being managed
effectively pre-Covid and would have gone eventually. It also had a
bit of unlooked for expense/reputational damage earlier in the year
-  see
https://www.wandsworthguardian.co.uk/news/18184395.ian-allan-book-model-shop-fined-thousands-selling-knife-teen/

I've only used it a couple of times, but on both occasions the welcome
was far from warm.

I went there today and the staff confirmed that it would be gone
"before Christmas". Their opinion was that the owning company was not
interested in the business.

That was also the opinion when the Birmingham shop was being closed -
the staff though the owners had little or no interest in retail shops.
Living a long way from London, I only visited the Waterloo shop a couple
of times, but in each case, I got the impression that it had a narrower
stock range than either of their sadly departed shops in Manchester &
Birmingham.
I also wonder if it was making money, even before the fizzy pop virus,
because whenever I went there, there would be a few people in it but not
spending all that much money. I suspect the trade has been lost to
online retailers. My local independent bookshop has also significantly
reduced its railway and transport stock in recent years and I suspect
it's for the same reason.

Post by G***@live.co.uk
I generally found the staff there to be friendly and helpful, as it
happens but nothing ever seemed to be done to encourage custom; no
"BOGOF" offers or similar, for example.
There are now very few specialist railway/transport bookshops
anywhere; Motor Books in London went a few years ago and the only one
I can think of in London is the London Transport Museum but their
opening hours are very restricted. You are left with preserved lines
and places like STEAM and the NRM..

Yes - transport book shops are thin on the ground, and some of those
that remain seem to be mainly stockists of second hand books, plus a
small range of transport books. Some of them hire stands at model
railway exhibitions.
Shops on heritage railways are a mixed bunch -- some seem to rely on
selling "Thomas" type books & trinkets for young children, rather than
titles suitable for adult enthusiasts.

The station shop at Bridgnorth on the SVR, is an excellent shop for
railway books. Though I haven’t been since the SVR started running again
in August, so you may have to book to go onto a train, before you get
into the shop. OTOH, the shop may not be open has it's a shoe box shop,
and social distancing would be near impossible. You may get about half
dozen people in at a time.

[h***@yahoo.co.uk]

Post by Bevan Price

Post by G***@live.co.uk

Post by Trolleybus

Post by ***@sky.com
I read elsewhere that the Ian Allan shop near Waterloo is to close
permanently. Although Covid is being credited/blamed for its demise,
a fair few folk were of the opinion that it was not being managed
effectively pre-Covid and would have gone eventually. It also had a
bit of unlooked for expense/reputational damage earlier in the year
-  see
https://www.wandsworthguardian.co.uk/news/18184395.ian-allan-book-model-shop-fined-thousands-selling-knife-teen/

I've only used it a couple of times, but on both occasions the welcome
was far from warm.

I went there today and the staff confirmed that it would be gone
"before Christmas". Their opinion was that the owning company was not
interested in the business.

That was also the opinion when the Birmingham shop was being closed -
the staff though the owners had little or no interest in retail shops.
Living a long way from London, I only visited the Waterloo shop a couple
of times, but in each case, I got the impression that it had a narrower
stock range than either of their sadly departed shops in Manchester &
Birmingham.
I also wonder if it was making money, even before the fizzy pop virus,
because whenever I went there, there would be a few people in it but not
spending all that much money. I suspect the trade has been lost to
online retailers. My local independent bookshop has also significantly
reduced its railway and transport stock in recent years and I suspect
it's for the same reason.

Post by G***@live.co.uk
I generally found the staff there to be friendly and helpful, as it
happens but nothing ever seemed to be done to encourage custom; no
"BOGOF" offers or similar, for example.
There are now very few specialist railway/transport bookshops
anywhere; Motor Books in London went a few years ago and the only one
I can think of in London is the London Transport Museum but their
opening hours are very restricted. You are left with preserved lines
and places like STEAM and the NRM..

Yes - transport book shops are thin on the ground, and some of those
that remain seem to be mainly stockists of second hand books, plus a
small range of transport books. Some of them hire stands at model
railway exhibitions.

There is Foyle's, on Charing Cross Road in London.

[Anna Noyd-Dryver]

Post by Bevan Price

Post by G***@live.co.uk

Post by Trolleybus

Post by ***@sky.com
I read elsewhere that the Ian Allan shop near Waterloo is to close
permanently. Although Covid is being credited/blamed for its demise, a
fair few folk were of the opinion that it was not being managed
effectively pre-Covid and would have gone eventually. It also had a
bit of unlooked for expense/reputational damage earlier in the year - see
https://www.wandsworthguardian.co.uk/news/18184395.ian-allan-book-model-shop-fined-thousands-selling-knife-teen/

I've only used it a couple of times, but on both occasions the welcome
was far from warm.

I went there today and the staff confirmed that it would be gone "before
Christmas". Their opinion was that the owning company was not interested in the business.

That was also the opinion when the Birmingham shop was being closed -
the staff though the owners had little or no interest in retail shops.
Living a long way from London, I only visited the Waterloo shop a couple
of times, but in each case, I got the impression that it had a narrower
stock range than either of their sadly departed shops in Manchester &
Birmingham.

