motorail

[Mystery Flyer]

Apologies if this has been discussed.

What happened to the motorail rolling stock and where is it now?

Is there any scope in the otrain operating franchises for a motorail
service - would it be part of passenger franchising or would it just be
a freight train?

Are there any detailed statistice on the service - movements, budgets,
revenue, expenses..

Anyone ever planned to rekindle a motorail service? (I see some press
from around 2001 but nothing since).

I just may be dreaming but the ramps are still in place at Inverness and
I would just love to ship my car rather than drive... How hard could it
be to run a freight train I thought on the train back last week.

mf

[Peter Masson]

Post by Mystery Flyer
Apologies if this has been discussed.
What happened to the motorail rolling stock and where is it now?
Is there any scope in the otrain operating franchises for a motorail
service - would it be part of passenger franchising or would it just be
a freight train?
Are there any detailed statistice on the service - movements, budgets,
revenue, expenses..
Anyone ever planned to rekindle a motorail service? (I see some press
from around 2001 but nothing since).
I just may be dreaming but the ramps are still in place at Inverness and
I would just love to ship my car rather than drive... How hard could it
be to run a freight train I thought on the train back last week.

FGW were at least considering running a Motorail service between paddington
and Penzance as recently as 2006 - the last reference I can find in the NRT
is in the December 2005 - June 2006 edition where a rather blank Table 501
is headed Motorail Services - Summer Service Only. IIRC FGW had some vans
fitted out and repainted for this service, though don't seem to have used
them, perhaps apart from a few trials.
Motorail was dropped from London - Scotland services when the sleeper trains
were reduced from 5 each way per night to 2 - presumably FSR thinks that 6
sleepers, a seating car and a lounge car are needed in each half set
(Inverness, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen/Fort William) in which case train
length considerations at Euston preclude tagging Motorail vans on to the
back of what are 16 coach trains.
With the alternatives of a long distance drive, mainly on motorways or dual
carriageways, or train or low coast airline and hiring a car at teh
destination I doubt that TOCs could make any money out of Motorail at an
affordable price.

Peter

[Peter Fox]

Post by Peter Masson

Post by Mystery Flyer
Apologies if this has been discussed.
What happened to the motorail rolling stock and where is it now?
Is there any scope in the otrain operating franchises for a motorail
service - would it be part of passenger franchising or would it just be
a freight train?
Are there any detailed statistice on the service - movements, budgets,
revenue, expenses..
Anyone ever planned to rekindle a motorail service? (I see some press
from around 2001 but nothing since).
I just may be dreaming but the ramps are still in place at Inverness and
I would just love to ship my car rather than drive... How hard could it
be to run a freight train I thought on the train back last week.

FGW were at least considering running a Motorail service between paddington
and Penzance as recently as 2006 - the last reference I can find in the NRT
is in the December 2005 - June 2006 edition where a rather blank Table 501
is headed Motorail Services - Summer Service Only. IIRC FGW had some vans
fitted out and repainted for this service, though don't seem to have used
them, perhaps apart from a few trials.
Motorail was dropped from London - Scotland services when the sleeper trains
were reduced from 5 each way per night to 2 - presumably FSR thinks that 6
sleepers, a seating car and a lounge car are needed in each half set
(Inverness, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen/Fort William) in which case train
length considerations at Euston preclude tagging Motorail vans on to the
back of what are 16 coach trains.
With the alternatives of a long distance drive, mainly on motorways or dual
carriageways, or train or low coast airline and hiring a car at teh
destination I doubt that TOCs could make any money out of Motorail at an
affordable price.

Which was why the general Motorail services were discontinued in the 1980s.
Quite simply they were making a loss. Rich Mercedes owners were being
subsidised to have their cars transported!

Peter Fox

(Author of the Motorail report for InterCity twenty-odd years ago)

[Mystery Flyer]

Post by Peter Fox

Post by Mystery Flyer
Apologies if this has been discussed.
What happened to the motorail rolling stock and where is it now?
I just may be dreaming but the ramps are still in place at Inverness and
I would just love to ship my car rather than drive... How hard could it
be to run a freight train I thought on the train back last week.

Which was why the general Motorail services were discontinued in the 1980s.
Quite simply they were making a loss. Rich Mercedes owners were being
subsidised to have their cars transported!
Peter Fox
(Author of the Motorail report for InterCity twenty-odd years ago)

Thank you (all)for replying. Its a really interesting topic to me.

I for one would really really like to read that report. Is it available
to the general public anywhere?

mf

[m***@asda17.fsnet.co.uk]

Post by Peter Masson

Post by Mystery Flyer
Apologies if this has been discussed.
What happened to the motorail rolling stock and where is it now?
Is there any scope in the otrain operating franchises for a motorail
service - would it be part of passenger franchising or would it just be
a freight train?
Are there any detailed statistice on the service - movements, budgets,
revenue, expenses..
Anyone ever planned to rekindle a motorail service? (I see some press
from around 2001 but nothing since).
I just may be dreaming but the ramps are still in place at Inverness and
I would just love to ship my car rather than drive... How hard could it
be to run a freight train I thought on the train back last week.

FGW were at least considering running a Motorail service between paddington
and Penzance as recently as 2006 - the last reference I can find in the NRT
is in the December 2005 - June 2006 edition where a rather blank Table 501
is headed Motorail Services - Summer Service Only. IIRC FGW had some vans
fitted out and repainted for this service, though don't seem to have used
them, perhaps apart from a few trials.
Motorail was dropped from London - Scotland services when the sleeper trains
were reduced from 5 each way per night to 2 - presumably FSR thinks that 6
sleepers, a seating car and a lounge car are needed in each half set
(Inverness, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen/Fort William) in which case train
length considerations at Euston preclude tagging Motorail vans on to the
back of what are 16 coach trains.
With the alternatives of a long distance drive, mainly on motorways or dual
carriageways, or train or low coast airline and hiring a car at teh
destination I doubt that TOCs could make any money out of Motorail at an
affordable price.
Peter- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

FGW did operate a Motorail service between Paddington and Penzance for
few years recently, the refurb. vans were attached to the Night
Rivieria Sleeper trains. AFAIK the vans were poorly used outside of
High Summer months - hence the complete withdrawl of the service 2 or
3 years ago (not sure how well the product was marketed) , not long
before the uproar started over Dft plans to axe the Cornish Sleeper
trains - boy did they misjudge the fuss this would cause !
Did those in charge learn nothing from the outcry over attempted axe
of Fort William Sleeper about 15 ? years ago.

