Discussion:
Murder at Oxenholme
(too old to reply)
AW
2006-05-27 13:13:21 UTC
Permalink
There has apparently been a fatal stabbing on a southbound Voyager in
the Penrith/Oxenholme area. Police attending at Oxenholme.

<http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_bulletins/today.html>

Only a strapline on the BBC news site at the time of writing.

AW
Phil
2006-05-27 13:21:18 UTC
Permalink
There has apparently been a fatal stabbing on a southbound Voyager in the
Penrith/Oxenholme area. Police attending at Oxenholme.
<http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_bulletins/today.html>
Only a strapline on the BBC news site at the time of writing.
AW
Glasgow to Paignton service according to Sky News.

Phil
AW
2006-05-27 13:27:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil
Glasgow to Paignton service according to Sky News.
The Beeb has a little more now...
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5023422.stm>.

Beginning to look like the culprit has escaped the scene.

AW
Neil Sunderland
2006-05-27 14:47:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by AW
The Beeb has a little more now...
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5023422.stm>.
Beginning to look like the culprit has escaped the scene.
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/5023422.stm>

Says the police have arrested someone.


Neil Sunderland
--
Braunton, Devon
Please observe the Reply-To address.

NP: Supergrass - Caught by the Fuzz (from the album 'I Should Coco')
Roland Perry
2006-05-27 14:01:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by AW
There has apparently been a fatal stabbing on a southbound Voyager in
the Penrith/Oxenholme area. Police attending at Oxenholme.
<http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_bulletins/today.html>
"Police dealing with a problem"

At what point does it become an "incident"??

Two hour delays currently being predicted :(

Also interesting how stabbings are now headline news up and down the
country, could this be because of the knife amnesty? I don't believe
there are more stabbings suddenly happening, just that the news media
are picking up the details.
--
Roland Perry
Charlie Hulme
2006-05-27 14:16:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Also interesting how stabbings are now headline news up and down the
country, could this be because of the knife amnesty? I don't believe
there are more stabbings suddenly happening, just that the news media
are picking up the details.
Polishing your rose-tinted spectacles, maybe. Of course there are more
stabbings happening.

When was the last murder on a train? Not a common event, for sure.

Charlie
Graeme Wall
2006-05-27 14:27:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Hulme
Post by Roland Perry
Also interesting how stabbings are now headline news up and down the
country, could this be because of the knife amnesty? I don't believe
there are more stabbings suddenly happening, just that the news media
are picking up the details.
Polishing your rose-tinted spectacles, maybe. Of course there are more
stabbings happening.
When was the last murder on a train? Not a common event, for sure.
7 July?

As far as the main line is concerned there was a nasty one on the
London-Hastings line about 10 years back, can't think of one since.
--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>
Roland Perry
2006-05-27 15:13:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
As far as the main line is concerned there was a nasty one on the
London-Hastings line about 10 years back, can't think of one since.
On trains is fairly unusual (except in France for some reason); at
stations is relatively common.
--
Roland Perry
k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
2006-05-27 14:34:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Hulme
When was the last murder on a train? Not a common event, for sure.
No, but Oxenholme has an unfortunate record for railway-related murder
- a policeman was shot dead on the staion in 1965.
Envo
2006-05-27 15:30:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
Post by Charlie Hulme
When was the last murder on a train? Not a common event, for sure.
No, but Oxenholme has an unfortunate record for railway-related murder
- a policeman was shot dead on the staion in 1965.
Not forgetting 'Murder on the Orient Express' - a lot of stabbing there if I
recall correctly!


Envo
G
2006-05-27 15:54:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Envo
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
Post by Charlie Hulme
When was the last murder on a train? Not a common event, for sure.
No, but Oxenholme has an unfortunate record for railway-related murder
- a policeman was shot dead on the staion in 1965.
Not forgetting 'Murder on the Orient Express' - a lot of stabbing there if
I recall correctly!
Envo
Pathetic how someone can add a joke line to the mention of a tragic event
Alfred Packer
2006-05-28 11:10:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
Post by Charlie Hulme
When was the last murder on a train? Not a common event, for sure.
No, but Oxenholme has an unfortunate record for railway-related murder
- a policeman was shot dead on the staion in 1965.
ISTR the perpetrator had committed a bank robbery further north and was on
the run. The cops cornered him at Oxenholme station. Unfortunately the
perpetrator tripped and fell down the steps and lived ever after as a
vegetable.