OTOH Waterloo had more international books than Manchester or Birmingham.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

[Recliner]

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by Bevan Price

Post by G***@live.co.uk

Post by Trolleybus

Post by ***@sky.com
I read elsewhere that the Ian Allan shop near Waterloo is to close
permanently. Although Covid is being credited/blamed for its demise, a
fair few folk were of the opinion that it was not being managed
effectively pre-Covid and would have gone eventually. It also had a
bit of unlooked for expense/reputational damage earlier in the year - see
https://www.wandsworthguardian.co.uk/news/18184395.ian-allan-book-model-shop-fined-thousands-selling-knife-teen/

I've only used it a couple of times, but on both occasions the welcome
was far from warm.

I went there today and the staff confirmed that it would be gone "before
Christmas". Their opinion was that the owning company was not
interested in the business.

That was also the opinion when the Birmingham shop was being closed -
the staff though the owners had little or no interest in retail shops.
Living a long way from London, I only visited the Waterloo shop a couple
of times, but in each case, I got the impression that it had a narrower
stock range than either of their sadly departed shops in Manchester &
Birmingham.

OTOH Waterloo had more international books than Manchester or Birmingham.

<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trainspotters-last-refuge-ian-allan-book-model-shop-puffs-towards-its-waterloo-sunset-j3t5cwpd6?shareToken=d786592246f0189b45f409ca9065d1f1>

[Alan]

Post by Trolleybus
I've only used it a couple of times, but on both occasions the welcome
was far from warm.

I had the misfortune of going into the bookshop on Stamford Station once
(its moved to the town centre now).
He has got to be one of the most blunt and rude people who ever owned a
shop.
I made a simple query about a book that had recently come out, and if he
had it.
Apparently I was meant to know the Publisher and the ISBN number before
asking, as he 'hasnt got time to search for a book for me'.There was no
one else in his shop.
He didnt get any custom from me,

[G***@live.co.uk]

Post by Alan

Post by Trolleybus
I've only used it a couple of times, but on both occasions the welcome
was far from warm.

I had the misfortune of going into the bookshop on Stamford Station once
(its moved to the town centre now).
He has got to be one of the most blunt and rude people who ever owned a
shop.
I made a simple query about a book that had recently come out, and if he
had it.
Apparently I was meant to know the Publisher and the ISBN number before
asking, as he 'hasnt got time to search for a book for me'.There was no
one else in his shop.
He didnt get any custom from me,

I have to admit I only went there once; I was simply browsing but found one book that I had been after (a second-hand long out-of-print Oakwood) and another that took my fancy (a biography of Sir Richard Moon), which pleased me but when I tried to make a bit of small talk about it while paying, I got nowhere - it seemed to be that once I had paid, I was expected to get out asap. Like you, there was no-one else in the shop at the time.

Severn Valley (Kidderminster), Swanage, Spa Valley, IoW, Mid-Hants and Bluebell Railways have good selections of books, BTW. Nene Valley and Torbay and Dartmouth do not! Great Central's not that good for new books but has a good second-hand selection.

[Dave Jackson]

Post by G***@live.co.uk
Severn Valley (Kidderminster), Swanage, Spa Valley, IoW, Mid-Hants and Bluebell Railways have good selections of books, BTW. Nene Valley and Torbay and Dartmouth do not! Great Central's not that good for new books but has a good second-hand selection.

I always manage to find something I "need" at Norchard on the DFR...
FTAOD they also cater for the Thomas enthusiasts,

[Marland]

Post by G***@live.co.uk

Post by Alan

Post by Trolleybus
I've only used it a couple of times, but on both occasions the welcome
was far from warm.

I had the misfortune of going into the bookshop on Stamford Station once
(its moved to the town centre now).
He has got to be one of the most blunt and rude people who ever owned a
shop.
I made a simple query about a book that had recently come out, and if he
had it.
Apparently I was meant to know the Publisher and the ISBN number before
asking, as he 'hasnt got time to search for a book for me'.There was no
one else in his shop.
He didnt get any custom from me,

I have to admit I only went there once; I was simply browsing but found
one book that I had been after (a second-hand long out-of-print Oakwood)
and another that took my fancy (a biography of Sir Richard Moon), which
pleased me but when I tried to make a bit of small talk about it while
paying, I got nowhere - it seemed to be that once I had paid, I was
expected to get out asap. Like you, there was no-one else in the shop at the time.
Severn Valley (Kidderminster), Swanage, Spa Valley, IoW, Mid-Hants and
Bluebell Railways have good selections of books, BTW. Nene Valley and
Torbay and Dartmouth do not! Great Central's not that good for new books
but has a good second-hand selection.

I expect some of the contributors to here have already visited but when
times are normal visiting Barters Bookshop in Alnwick Northumberland is a
pleasant way to spend an hour or more.
Many secondhand books of all types and located in the old station, a couple
of nice areas where you can peruse a book while supping a tea or coffee and
in the colder months a fire lit in one of the old waiting room fire places
to make it cosy.


https://www.barterbooks.co.uk/html/About%20Us/About%20the%20Station.php


GH

[Jeremy Double]

Post by G***@live.co.uk

Post by Alan

Post by Trolleybus
I've only used it a couple of times, but on both occasions the welcome
was far from warm.