[Chris Johns]

Post by Peter Masson
With the alternatives of a long distance drive, mainly on motorways or dual
carriageways, or train or low coast airline and hiring a car at teh
destination I doubt that TOCs could make any money out of Motorail at an
affordable price.

Didn't you also need to drive right into London to get the car on the
train in the first place, as they were loaded at Paddington - unless you
were already in London, that could be a bit of a pain.

[Mizter T]

Post by Chris Johns

Post by Peter Masson
With the alternatives of a long distance drive, mainly on motorways or dual
carriageways, or train or low coast airline and hiring a car at the
destination I doubt that TOCs could make any money out of Motorail at an
affordable price.

Didn't you also need to drive right into London to get the car on the
train in the first place, as they were loaded at Paddington - unless you
were already in London, that could be a bit of a pain.

There already are 7.5 million people who are in Greater London.

[John B]

Post by Mizter T

Post by Chris Johns

Post by Peter Masson
With the alternatives of a long distance drive, mainly on motorways or dual
carriageways, or train or low coast airline and hiring a car at the
destination I doubt that TOCs could make any money out of Motorail at an
affordable price.

Didn't you also need to drive right into London to get the car on the
train in the first place, as they were loaded at Paddington - unless you
were already in London, that could be a bit of a pain.

There already are 7.5 million people who are in Greater London.

But driving from Blackheath to Paddington is at least as much of a
pain as driving from (say) Reading to Paddington...

For Motorail to work sensibly you'd need to do it at parkway-type
stations, which almost immediately makes it unviable since you either
can't integrate with normal city-to-city routes, or need to stop the
trains for ages at non-termini.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

[Graeme Wall]

Post by John B

Post by Mizter T

Post by Chris Johns

Post by Peter Masson
With the alternatives of a long distance drive, mainly on motorways or dual
carriageways, or train or low coast airline and hiring a car at the
destination I doubt that TOCs could make any money out of Motorail at an
affordable price.

Didn't you also need to drive right into London to get the car on the
train in the first place, as they were loaded at Paddington - unless you
were already in London, that could be a bit of a pain.

There already are 7.5 million people who are in Greater London.

But driving from Blackheath to Paddington is at least as much of a
pain as driving from (say) Reading to Paddington...

More so if anything.

[Mizter T]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by John B

Post by Mizter T

Post by Chris Johns

Post by Peter Masson
With the alternatives of a long distance drive, mainly on motorways or dual
carriageways, or train or low coast airline and hiring a car at the
destination I doubt that TOCs could make any money out of Motorail at an
affordable price.

Didn't you also need to drive right into London to get the car on the
train in the first place, as they were loaded at Paddington - unless you
were already in London, that could be a bit of a pain.

There already are 7.5 million people who are in Greater London.

But driving from Blackheath to Paddington is at least as much of a
pain as driving from (say) Reading to Paddington...

More so if anything.

Nah, it's easy enough, pretty much a straight line all the way there -
though you can make it a bit more complicated if you want, which might
make it a bit quicker. Of course it doesn't have the simplicity of a
motorway, because thankfully there isn't a motorway, it'd be horrible
if there was.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Mizter T

In message

Post by Mizter T

Post by Chris Johns

Post by Peter Masson
With the alternatives of a long distance drive, mainly on
motorways or dual carriageways, or train or low coast airline and
hiring a car at the destination I doubt that TOCs could make any
money out of Motorail at an affordable price.

Didn't you also need to drive right into London to get the car on
the train in the first place, as they were loaded at Paddington -
unless you were already in London, that could be a bit of a pain.

There already are 7.5 million people who are in Greater London.

But driving from Blackheath to Paddington is at least as much of a pain
as driving from (say) Reading to Paddington...

More so if anything.

Nah, it's easy enough, pretty much a straight line all the way there -
though you can make it a bit more complicated if you want, which might
make it a bit quicker. Of course it doesn't have the simplicity of a
motorway, because thankfully there isn't a motorway, it'd be horrible
if there was.

Could be quicker to drive out to the M25 go round to the M40 and back in, at
least you wouldn't be hitting traffic lights every hundred yards or so. It
recently took me an hour to drive from Twickenham (Rugby ground) to Clapham
High Street and that wasn't in the rush hour! Similar distance, 9.8 miles as
opposed to 10.3. I could get from Reading to Paddington in about that time
and that's 4 times the distance.

[Mizter T]

Post by Mizter T

In message

(snip)

Post by Mizter T

But driving from Blackheath to Paddington is at least as much of a pain
as driving from (say) Reading to Paddington...

More so if anything.

Nah, it's easy enough, pretty much a straight line all the way there -
though you can make it a bit more complicated if you want, which might
make it a bit quicker. Of course it doesn't have the simplicity of a
motorway, because thankfully there isn't a motorway, it'd be horrible
if there was.

Could be quicker to drive out to the M25 go round to the M40 and back in, at
least you wouldn't be hitting traffic lights every hundred yards or so. It
recently took me an hour to drive from Twickenham (Rugby ground) to Clapham
High Street and that wasn't in the rush hour! Similar distance, 9.8 miles as
opposed to 10.3. I could get from Reading to Paddington in about that time
and that's 4 times the distance.

I *really* don't think so - the argument that one should head out to
the M25 and do a big circle of London before coming back approach gets
bandied around a lot but its often something of a fallacy - of course
it depends upon the particular journey in question, but in this
particular case (as in a great many others) it just doesn't make
sense.

The direct route from Blackheath to Paddington is through New Cross,
Camberwell, Kennington Oval, Vauxhall then onto the ring road route
via Victoria, Hyde Park Corner and Marble Arch.

The potentially quicker if somewhat more convoluted route is through
the Blackwall tunnel, then either A13 or better Aspen Way, Limehouse
Link and The Highway to the Tower of London, then Lower/Upper Thames
Street, Victoria Embankment, then either Vauxhall and the ring road
route as above to avoid the congestion charge or otherwise cut the
corner off via Northumberland Avenue, Trafalgar Sq., The Mall and then
Hyde Park Corner.

Re Twickenham to Clapham, it's not a journey I'm overly familiar with
but it is just a bit of a pig of a trip, the South Circular often does
anything but circulate around the Mortlake and Putney area in
particular, and ideally is best avoided. So perhaps if you were to do
this trip again I would suggest avoiding it, and instead go along the
A4 Great West Road into town then at Cromwell Rd peel off right into
the Earls Court one-way system to the river, then if you can take a
right onto Battersea Bridge though this turn is prohibited at busy
times otherwise take a right onto Chelsea Bridge.