Al
allan tracy
2006-05-27 14:36:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Hulme
Polishing your rose-tinted spectacles, maybe. Of course there are more
stabbings happening.
Tough on crime tough on the causes of crime.

In which case, why has no one blown up Skelmersdale yet?
Ian Johnston
2006-05-27 14:42:45 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 27 May 2006 14:16:27 UTC, Charlie Hulme
<***@davenportstation.org.uk> wrote:

: When was the last murder on a train?

That Serbian bridge?

Ian

--
Kirk
2006-05-27 15:09:21 UTC
Permalink
There is a key as to why this has been picked up by the media, when the
background to the arrested person emerges.. all I'll say!!!
Charlie Hulme
2006-05-27 15:22:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kirk
There is a key as to why this has been picked up by the media, when the
background to the arrested person emerges.. all I'll say!!!
Very cryptic, but do you believe there are murders on trains which are
*not* picked up by the media?

Charlie
Ian Johnston
2006-05-27 15:50:15 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 27 May 2006 15:22:31 UTC, Charlie Hulme
<***@davenportstation.org.uk> wrote:

: Kirk wrote:
:
: > There is a key as to why this has been picked up by the media, when the
: > background to the arrested person emerges.. all I'll say!!!
: >
: >
: Very cryptic, but do you believe there are murders on trains which are
: *not* picked up by the media?

He could tell you, but then he'd have to kill you. On a train.

Ian
g***@aol.com
2006-05-29 21:04:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kirk
There is a key as to why this has been picked up by the media, when the
background to the arrested person emerges.. all I'll say!!!
Go on tell us all now then please. The media are not giving this any
spin or is the "background" as relevant as John Prescott playing
croquet ? The BBW, sorry BBC website advises "Thomas Lee Wood, of
Skelmersdale in Lancashire, was remanded in custody until June, when he
appeared before magistrates in Kendal on Monday".

Fat Richard
Roland Perry
2006-05-27 15:06:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Hulme
Post by Roland Perry
Also interesting how stabbings are now headline news up and down the
country, could this be because of the knife amnesty? I don't believe
there are more stabbings suddenly happening, just that the news media
are picking up the details.
Polishing your rose-tinted spectacles, maybe. Of course there are more
stabbings happening.
What, suddenly, the last few weeks; and coincidentally just as a knife
amnesty starts? No, it's the media choosing to report them.
--
Roland Perry
Chris Read
2006-05-28 18:30:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
What, suddenly, the last few weeks; and coincidentally just as a knife
amnesty starts? No, it's the media choosing to report them.
And why shouldn't they?

Chris
Roland Perry
2006-05-28 18:43:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Read
Post by Roland Perry
What, suddenly, the last few weeks; and coincidentally just as a knife
amnesty starts? No, it's the media choosing to report them.
And why shouldn't they?
On one hand they can report what they like; but it's not exactly
"balanced" (as there's an agenda behind it).

It also makes people think there's been a huge recent increase in knife
crime (which is what their agenda is aiming at, I suppose).
--
Roland Perry
w***@netscape.net
2006-05-27 15:16:45 UTC
Permalink
I'm sorry Roland but I don't think you live in the same England as me.
There are media reports of stabbings nearly everyday, at least on the
West Midlands media.

It is a sad state of affairs when people go out for a harmless night
out in a club, or even on a train, when some idiot with a knife takes
them out.

I blame the constant diet of violence and murder perpetrated on people
through film and TV. Feed someone with enough violence and murder on a
regular basis and it will become the acceptable norm.

Phil


rivc
k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
2006-05-27 15:52:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@netscape.net
I'm sorry Roland but I don't think you live in the same England as me.
There are media reports of stabbings nearly everyday, at least on the
West Midlands media.
It is a sad state of affairs when people go out for a harmless night
out in a club, or even on a train, when some idiot with a knife takes
them out.
Indeed, but let's not forget the amount of derision that was posted
here a few weeks ago regarding BTP using metal detectors at stations in
an operation targeted at knives.
Tim Rogers
2006-05-27 18:02:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
Post by w***@netscape.net
I'm sorry Roland but I don't think you live in the same England as me.
There are media reports of stabbings nearly everyday, at least on the
West Midlands media.
It is a sad state of affairs when people go out for a harmless night
out in a club, or even on a train, when some idiot with a knife takes
them out.
Indeed, but let's not forget the amount of derision that was posted
here a few weeks ago regarding BTP using metal detectors at stations in
an operation targeted at knives.
Still a stupid idea. One incident doesn't justify a massive over reaction by
putting metal detectors at say Carlisle or Penrith!