I had the misfortune of going into the bookshop on Stamford Station once
(its moved to the town centre now).
He has got to be one of the most blunt and rude people who ever owned a
shop.
I made a simple query about a book that had recently come out, and if he
had it.
Apparently I was meant to know the Publisher and the ISBN number before
asking, as he 'hasnt got time to search for a book for me'.There was no
one else in his shop.
He didnt get any custom from me,

I have to admit I only went there once; I was simply browsing but found
one book that I had been after (a second-hand long out-of-print Oakwood)
and another that took my fancy (a biography of Sir Richard Moon), which
pleased me but when I tried to make a bit of small talk about it while
paying, I got nowhere - it seemed to be that once I had paid, I was
expected to get out asap. Like you, there was no-one else in the shop at the time.
Severn Valley (Kidderminster), Swanage, Spa Valley, IoW, Mid-Hants and
Bluebell Railways have good selections of books, BTW. Nene Valley and
Torbay and Dartmouth do not! Great Central's not that good for new books
but has a good second-hand selection.

On the Worth Valley, go to Haworth for new books and the Vintage Carriage
Trust museum at Ingrow for second hand.

[Anna Noyd-Dryver]

Post by G***@live.co.uk

Post by Alan

Post by Trolleybus
I've only used it a couple of times, but on both occasions the welcome
was far from warm.

I had the misfortune of going into the bookshop on Stamford Station once
(its moved to the town centre now).
He has got to be one of the most blunt and rude people who ever owned a
shop.
I made a simple query about a book that had recently come out, and if he
had it.
Apparently I was meant to know the Publisher and the ISBN number before
asking, as he 'hasnt got time to search for a book for me'.There was no
one else in his shop.
He didnt get any custom from me,

I have to admit I only went there once; I was simply browsing but found
one book that I had been after (a second-hand long out-of-print Oakwood)
and another that took my fancy (a biography of Sir Richard Moon), which
pleased me but when I tried to make a bit of small talk about it while
paying, I got nowhere - it seemed to be that once I had paid, I was
expected to get out asap. Like you, there was no-one else in the shop at the time.
Severn Valley (Kidderminster), Swanage, Spa Valley, IoW, Mid-Hants and
Bluebell Railways have good selections of books, BTW. Nene Valley and
Torbay and Dartmouth do not! Great Central's not that good for new books
but has a good second-hand selection.

Minehead has a good selection of both, IMX.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

[b***@gmail.com]

Post by Alan

Post by Trolleybus
I've only used it a couple of times, but on both occasions the welcome
was far from warm.

I had the misfortune of going into the bookshop on Stamford Station once
(its moved to the town centre now).
He has got to be one of the most blunt and rude people who ever owned a
shop.
I made a simple query about a book that had recently come out, and if he
had it.
Apparently I was meant to know the Publisher and the ISBN number before
asking, as he 'hasnt got time to search for a book for me'.There was no
one else in his shop.
He didnt get any custom from me,

I would hardly call the present location of the shop 'the centre of town'.
My one visit (I live a long way away) was successful in that it is a treasure trove of stuff, including s/hand and old rarities.

I spent about two hours browsing, found something I did not know existed (on the proprietor's suggestion)and bought it. (Biog of George Carr Glyn, banker and LNWR Chairman for many a year.) (I picked up the Moon biography elsewhere, only to find a s/hand bookshop in Taunton that had about 8 copies.)

I owuld happily return there are the stock is very extensive and comprehenmsive, not just the latest picture books. But I would not expect much conversation with the boss.

[Peter Johnson]

Post by ***@sky.com
I read elsewhere that the Ian Allan shop near Waterloo is to close permanently. Although Covid is being credited/blamed for its demise, a fair few folk were of the opinion that it was not being managed effectively pre-Covid and would have gone eventually. It also had a bit of unlooked for expense/reputational damage earlier in the year - see https://www.wandsworthguardian.co.uk/news/18184395.ian-allan-book-model-shop-fined-thousands-selling-knife-teen/

The other shops were closed when leases expired. This one continued
because the company owned the premises and was allegedly waiting for
the area to be redeveloped when a good offer to sell would be
expected.
But the company has retrenched seriously in recent years, withdrawing
from all printing and publishing to concentrate on its property
holdings. Don't know if it still owns the car dealerships. Running
just one bookshop was never going to have a long life in that
environment. Can't imagine that the knife prosecution would have had
much impact on its core clientel though.
So far as the publishing was concerned my view, for what its worth, is
that the company was slow to respond to the internet and when it did
respond its decision making was poor. It had a website that sold the
shop stock by mail order but it didn't promote their own books. Search
for latest titles and there would be none by Ian Allan. I complained
to the general manager but he assured me it was OK. I knew that it
wasn't.

[n***@gmail.com]

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