Actually, it is possible if you're a bit wily to approach Battersea
Bridge head on from Chelsea hence avoiding the prohibited turn
problem, however actually given that traffic can get heavy on
Latchmere Road you may well be better off going over Chelsea Bridge
and then along Queenstown Road - and voila, you're in Clapham.

Anyway, in response to your point that you could drive from Reading to
Paddington in the same time, one response could be - well, so what?!
It's a motorway, of course it's going to be quicker.

To bring this back on topic, if one can take a train rather than drive
then there are trains every 15 minutes from Twickenham to Clapham
Junction, the journey takes between 12 and 15 minutes, and there are
three regular bus routes that will quickly whisk one up to Clapham
proper. Alternatively one could walk it (through the Common) - indeed
one could actually stay on the train to Queenstown Road Battersea and
then walk it up into Clapham, which is a shorter distance than from CJ.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Mizter T

Post by Mizter T

In message

(snip)

Post by Mizter T

But driving from Blackheath to Paddington is at least as much of a pain
as driving from (say) Reading to Paddington...

More so if anything.

Nah, it's easy enough, pretty much a straight line all the way there -
though you can make it a bit more complicated if you want, which might
make it a bit quicker. Of course it doesn't have the simplicity of a
motorway, because thankfully there isn't a motorway, it'd be horrible
if there was.

Could be quicker to drive out to the M25 go round to the M40 and back in,
at least you wouldn't be hitting traffic lights every hundred yards or
so. It recently took me an hour to drive from Twickenham (Rugby ground)
to Clapham High Street and that wasn't in the rush hour! Similar
distance, 9.8 miles as opposed to 10.3. I could get from Reading to
Paddington in about that time and that's 4 times the distance.

I *really* don't think so - the argument that one should head out to
the M25 and do a big circle of London before coming back approach gets
bandied around a lot but its often something of a fallacy - of course
it depends upon the particular journey in question, but in this
particular case (as in a great many others) it just doesn't make
sense.

That's highly debatable, on a number of occasions I've used the out-M25-in
method to get from one part of south London to another and usually get to the
destination before those who took the direct route.

Post by Mizter T
The direct route from Blackheath to Paddington is through New Cross,
Camberwell, Kennington Oval, Vauxhall then onto the ring road route
via Victoria, Hyde Park Corner and Marble Arch.

That's what the sat-nav comes up with, it claims a journey time of 31 minutes
but from bitter experience I double journey times in London.

[snip alternatives]

Post by Mizter T
Anyway, in response to your point that you could drive from Reading to
Paddington in the same time, one response could be - well, so what?!
It's a motorway, of course it's going to be quicker.

Goes back to your comment about it being nearly as difficult travelling from
Blackheath to Paddington as from Reading. I would submit that in terms of
stress to both driver and car the Blackheath scenario would be the worse of
the two.

Post by Mizter T
To bring this back on topic, if one can take a train rather than drive
then there are trains every 15 minutes from Twickenham to Clapham
Junction, the journey takes between 12 and 15 minutes, and there are
three regular bus routes that will quickly whisk one up to Clapham
proper. Alternatively one could walk it (through the Common) - indeed
one could actually stay on the train to Queenstown Road Battersea and
then walk it up into Clapham, which is a shorter distance than from CJ.

Somewhat irrelevant when we are discussing motorail access. I merely used
the Twickers-Clapham journey as a real world example of driving a similar
distance in London to the one you were talking about which I haven't done.

[Mizter T]

(snip talk of a Blackheath to Paddington journey by *road*)

Post by Mizter T

Post by Graeme Wall
Could be quicker to drive out to the M25 go round to the M40 and back in,
at least you wouldn't be hitting traffic lights every hundred yards or
so. It recently took me an hour to drive from Twickenham (Rugby ground)
to Clapham High Street and that wasn't in the rush hour! Similar
distance, 9.8 miles as opposed to 10.3. I could get from Reading to
Paddington in about that time and that's 4 times the distance.

I *really* don't think so - the argument that one should head out to
the M25 and do a big circle of London before coming back approach gets
bandied around a lot but its often something of a fallacy - of course
it depends upon the particular journey in question, but in this
particular case (as in a great many others) it just doesn't make
sense.

That's highly debatable, on a number of occasions I've used the out-M25-in
method to get from one part of south London to another and usually get to the
destination before those who took the direct route.

I'd be genuinely interested to hear what some of them were - I'm not
professing to be an oracle on such matters, far from it, but on
several occasions I have had to dissuade people from making some
fairly ludicrous excursions around the M25.

Dare I also suggest that in some instances in south London in
particular it's a case of local knowledge - i.e. perhaps those whom
you beat who took the direct route didn't take the wisest cross-town
route. Of course that's of little help to those without such
knowledge, and AFAICS sat-nav systems don't generally know such things
either.

Post by Mizter T
The direct route from Blackheath to Paddington is through New Cross,
Camberwell, Kennington Oval, Vauxhall then onto the ring road route
via Victoria, Hyde Park Corner and Marble Arch.

That's what the sat-nav comes up with, it claims a journey time of 31 minutes
but from bitter experience I double journey times in London.

That's wise, though it does of course vary significantly depending
upon what time of the day it.

Nonetheless I would eat my hat if a Blackheath to Paddington journey
was quicker by doing half a circumference of the London Orbital than
just by taking the head-on route.

[snip alternatives]

Post by Mizter T
Anyway, in response to your point that you could drive from Reading to
Paddington in the same time, one response could be - well, so what?!
It's a motorway, of course it's going to be quicker.

Goes back to your comment about it being nearly as difficult travelling from
Blackheath to Paddington as from Reading. I would submit that in terms of
stress to both driver and car the Blackheath scenario would be the worse of
the two.

T'was John Band's comment, not mine!

I have hardly any experience of driving to or from Reading so I can't
really speak about that journey - but yes, I can see it is
straightforward.

I am however quite familiar with journeys such as Blackheath to
Paddington, and I'd say that as long as one could avoid the midst of
the rush hour it wouldn't be that difficult. Of course if one was
familiar with the route that would be advantageous. Also I suppose
that Blackheath/ London resident drivers might be less phased by the
style of driving required - though ultimately I don't think that it's
some secret skill, it's just normal, attentive town driving.

Post by Mizter T
To bring this back on topic, if one can take a train rather than drive
then there are trains every 15 minutes from Twickenham to Clapham
Junction, the journey takes between 12 and 15 minutes, and there are
three regular bus routes that will quickly whisk one up to Clapham
proper. Alternatively one could walk it (through the Common) - indeed
one could actually stay on the train to Queenstown Road Battersea and
then walk it up into Clapham, which is a shorter distance than from CJ.