Tim
Neil Williams
2006-05-28 17:03:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
Indeed, but let's not forget the amount of derision that was posted
here a few weeks ago regarding BTP using metal detectors at stations in
an operation targeted at knives.
I continue to hold the same opinion. This is *one* incident involving
two people. It is not worth all the delay/inconvenience/inability to
carry a knife for a genuine reason (e.g. someone going fishing by
train) because one person misused one. The correct response, should
that person be caught, is to punish them, and only them, suitably
severely for the offence.

As some have posted, if we just want to reduce deaths as our only
target, banning all road traffic would be a far more effective method.
Not, of course, that I believe that is either desirable nor necessary.

Neil
k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
2006-05-28 20:42:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Williams
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
Indeed, but let's not forget the amount of derision that was posted
here a few weeks ago regarding BTP using metal detectors at stations in
an operation targeted at knives.
I continue to hold the same opinion. This is *one* incident involving
two people. It is not worth all the delay/inconvenience/inability to
carry a knife for a genuine reason (e.g. someone going fishing by
train) because one person misused one.
I'm sure that anyone carrying a knife for a legitimate reason would be
permitted to do so.

The inconvenience is so minimal that I certainly wouldn't object to the
check. If it prevents one death it is worthwhile.
Post by Neil Williams
The correct response, should
that person be caught, is to punish them, and only them, suitably
severely for the offence.
I agree with appropriate punishment, but I also believe in prevention
being better than cure. And I'd prefer a dozen people being fined for
carrying weapons to one person getting life for murder.
Post by Neil Williams
As some have posted, if we just want to reduce deaths as our only
target, banning all road traffic would be a far more effective method.
Not, of course, that I believe that is either desirable nor necessary.
Reducing deaths isn't the only target - giving people confidence that
they are in a safe environment, for example, is another. And there are
plenty of nasty but non-fatal injuries caused by knives.
Neil Williams
2006-05-29 17:17:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
I'm sure that anyone carrying a knife for a legitimate reason would be
permitted to do so.
I can see the sense in having a knife-carrying licence, for which I'd
certainly apply (I'm a Scout leader, and there are many uses for one on
camp).
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
The inconvenience is so minimal that I certainly wouldn't object to the
check. If it prevents one death it is worthwhile.
Not necessarily. Many things could prevent one death, but aren't
worthwhile.

As for feeling safe, I do not feel unsafe on trains; very much the
opposite.

Neil
Charlie Hulme
2006-05-29 17:19:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Williams
I can see the sense in having a knife-carrying licence, for which I'd
certainly apply (I'm a Scout leader, and there are many uses for one on
camp).
If I bought a bread knife, would I need a licence to get it home?

Charlie
Neil Williams
2006-05-29 18:37:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Hulme
If I bought a bread knife, would I need a licence to get it home?
Valid point. Perhaps a receipt could be considered evidence? Not to
say, of course, that a murder could not be committed with a brand new
knife.

It is a rather complex issue compared with guns - though obviously they
too need to be carried in some way between the place of manufacture,
purchase and use, albeit unloaded and possibly without carrying any
ammunition at the same time. (I'm not familiar with firearms rules as
I don't own one).

Neil
k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
2006-05-29 18:14:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Williams
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
I'm sure that anyone carrying a knife for a legitimate reason would be
permitted to do so.
I can see the sense in having a knife-carrying licence, for which I'd
certainly apply (I'm a Scout leader, and there are many uses for one on
camp).
I'm sure that there are many uses in camp, but I'm equally sure that if
you are travelling to or from a camp by train your knife should be
safely packed away in your kit.