Somewhat irrelevant when we are discussing motorail access. I merely used
the Twickers-Clapham journey as a real world example of driving a similar
distance in London to the one you were talking about which I haven't done.

OK, yes it is quite irrelevant to motorail!

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Mizter T

(snip talk of a Blackheath to Paddington journey by *road*)

Post by Mizter T

Post by Graeme Wall
Could be quicker to drive out to the M25 go round to the M40 and back in,
at least you wouldn't be hitting traffic lights every hundred yards or
so. It recently took me an hour to drive from Twickenham (Rugby ground)
to Clapham High Street and that wasn't in the rush hour! Similar
distance, 9.8 miles as opposed to 10.3. I could get from Reading to
Paddington in about that time and that's 4 times the distance.

I *really* don't think so - the argument that one should head out to
the M25 and do a big circle of London before coming back approach gets
bandied around a lot but its often something of a fallacy - of course
it depends upon the particular journey in question, but in this
particular case (as in a great many others) it just doesn't make
sense.

That's highly debatable, on a number of occasions I've used the out-M25-in
method to get from one part of south London to another and usually get to the
destination before those who took the direct route.

I'd be genuinely interested to hear what some of them were - I'm not
professing to be an oracle on such matters, far from it, but on
several occasions I have had to dissuade people from making some
fairly ludicrous excursions around the M25.

It does have to involve going a fair distance round, eg
Blackheath-Paddington, obviously if both ends were in the same small area it
would be a nonsense.

Post by Mizter T
Dare I also suggest that in some instances in south London in
particular it's a case of local knowledge - i.e. perhaps those whom
you beat who took the direct route didn't take the wisest cross-town
route.

That is a given.

Post by Mizter T
Of course that's of little help to those without such knowledge, and AFAICS
sat-nav systems don't generally know such things either.

Sat Navs work up to a point but local knowledge can often trump the algorithm
in places like South London.

Post by Mizter T

Post by Mizter T
The direct route from Blackheath to Paddington is through New Cross,
Camberwell, Kennington Oval, Vauxhall then onto the ring road route via
Victoria, Hyde Park Corner and Marble Arch.

That's what the sat-nav comes up with, it claims a journey time of 31
minutes but from bitter experience I double journey times in London.

That's wise, though it does of course vary significantly depending upon
what time of the day it.

Off peak weekdays

Post by Mizter T
Nonetheless I would eat my hat if a Blackheath to Paddington journey was
quicker by doing half a circumference of the London Orbital than just by
taking the head-on route.

With salt and vinegar :-)

Post by Mizter T

[snip alternatives]

Post by Mizter T
Anyway, in response to your point that you could drive from Reading to
Paddington in the same time, one response could be - well, so what?!
It's a motorway, of course it's going to be quicker.

Goes back to your comment about it being nearly as difficult travelling
from Blackheath to Paddington as from Reading. I would submit that in
terms of stress to both driver and car the Blackheath scenario would be
the worse of the two.

T'was John Band's comment, not mine!

Beg pardon, anyway that's what I was referring to.

Post by Mizter T
I have hardly any experience of driving to or from Reading so I can't
really speak about that journey - but yes, I can see it is
straightforward.

Many years ago I did it regularly, well as far as Shepherds Bush anyway.

Post by Mizter T
I am however quite familiar with journeys such as Blackheath to
Paddington, and I'd say that as long as one could avoid the midst of
the rush hour it wouldn't be that difficult. Of course if one was
familiar with the route that would be advantageous. Also I suppose
that Blackheath/ London resident drivers might be less phased by the
style of driving required - though ultimately I don't think that it's
some secret skill, it's just normal, attentive town driving.

It's rather different to driving in, for example, Reading. I'm out of
practice now, haven't driven regularly in London since the late 70s and its a
lot worse now,

Post by Mizter T

Post by Mizter T
To bring this back on topic, if one can take a train rather than drive
then there are trains every 15 minutes from Twickenham to Clapham
Junction, the journey takes between 12 and 15 minutes, and there are
three regular bus routes that will quickly whisk one up to Clapham
proper. Alternatively one could walk it (through the Common) - indeed
one could actually stay on the train to Queenstown Road Battersea and
then walk it up into Clapham, which is a shorter distance than from CJ.

Somewhat irrelevant when we are discussing motorail access. I merely
used the Twickers-Clapham journey as a real world example of driving a
similar distance in London to the one you were talking about which I
haven't done.

OK, yes it is quite irrelevant to motorail!

:=)

[unknown]

...on a number of occasions I've used the out-M25-in
method to get from one part of south London to another and
usually get to the
destination before those who took the direct route.

I'd be genuinely interested to hear what some of them were ...

Teddington to Royal Arsenal, via South Circular Road - 22 miles,
3 hours.
Royal Arsenal to Teddington via A2, M25: 68 miles, 1 hour.

[Peter Masson]

Post by John B
For Motorail to work sensibly you'd need to do it at parkway-type
stations, which almost immediately makes it unviable since you either
can't integrate with normal city-to-city routes, or need to stop the
trains for ages at non-termini.

In the late 1960s some of the Kensington - St Austell and Fishguard
Motorails (which were dedicated Motorail trains) called at Reading to take
up westbound or set down eastbound. The pilot shunted a couple of carflats,
which had been preloaded, or would be unloaded shortly afterwards, on to or
off the back of the train, which called for 8 - 11 minutes, and only b4
mintes in the case of one set down movement.

Before the A9 over Drumochter and Slochd was improved there was for a few
years a Stirling to Inverness Motorail, which was actually run by adding
carflats to a Glasgow - Inverness train. On occasions when I travelled on
this train the attachment took just over 4 minutes, and the detachment about
3.5 minutes. On at least one occasion one of the experimental Lounge Cars
(FKs in which 4 compartments had been converted into two 10-seater lounges)
wasc formed in this train.

Peter

[Peter Fox]

Post by Chris Johns

Post by Peter Masson
With the alternatives of a long distance drive, mainly on motorways or dual
carriageways, or train or low coast airline and hiring a car at teh
destination I doubt that TOCs could make any money out of Motorail at an
affordable price.

Didn't you also need to drive right into London to get the car on the
train in the first place, as they were loaded at Paddington - unless you
were already in London, that could be a bit of a pain.
--
Chris Johns

The main Motorail terminal was Kensington Olympia.