In fact, didn't Scouts stop wearing knives as part of their uniform
some years ago?
Post by Neil Williams
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
The inconvenience is so minimal that I certainly wouldn't object to the
check. If it prevents one death it is worthwhile.
Not necessarily. Many things could prevent one death, but aren't
worthwhile.
Occasionally walking through a metal detector is so small an
inconvenience that only the terminally stupid, or those who object to
just about everything as a matter of 'principle', would be bothered.
Post by Neil Williams
As for feeling safe, I do not feel unsafe on trains; very much the
opposite.
Trains and railways don't exist in a vacuum - actions taken (and seen
to be taken) at railway stations have a wider impact.
Roland Perry
2006-05-29 18:21:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
Occasionally walking through a metal detector is so small an
inconvenience that only the terminally stupid, or those who object to
just about everything as a matter of 'principle', would be bothered.
As long as it is "occasional", I wouldn't want to have to queue to go
through one every time I caught a train.
--
Roland Perry
Chris Johns
2006-05-30 10:26:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
As long as it is "occasional", I wouldn't want to have to queue to go
through one every time I caught a train.
What if you have an AP ticket so need to catch a given train? Do you now
need to arrive at the station 2 hours beforehand in case you get searched?

It'll just drive more people onto the road (no pun intended) where you
can of corse kill someone and pretty much "get away with it".

Cheers

Chris
--
Chris Johns
David Hansen
2006-05-30 11:39:52 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 30 May 2006 11:26:06 +0100 someone who may be Chris Johns
Post by Chris Johns
It'll just drive more people onto the road (no pun intended)
Agreed.
Post by Chris Johns
where you
can of corse kill someone and pretty much "get away with it".
Roads are also places where one can be attacked by people with
knives, as a series of stabbings have shown.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
Neil Williams
2006-05-29 18:30:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
I'm sure that there are many uses in camp, but I'm equally sure that if
you are travelling to or from a camp by train your knife should be
safely packed away in your kit.
Correct - but (unlike when travelling by air, where it would be in the
checked-in luggage) I'm still carrying it.

I would presume (possibly incorrectly) that these scanners would also
involve X-raying luggage?
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
In fact, didn't Scouts stop wearing knives as part of their uniform
some years ago?
Also correct.

Neil
k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
2006-05-29 18:43:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Williams
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
I'm sure that there are many uses in camp, but I'm equally sure that if
you are travelling to or from a camp by train your knife should be
safely packed away in your kit.
Correct - but (unlike when travelling by air, where it would be in the
checked-in luggage) I'm still carrying it.
I would presume (possibly incorrectly) that these scanners would also
involve X-raying luggage?
I assume that to be the case. I also assume that it is very unlikely
that a Scout leader (or his troop) would be checked.
Neil Williams
2006-05-29 18:33:52 UTC
Permalink
(Sorry for the double-reply...)
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
Occasionally walking through a metal detector is so small an
inconvenience that only the terminally stupid, or those who object to
just about everything as a matter of 'principle', would be bothered.
Occasionally, yes. If it was every time I boarded a train, no, unless
there were sufficient of such detectors and staff (to keep personal
items secure while passing through, e.g. keys) that there would be as
many as there currently are ticket barriers in locations fitted with
those.
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
Post by Neil Williams
As for feeling safe, I do not feel unsafe on trains; very much the
opposite.
Trains and railways don't exist in a vacuum - actions taken (and seen
to be taken) at railway stations have a wider impact.
I'd go so far as to say that the presence of such things suggests that
they are needed, which makes me *more* nervous. I'd apply the same
thing to arming the police; if the police become armed throughout, it
would be in response to a need, which would in itself mean I felt less
safe.

Others, of course, will disagree, but I don't find (for example) the
presence of police with large machine guns in airports at all
reassuring, as they wouldn't be there if there wasn't a need for them.

Neil
Paul Weaver
2006-05-29 19:58:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
Occasionally walking through a metal detector is so small an
inconvenience that only the terminally stupid, or those who object to
just about everything as a matter of 'principle', would be bothered.
Ever been to an airport? Seen the queues for security? Seen the
manpower required? The cost of equipping and manning even the main
stations part time would be better spent on hospitals. It would be
cheaper to have a uniformed police officer in every carrage in every
train than to scan people getting onto trains.

The airport is massivly inconvienient, dealing with it twice a day
would be unbearable, and more and more people would use their cars
instead. Emptying pockets (coins, keys, phone, etc), emptying bags (you
have to take your laptop out of your bag for some reason nowadays),
taking your belt off, still getting manually scanned (the little metal
bits on my jeans set the scanner off last time). If that's a "little
inconvienence" I'd hate to see your definition of pain in the ass.