Peter Fox

[John B]

Post by Peter Fox

Post by Chris Johns
Didn't you also need to drive right into London to get the car on the
train in the first place, as they were loaded at Paddington - unless you
were already in London, that could be a bit of a pain.

The main Motorail terminal was Kensington Olympia.

Wasn't it KO for Scotland and Paddington for the West Country?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

[Peter Masson]

Post by John B

Post by Peter Fox

Post by Chris Johns
Didn't you also need to drive right into London to get the car on the
train in the first place, as they were loaded at Paddington - unless you
were already in London, that could be a bit of a pain.

The main Motorail terminal was Kensington Olympia.

Wasn't it KO for Scotland and Paddington for the West Country?

When the WR ran dedicated Motorail trains they ran from Kensington Olympia
to St Austell (with set down at Totnes, driving off the side of the carflat
on to the platform) and to Fishguard (Fishguard & Goodwick station).
Paddington was used for a couple of Vans (or carflats?) on the rear of a
sleeper train. The other London terminus for dedicated Motorail trains,
before Kensington Olympia was developed was the 'Holloway Road Car Loading
Bay' which was used for daytime trains to Newcastle and Edinburgh, and car
sleepers to Perth.

Peter
(old enough to have travelled on Motorail trains from holloway Road to
edinburgh, and from Kensington Olympia to Fishguard)

[Mizter T]

(snip)

Post by John B

Post by Peter Fox
The main Motorail terminal was Kensington Olympia.

Wasn't it KO for Scotland and Paddington for the West Country?

When the WR ran dedicated Motorail trains they ran from Kensington Olympia
to St Austell (with set down at Totnes, driving off the side of the carflat
on to the platform) and to Fishguard (Fishguard & Goodwick station).
Paddington was used for a couple of Vans (or carflats?) on the rear of a
sleeper train. The other London terminus for dedicated Motorail trains,
before Kensington Olympia was developed was the 'Holloway Road Car Loading
Bay' which was used for daytime trains to Newcastle and Edinburgh, and car
sleepers to Perth.
Peter
(old enough to have travelled on Motorail trains from holloway Road to
edinburgh, and from Kensington Olympia to Fishguard)

The Holloway Road Car Loading Bay, well that's a completely new one on
me! Was that part of a depot or goods yard, and which side of Holloway
Road was it (north-east or south-west)?

Thanks as ever for sharing your knowledge and reminiscences, they're
informative, entertaining, and occasionally surprising to boot!

[Peter Masson]

Post by Mizter T
The Holloway Road Car Loading Bay, well that's a completely new one on
me! Was that part of a depot or goods yard, and which side of Holloway
Road was it (north-east or south-west)?

It was on the up side of the ECML and the north-east side of Holloway Road.
I think it had originally been a cattle dock. There was an island platform,
with one track arranged for end-loading cars into the vans, and passengers
boarded the other side. On departure one rake was shunted on to the other,
then the train departed. The day train as formed with 22FK, a Restaurant
Car, and a BSO plus about 8 vans. The vans were double decker, with a
hydraulic lift to access the lower deck in the well between the bogies..
Some time later there was an accident involving a member of rail staff,
after which the lower decks weren't used any more.

Peter

[Stimpy]

Post by Peter Masson

Post by Mizter T
The Holloway Road Car Loading Bay, well that's a completely new one on
me! Was that part of a depot or goods yard, and which side of Holloway
Road was it (north-east or south-west)?

It was on the up side of the ECML and the north-east side of Holloway Road.
I think it had originally been a cattle dock. There was an island platform,
with one track arranged for end-loading cars into the vans, and passengers
boarded the other side. On departure one rake was shunted on to the other,
then the train departed. The day train as formed with 22FK, a Restaurant
Car, and a BSO plus about 8 vans.

22FKs?? That seems a bit over-lengthy :-)

[Peter Masson]

Post by Stimpy

Post by Peter Masson

Post by Mizter T
The Holloway Road Car Loading Bay, well that's a completely new one on
me! Was that part of a depot or goods yard, and which side of Holloway
Road was it (north-east or south-west)?

It was on the up side of the ECML and the north-east side of Holloway Road.
I think it had originally been a cattle dock. There was an island platform,
with one track arranged for end-loading cars into the vans, and passengers
boarded the other side. On departure one rake was shunted on to the other,
then the train departed. The day train as formed with 22FK, a Restaurant
Car, and a BSO plus about 8 vans.

22FKs?? That seems a bit over-lengthy :-)

That should be 2FK. Keyboard misbehaving (that's my excuse).

Peter

[Clive D. W. Feather]

Post by Peter Masson

Post by Mizter T
The Holloway Road Car Loading Bay, well that's a completely new one on
me! Was that part of a depot or goods yard, and which side of Holloway
Road was it (north-east or south-west)?

It was on the up side of the ECML and the north-east side of Holloway Road.
I think it had originally been a cattle dock. There was an island platform,
with one track arranged for end-loading cars into the vans, and passengers
boarded the other side.

Found it on my signalling diagrams of the area. As you say, there was an
island platform, though more V shaped. The passenger side was on the Up
Coal north of the flyover from east to west sides, with a scissors
crossover at the south end - the next track out was the Up Goods and
south of the scissors the Up Coal became the Up Goods and the erstwhile
Up Goods merged into the Up Slow at spring points. To use the full
length of the platform trains extend south of the signals protecting the
crossover and over the crossover itself. The Car Loading Dock was the
east side of the platform, running to a dead end, and was longer than
the passenger side. Holloway South Up signal box was on the platform
near the north end, with the lever frame on the west side (passenger
platform side) of the box.

Access from the north was controlled by a single arm on a doll bracketed
out to the right; underneath it a box showed "C" (lever 31) for the Up
Coal or "S" (lever 39) for the Car Platform. Departure from the latter
was controlled by signal 35 or calling-off disc 34 beneath it, while
from the passenger side it was ground disc 36. The two tracks merged via
points 37; the same lever also worked trap points immediately north of
disc 36.

A departing service would work in the down direction over the Up Coal to
Holloway North Up signal 37, over crossover 17 to the Up Goods, then on
to a massive ladder crossover over the entire ECML. This started at the
Up Goods, crossed the Up Slow, Up Fast, Down Fast, Down Slow 1, Down
Slow 2, and ended up at the High Level Carriage Siding. At each diamond
crossing there was a single slip in the trailing direction for the
running lines. The whole thing was worked by Holloway North Up box, but
the three slips on the Down lines and the points trailing into the HLCS
were all released by Holloway North Down box. [The up-facing shunt
signals on the first three down lines were also worked by Up box.]

This layout had all changed at some point. In 1953 the car siding was
instead a cattle dock and the "electric light sidings", with a different
layout, and the big ladder could only be used for moves from the down
side to the up side.

[Batman55]

Post by Clive D. W. Feather

Post by Peter Masson

Post by Mizter T
The Holloway Road Car Loading Bay, well that's a completely new one on
me! Was that part of a depot or goods yard, and which side of Holloway
Road was it (north-east or south-west)?

It was on the up side of the ECML and the north-east side of Holloway Road.
I think it had originally been a cattle dock. There was an island platform,
with one track arranged for end-loading cars into the vans, and passengers
boarded the other side.

Found it on my signalling diagrams of the area. As you say, there was an
island platform, though more V shaped. The passenger side was on the Up
Coal north of the flyover from east to west sides, with a scissors
crossover at the south end - the next track out was the Up Goods and south
of the scissors the Up Coal became the Up Goods and the erstwhile Up Goods
merged into the Up Slow at spring points. To use the full length of the
platform trains extend south of the signals protecting the crossover and
over the crossover itself. The Car Loading Dock was the east side of the
platform, running to a dead end, and was longer than the passenger side.
Holloway South Up signal box was on the platform near the north end, with
the lever frame on the west side (passenger platform side) of the box.
Access from the north was controlled by a single arm on a doll bracketed
out to the right; underneath it a box showed "C" (lever 31) for the Up
Coal or "S" (lever 39) for the Car Platform. Departure from the latter was
controlled by signal 35 or calling-off disc 34 beneath it, while from the
passenger side it was ground disc 36. The two tracks merged via points 37;
the same lever also worked trap points immediately north of disc 36.
A departing service would work in the down direction over the Up Coal to
Holloway North Up signal 37, over crossover 17 to the Up Goods, then on to
a massive ladder crossover over the entire ECML. This started at the Up
Goods, crossed the Up Slow, Up Fast, Down Fast, Down Slow 1, Down Slow 2,
and ended up at the High Level Carriage Siding. At each diamond crossing
there was a single slip in the trailing direction for the running lines.
The whole thing was worked by Holloway North Up box, but the three slips
on the Down lines and the points trailing into the HLCS were all released
by Holloway North Down box. [The up-facing shunt signals on the first
three down lines were also worked by Up box.]
This layout had all changed at some point. In 1953 the car siding was
instead a cattle dock and the "electric light sidings", with a different
layout, and the big ladder could only be used for moves from the down side
to the up side.
--
Tel: [phone] (work) | Web: <http://www.davros.org>

I remember using this site for a Motorail service to Perth in 1966. In those
days it used covered coaches with improvised gangways for the cars. At Perth
we had to wait for our vehicles to be driven off by staff and had a good
laugh when there was a sudden clang inside and a Mini drove off with a
railman following behind with its exhaust pipe. However, we stopped laughing
10 miles out of town as our car putted to a halt and we had to call for
help. It transpired the journey had shaken a wire loose somewhere.

Sadly (and unusually) I took no pictures of the site at the time. I think
that may have been its last summer of use.

MaxB

[A.C.P.Crawshaw]

Post by Mystery Flyer
I just may be dreaming but the ramps are still in place at Inverness and
I would just love to ship my car rather than drive... How hard could it
be to run a freight train I thought on the train back last week.

If you want to ship your car you'll need the ferry ;)

Alan

[R.C. Payne]

Post by Mystery Flyer
Apologies if this has been discussed.
What happened to the motorail rolling stock and where is it now?
Is there any scope in the otrain operating franchises for a motorail
service - would it be part of passenger franchising or would it just be
a freight train?
Are there any detailed statistice on the service - movements, budgets,
revenue, expenses..
Anyone ever planned to rekindle a motorail service? (I see some press
from around 2001 but nothing since).
I just may be dreaming but the ramps are still in place at Inverness and
I would just love to ship my car rather than drive... How hard could it
be to run a freight train I thought on the train back last week.

On a slight tangent, I wonder whether there would be a business case for
something like a motorail sleeper from Ebbsfleet (or perhaps Stratford,
though Ebbsfleet probably has beeter access to the motorway network) to
the south of France. It would have the benefit of being a UIC-whatever
loading gauge route all the way. I wonder what would be involved in
making some modern European sleeper stock tunnel-proof.

Robin

[Mizter T]

Post by R.C. Payne
On a slight tangent, I wonder whether there would be a business case for
something like a motorail sleeper from Ebbsfleet (or perhaps Stratford,
though Ebbsfleet probably has better access to the motorway network) to
the south of France. It would have the benefit of being a UIC-whatever
loading gauge route all the way. I wonder what would be involved in
making some modern European sleeper stock tunnel-proof.

Not the first time such a thing has been mooted that's for sure.

A rather critical issue is that Ebbsfleet wasn't even remotely
designed with such a thing in mind (and Stratford Int'l is in a box so
is pretty much a no go).

Thinking outside the box, one possibility I suppose could be some sort
of motorail terminal in Dagenham near the Ripple Road freight
connection onto the CTRL/HS1.

[R.C. Payne]

Post by Mizter T

Post by R.C. Payne
On a slight tangent, I wonder whether there would be a business case for
something like a motorail sleeper from Ebbsfleet (or perhaps Stratford,
though Ebbsfleet probably has better access to the motorway network) to
the south of France. It would have the benefit of being a UIC-whatever
loading gauge route all the way. I wonder what would be involved in
making some modern European sleeper stock tunnel-proof.

Not the first time such a thing has been mooted that's for sure.
A rather critical issue is that Ebbsfleet wasn't even remotely
designed with such a thing in mind (and Stratford Int'l is in a box so
is pretty much a no go).
Thinking outside the box, one possibility I suppose could be some sort
of motorail terminal in Dagenham near the Ripple Road freight
connection onto the CTRL/HS1.

Or possbily something to connect in with the Singlewell sidings? Right
next to a junction on the A2 after all...

Robin

[Paul Harley]

Post by Mystery Flyer
What happened to the motorail rolling stock and where is it now?

There were a couple of carflats slowly rusting away in sidings south
of Basingstoke station. Can anyone advise if they're still there?

Paul Harley

[Charlie Hulme]

Post by Paul Harley

Post by Mystery Flyer
What happened to the motorail rolling stock and where is it now?

There were a couple of carflats slowly rusting away in sidings south
of Basingstoke station. Can anyone advise if they're still there?