Besides, I carry a large selection of potentially lethal weapons when I
travel by train (en-route to work, or en-route back), screwdrivers, box
cutter, penknife, etc. A chef might carry several 12" knives!
Roland Perry
2006-05-29 20:09:36 UTC
Permalink
you have to take your laptop out of your bag for some reason nowadays
It's because they can be very dense, and can screen a weapon from the
x-ray machine.
--
Roland Perry
k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
2006-05-29 20:23:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Weaver
Ever been to an airport? Seen the queues for security? Seen the
manpower required? The cost of equipping and manning even the main
stations part time would be better spent on hospitals. It would be
cheaper to have a uniformed police officer in every carrage in every
train than to scan people getting onto trains.
The scanning of people at railway stations is being carried out on a
mobile basis. There certialnly isn't a plan to have fixed scanners at
every station. The idea is to create a deterrent effect.
Post by Paul Weaver
The airport is massivly inconvienient, dealing with it twice a day
would be unbearable, and more and more people would use their cars
instead. Emptying pockets (coins, keys, phone, etc), emptying bags (you
have to take your laptop out of your bag for some reason nowadays),
taking your belt off, still getting manually scanned (the little metal
bits on my jeans set the scanner off last time). If that's a "little
inconvienence" I'd hate to see your definition of pain in the ass.
All good stuff, except that it isn't working like that at stations.
Post by Paul Weaver
Besides, I carry a large selection of potentially lethal weapons when I
travel by train (en-route to work, or en-route back), screwdrivers, box
cutter, penknife, etc. A chef might carry several 12" knives!
People carrying stuff for lawful reasons isn't an issue.
DM
2006-05-29 20:59:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
Post by Paul Weaver
Besides, I carry a large selection of potentially lethal weapons when I
travel by train (en-route to work, or en-route back), screwdrivers, box
cutter, penknife, etc. A chef might carry several 12" knives!
People carrying stuff for lawful reasons isn't an issue.
But people carry knives for unlawful reasons are hardly going to own up to
their intention to maim or kill someone. There are many reasons for carrying
certain types of knives and incredibly difficult to police.

There was a trainee chef who regularly left his collection of rather long
sharp knives on a bus to and from work - god knows how you manage to forget
six lethal weapons wrapped in a big bundle of cloth on a bus but he managed
to do it on several occasions in quick succession - it wasn't until I
threatened to have them destroyed next time he lost them because I was so
fed up of having dangerous weapons in my custody that he remembered to take
them with him.
k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
2006-05-29 21:09:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
Post by Paul Weaver
Besides, I carry a large selection of potentially lethal weapons when I
travel by train (en-route to work, or en-route back), screwdrivers, box
cutter, penknife, etc. A chef might carry several 12" knives!
People carrying stuff for lawful reasons isn't an issue.
But people carry knives for unlawful reasons are hardly going to own up to
their intention to maim or kill someone. There are many reasons for carrying
certain types of knives and incredibly difficult to police.
The onus is on the person carrying the knife to show that they have it
for a lawful purpose.

(Prevention of Crime Act 1953 s.1; Criminal Justice Act 1988 s139(1))
DM
2006-05-29 21:21:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
Post by DM
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
Post by Paul Weaver
Besides, I carry a large selection of potentially lethal weapons when I
travel by train (en-route to work, or en-route back), screwdrivers, box
cutter, penknife, etc. A chef might carry several 12" knives!
People carrying stuff for lawful reasons isn't an issue.
But people carry knives for unlawful reasons are hardly going to own up to
their intention to maim or kill someone. There are many reasons for carrying
certain types of knives and incredibly difficult to police.
The onus is on the person carrying the knife to show that they have it
for a lawful purpose.
(Prevention of Crime Act 1953 s.1; Criminal Justice Act 1988 s139(1))
Most people could find a lawful purpose for carrying a bread knife (i.e.
"just brought it guv", "going on a picnic guv", etc...) or many other types
of knives. There was a very recent case of a schizophrenic who travelled by
train to commit murder at his destination with a bread knife which he had
purchased/stolen (can't recall exact details) from a shop on the day of the
murder.
k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
2006-05-29 21:29:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Most people could find a lawful purpose for carrying a bread knife (i.e.
"just brought it guv", "going on a picnic guv", etc...) or many other types
of knives.
A lot would depend on how it was being carried (packaging if 'just
bought', other picnic items if 'going on a picnic').
Post by DM
There was a very recent case of a schizophrenic who travelled by
train to commit murder at his destination with a bread knife which he had
purchased/stolen (can't recall exact details) from a shop on the day of the
murder.
As you have pointed out, he was mentally ill. Quite possibly, if he
had been scanned and the knife discovered various tell-tale signs might
have raised concern about his state of mind, and a tragedy could have
been averted.
Ian Johnston
2006-05-29 21:34:25 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 29 May 2006 21:21:43 UTC, "DM" <***@spamspamspam.com> wrote:

: There was a very recent case of a schizophrenic who travelled by
: train to commit murder at his destination with a bread knife which he had
: purchased/stolen (can't recall exact details) from a shop on the day of the
: murder.

That sounds like the murder of Elizabeth Howe by Robin Pask at an Open
University summer school in York University in 1992.

Ian
--
Charlie Hulme
2006-05-30 09:51:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Most people could find a lawful purpose for carrying a bread knife (i.e.
"just brought it guv", "going on a picnic guv", etc...) or many other types
of knives. There was a very recent case of a schizophrenic who travelled by
train to commit murder at his destination with a bread knife which he had
purchased/stolen (can't recall exact details) from a shop on the day of the
murder.
At airports I find I can only avoid a search by taking out my keys,
spare specs, sometimes removing my shoes which seem to have a steel
strengthener in the soles, etc. Are we going to have all this
palaver at rail stations as well? Not to mention having to empty
out my bag which might have something metal in it, unlike
at airports where the bag gets X-rayed.

Seems to me the main result of this is going to be to
make trouble-makers go into town by bus, car or taxi.

Charlie
David Hansen
2006-05-30 11:41:27 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 30 May 2006 10:51:37 +0100 someone who may be Charlie Hulme
Post by Charlie Hulme
At airports I find I can only avoid a search by taking out my keys,
spare specs, sometimes removing my shoes which seem to have a steel
strengthener in the soles, etc. Are we going to have all this
palaver at rail stations as well?
Some will undoubtedly say it is a price well worth paying.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
Chris Johns
2006-05-30 13:21:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Hansen
Post by Charlie Hulme
At airports I find I can only avoid a search by taking out my keys,
spare specs, sometimes removing my shoes which seem to have a steel
strengthener in the soles, etc. Are we going to have all this
palaver at rail stations as well?
Some will undoubtedly say it is a price well worth paying.
Uusally those who don't ever use trains, or use them once or twice a
year for a long journey.
--
Chris Johns
David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
2006-05-30 13:26:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Johns
Post by David Hansen
Post by Charlie Hulme
At airports I find I can only avoid a search by taking out my keys,
spare specs, sometimes removing my shoes which seem to have a steel
strengthener in the soles, etc. Are we going to have all this
palaver at rail stations as well?
Some will undoubtedly say it is a price well worth paying.
Uusally those who don't ever use trains,
Yes, like politicians. That's what worries me!
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
David Hansen
2006-05-31 05:55:38 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 30 May 2006 14:26:23 +0100 someone who may be
***@yahoo.com (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of
the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote
this:-
Post by David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
Post by Chris Johns
Post by David Hansen
Some will undoubtedly say it is a price well worth paying.
Uusally those who don't ever use trains,
Yes, like politicians. That's what worries me!
Some Westminster party politicians tend to make more use of trains
than many other people. However, those from outwith London tend to
make long distance journeys in first class for their long weekends
away from Westminster and thus have a somewhat different experience
to most passengers.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
Charlie Hulme
2006-05-30 14:58:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Hansen
On Tue, 30 May 2006 10:51:37 +0100 someone who may be Charlie Hulme
Post by Charlie Hulme
At airports I find I can only avoid a search by taking out my keys,
spare specs, sometimes removing my shoes which seem to have a steel
strengthener in the soles, etc. Are we going to have all this
palaver at rail stations as well?
Some will undoubtedly say it is a price well worth paying.
There's always someone who will undoubtedly agree with any
half-baked idea.

If you are going to have metal detector searches, why not
in the drinking-holes and other tribal gatherings
frequented by the yobs, and leave the rest of us alone?