One bogie GUV branded 'Motorail' ended up as (I think) some kind of
barrier or reach vehicle for the wheel lathe installation at Manchester
Longsight.

Charlie

[BH Williams]

Post by Paul Harley

Post by Mystery Flyer
What happened to the motorail rolling stock and where is it now?

There were a couple of carflats slowly rusting away in sidings south
of Basingstoke station. Can anyone advise if they're still there?
Paul Harley

I think they were the vehicles which, cut in half and stacked upon one
another, I passed on the M3 a couple of years ago. The only surviving
Carflat that I know of in revenue service in recent years is a single
example with STVA (formerly MAT), which has been rebogied with Y25 freight
bogies. Their sucessors the Cartic-4s, which older readers will remember
John Noakes demonstrating on Blue Peter four decades ago, have also gone,
apart from a couple of examples that have had their top decks removed.
Brian

[Mystery Flyer]

Post by Mystery Flyer
What happened to the motorail rolling stock and where is it now?

Answering my own post I know but I found them via another thread about
new trains at Long Marston.

Loading Image...

I'd love to bring them back to service...

mf

[Peter Fox]

Post by Mystery Flyer
What happened to the motorail rolling stock and where is it now?

Answering my own post I know but I found them via another thread about new
trains at Long Marston.
http://petertandy.co.uk/motorail-vans_LM_open-day_0.jpg
I'd love to bring them back to service...

Why? Motorail always loses money in this country due to the near
impossibility of using double-deck transporters for cars which vary in
height. The cost of running trains of single-deck transporters is too high
because the limited number of cars transported does not pay for the traction
cost. Also using converted GUVs means that you are carrying 4 tons of load
in a 30 ton vehicle!The original Motorail network was dsicontinued because
it made a loss and was impossible to make profitable. Taxpayers were
subsidising rich people to take cars to Scotland!

Peter Fox

(Author of IC Strategy study Motorail report).

[John B]

Post by Peter Fox
The original Motorail network was dsicontinued because
it made a loss and was impossible to make profitable. Taxpayers were
subsidising rich people to take cars to Scotland!

...whereas now they just subsidise rich people to take beds to
Scotland, and rich people to eat nice dinners on the way to Scotland.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

[Tony Polson]

Post by Peter Fox
Motorail always loses money in this country due to the near
impossibility of using double-deck transporters for cars which vary in
height.

Even if the cars were all the same low height (i.e. all standard
saloons, hatchbacks or estate cars, with no MPVs or SUVs) it would be
impracticable to carry them in enclosed double deck transporters
within the loading gauge.

[BH Williams]

Post by Tony Polson

Post by Peter Fox
Motorail always loses money in this country due to the near
impossibility of using double-deck transporters for cars which vary in
height.

Even if the cars were all the same low height (i.e. all standard
saloons, hatchbacks or estate cars, with no MPVs or SUVs) it would be
impracticable to carry them in enclosed double deck transporters
within the loading gauge.

Such vehicles do exist, Tony- the 5-unit articulated vehicles (TOPS code
WIA) built for Railfreight Distribution prior to the opening of the Channel
Tunnel. The body shell is lifted by a system of jacks during loading and
unloading, to give extra clearance at the ends of the vehicles.
The problem now is that so many people either have a 'granny box' on the
roof, or drive the various 'monospace' vehicles like Picassos and Scenics.
These latter are too high for double deck carriers even on the continent, as
we found when trying to book a space on a motorail from Florence to Belgium.
Brian

[Tony Polson]

Post by BH Williams

Post by Tony Polson

Post by Peter Fox
Motorail always loses money in this country due to the near
impossibility of using double-deck transporters for cars which vary in
height.

Even if the cars were all the same low height (i.e. all standard
saloons, hatchbacks or estate cars, with no MPVs or SUVs) it would be
impracticable to carry them in enclosed double deck transporters
within the loading gauge.

Such vehicles do exist, Tony- the 5-unit articulated vehicles (TOPS code
WIA) built for Railfreight Distribution prior to the opening of the Channel
Tunnel. The body shell is lifted by a system of jacks during loading and
unloading, to give extra clearance at the ends of the vehicles.

I was aware of those vehicles, Brian. They may be suitable for
delivering new cars between factories and distribution depots, but
surely they would not be suitable for Motorail passengers' private
cars? I cannot imagine anyone being happy with rail workers loading
and unloading their car, as passengers would have to be prohibited
from doing it on safety grounds.

Post by BH Williams
The problem now is that so many people either have a 'granny box' on the
roof, or drive the various 'monospace' vehicles like Picassos and Scenics.
These latter are too high for double deck carriers even on the continent, as
we found when trying to book a space on a motorail from Florence to Belgium.

Interesting. Do these vehicles fit the double-deck Shuttle vehicles?

[Peter Fox]

Post by Tony Polson

Post by BH Williams

Post by Tony Polson

Post by Peter Fox
Motorail always loses money in this country due to the near
impossibility of using double-deck transporters for cars which vary in
height.

Even if the cars were all the same low height (i.e. all standard
saloons, hatchbacks or estate cars, with no MPVs or SUVs) it would be
impracticable to carry them in enclosed double deck transporters
within the loading gauge.

Such vehicles do exist, Tony- the 5-unit articulated vehicles (TOPS code
WIA) built for Railfreight Distribution prior to the opening of the Channel
Tunnel. The body shell is lifted by a system of jacks during loading and
unloading, to give extra clearance at the ends of the vehicles.

I was aware of those vehicles, Brian. They may be suitable for
delivering new cars between factories and distribution depots, but
surely they would not be suitable for Motorail passengers' private
cars? I cannot imagine anyone being happy with rail workers loading
and unloading their car, as passengers would have to be prohibited
from doing it on safety grounds.

Rail workers do drive cars on and off on French Motorail. We once used it
from Calais to Narbonne. At Narbonne, staff drove the cars off the wagons
and left the keys in. When we were told that we could collect our cars, we
found someone in the driving seat of our car! He insisted that it was his. I
asked him what the registration number of his car was, but he couldn't
remember. Eventually I persuaded the old fool that if he looked in the boot
he wouldn't see his luggage and he admitted that he had got the wrong car!
Its a good job we got to it before he had driven off!

Peter Fox

[Tony Polson]

Post by Peter Fox

Post by Tony Polson
I was aware of those vehicles, Brian. They may be suitable for
delivering new cars between factories and distribution depots, but
surely they would not be suitable for Motorail passengers' private
cars? I cannot imagine anyone being happy with rail workers loading
and unloading their car, as passengers would have to be prohibited
from doing it on safety grounds.

Rail workers do drive cars on and off on French Motorail. We once used it
from Calais to Narbonne. At Narbonne, staff drove the cars off the wagons
and left the keys in. When we were told that we could collect our cars, we
found someone in the driving seat of our car! He insisted that it was his. I
asked him what the registration number of his car was, but he couldn't
remember. Eventually I persuaded the old fool that if he looked in the boot
he wouldn't see his luggage and he admitted that he had got the wrong car!
Its a good job we got to it before he had driven off!

Well, there's another reason for not wanting rail workers to drive the
cars on and off ... not one that I would have thought of, either!

[Peter Masson]

Post by Tony Polson

Post by BH Williams
Such vehicles do exist, Tony- the 5-unit articulated vehicles (TOPS code
WIA) built for Railfreight Distribution prior to the opening of the Channel
Tunnel. The body shell is lifted by a system of jacks during loading and
unloading, to give extra clearance at the ends of the vehicles.

I was aware of those vehicles, Brian. They may be suitable for
delivering new cars between factories and distribution depots, but
surely they would not be suitable for Motorail passengers' private
cars? I cannot imagine anyone being happy with rail workers loading
and unloading their car, as passengers would have to be prohibited
from doing it on safety grounds.

The Holloway Road - Newcastle/Edinburgh/Perth Motorail used double decker
vans, with the lower deck, between the bogies, accessed by a hydraulic lift.
Cars were driven on and off by rail staff.

Peter

[Tony Polson]

Post by BH Williams

Post by Tony Polson

Post by BH Williams
Such vehicles do exist, Tony- the 5-unit articulated vehicles (TOPS code
WIA) built for Railfreight Distribution prior to the opening of the

Channel

Post by Tony Polson

Post by BH Williams
Tunnel. The body shell is lifted by a system of jacks during loading and
unloading, to give extra clearance at the ends of the vehicles.

I was aware of those vehicles, Brian. They may be suitable for
delivering new cars between factories and distribution depots, but
surely they would not be suitable for Motorail passengers' private
cars? I cannot imagine anyone being happy with rail workers loading
and unloading their car, as passengers would have to be prohibited
from doing it on safety grounds.

The Holloway Road - Newcastle/Edinburgh/Perth Motorail used double decker
vans, with the lower deck, between the bogies, accessed by a hydraulic lift.
Cars were driven on and off by rail staff.

I suspect the days have long gone when most people would trust rail
staff to drive their cars on and off. I have had too much trouble
with valet parking ever to hand over my keys to anyone.

[BH Williams]

Post by Tony Polson

Post by BH Williams

Post by Tony Polson

Post by Peter Fox
Motorail always loses money in this country due to the near
impossibility of using double-deck transporters for cars which vary in
height.

Even if the cars were all the same low height (i.e. all standard
saloons, hatchbacks or estate cars, with no MPVs or SUVs) it would be
impracticable to carry them in enclosed double deck transporters
within the loading gauge.

Such vehicles do exist, Tony- the 5-unit articulated vehicles (TOPS code
WIA) built for Railfreight Distribution prior to the opening of the Channel
Tunnel. The body shell is lifted by a system of jacks during loading and
unloading, to give extra clearance at the ends of the vehicles.

I was aware of those vehicles, Brian. They may be suitable for
delivering new cars between factories and distribution depots, but
surely they would not be suitable for Motorail passengers' private
cars? I cannot imagine anyone being happy with rail workers loading
and unloading their car, as passengers would have to be prohibited
from doing it on safety grounds.

Post by BH Williams
The problem now is that so many people either have a 'granny box' on the
roof, or drive the various 'monospace' vehicles like Picassos and Scenics.
These latter are too high for double deck carriers even on the continent, as
we found when trying to book a space on a motorail from Florence to Belgium.

Interesting. Do these vehicles fit the double-deck Shuttle vehicles?

Mine does! The maximum height restriction we were quoted on SNCB's web-site
was 1.69 m, whilst the Picasso comes in at 1.70. (I believe the maximum
height permitted on DD carriers with Eurotunnel is 1.84m, but don't quote
me...)
I don't think motorists have loaded their own cars on car-carriers for some
time, 'jockeys' being employed instead- certainly this has been the case on
the remaining SNCF services.
There have been attempts in France to run a Motorail service where the car
and its occupants travel seperately. The results were not highly successful-
in one case where two portions were combined for a large part of their
journey, the Narbonne section ended up in Nice, and that for Nice in
Narbonne....
The only services left in France now are from Calais, and I believ can only
be booked via Rail Europe. No one seems to have come up with an economic
case for cars on trains where there is not some physical barrier (such as
the Alps or the Channel), and some would debate whether even these are
justified...
Brian

[Peter Masson]

Post by BH Williams
No one seems to have come up with an economic
case for cars on trains where there is not some physical barrier (such as
the Alps or the Channel), and some would debate whether even these are
justified...

Perhaps rail distances in Europe are too short. Here's a railway which seems
keen to encourage Motorail:
http://www.gsr.com.au/our-trains/the-ghan/taking-your-car.php

Peter

[Tony Polson]

Post by BH Williams

Post by Tony Polson
Interesting. Do these vehicles fit the double-deck Shuttle vehicles?

Mine does! The maximum height restriction we were quoted on SNCB's web-site
was 1.69 m, whilst the Picasso comes in at 1.70. (I believe the maximum
height permitted on DD carriers with Eurotunnel is 1.84m, but don't quote
me...)
I don't think motorists have loaded their own cars on car-carriers for some
time, 'jockeys' being employed instead- certainly this has been the case on
the remaining SNCF services.
There have been attempts in France to run a Motorail service where the car
and its occupants travel seperately. The results were not highly successful-
in one case where two portions were combined for a large part of their
journey, the Narbonne section ended up in Nice, and that for Nice in
Narbonne....

It could only be a matter of time before that happened. Perhaps the
staff involved later went to work at Heathrow's Terminal 5. ;-)

Post by BH Williams
The only services left in France now are from Calais, and I believ can only
be booked via Rail Europe. No one seems to have come up with an economic
case for cars on trains where there is not some physical barrier (such as
the Alps or the Channel), and some would debate whether even these are
justified...

The rolling motorways through the Swiss Alps are certainly justified,
because road tunnels would otherwise have had to be built. But
elsewhere ... ? Perhaps not. These are mainly political decisions,
though, and the rules of economic analysis may therefore not apply.