Charlie
David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
2006-05-30 15:13:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Hulme
Post by David Hansen
On Tue, 30 May 2006 10:51:37 +0100 someone who may be Charlie Hulme
Post by Charlie Hulme
At airports I find I can only avoid a search by taking out my keys,
spare specs, sometimes removing my shoes which seem to have a steel
strengthener in the soles, etc. Are we going to have all this
palaver at rail stations as well?
Some will undoubtedly say it is a price well worth paying.
There's always someone who will undoubtedly agree with any
half-baked idea.
If you are going to have metal detector searches, why not
in the drinking-holes and other tribal gatherings
frequented by the yobs, and leave the rest of us alone?
It wouldn't be a big deal for many venues, as searches and pat-downs in
night clubs are not unusual. We even got patted down at the Birmingham
Pride events at Cannon Hill Park over the weekend.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
David Hansen
2006-05-30 15:52:59 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 30 May 2006 16:13:52 +0100 someone who may be
***@yahoo.com (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of
the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote
this:-
Post by David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
It wouldn't be a big deal for many venues, as searches and pat-downs in
night clubs are not unusual.
Why would one frequent a place selling over expensive drinks and
loud music?
Post by David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
We even got patted down at the Birmingham
Pride events at Cannon Hill Park over the weekend.
Give them a two word answer, the second word being off.

It is now abundantly clear that the west lost the cold war. Instead
of the free and open society people claimed the west stood for, what
we now see appearing at a very rapid rate is the repressive society
the east certainly stood for.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
2006-05-30 15:55:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Hansen
On Tue, 30 May 2006 16:13:52 +0100 someone who may be
this:-
Post by David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
It wouldn't be a big deal for many venues, as searches and pat-downs in
night clubs are not unusual.
Why would one frequent a place selling over expensive drinks and
loud music?
Because it can be fun.
Post by David Hansen
Post by David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
We even got patted down at the Birmingham
Pride events at Cannon Hill Park over the weekend.
Give them a two word answer, the second word being off.
I didn't mind it.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
Chris Tolley
2006-05-30 16:36:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Hansen
It is now abundantly clear that the west lost the cold war. Instead
of the free and open society people claimed the west stood for, what
we now see appearing at a very rapid rate is the repressive society
the east certainly stood for.
Well so far there don't seem to be any limits on hyperbole.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p12598535.html
(57 009 at Sytch Lane (Slindon), 31 Jan 2005)
Roland Perry
2006-05-30 16:40:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Hansen
Post by David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
It wouldn't be a big deal for many venues, as searches and pat-downs in
night clubs are not unusual.
Why would one frequent a place selling over expensive drinks and
loud music?
...and lots of nubile young ladies.

My, that's a hard one (as they say).
--
Roland Perry
matt
2006-05-30 22:28:21 UTC
Permalink
David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
Post by David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
We even got patted down at the Birmingham
Pride events at Cannon Hill Park over the weekend.
Aargh... must resist obvious stereotypical double-entendres involving
concealed weapons...
David Hansen
2006-05-30 15:49:37 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 30 May 2006 15:58:57 +0100 someone who may be Charlie Hulme
Post by Charlie Hulme
There's always someone who will undoubtedly agree with any
half-baked idea.
Indeed, especially when the magic word "security" is used. Many
think they can switch off their brain if this magic word is used.
Post by Charlie Hulme
If you are going to have metal detector searches, why not
in the drinking-holes and other tribal gatherings
frequented by the yobs, and leave the rest of us alone?
At the risk of sounding like a Daily Wail motoring journalist, the
police are only interested in easy targets.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
2006-05-30 11:56:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Hulme
Post by DM
Most people could find a lawful purpose for carrying a bread knife (i.e.
"just brought it guv", "going on a picnic guv", etc...) or many other types
of knives. There was a very recent case of a schizophrenic who travelled by
train to commit murder at his destination with a bread knife which he had
purchased/stolen (can't recall exact details) from a shop on the day of the
murder.
At airports I find I can only avoid a search by taking out my keys,
spare specs, sometimes removing my shoes which seem to have a steel
strengthener in the soles, etc. Are we going to have all this
palaver at rail stations as well? Not to mention having to empty
out my bag which might have something metal in it, unlike
at airports where the bag gets X-rayed.
Seems to me the main result of this is going to be to
make trouble-makers go into town by bus, car or taxi.
Stabbings and murders on public transport are rare. There are more
murders on buses than on trains, and no one is going to seriously
propose airline style security for buses. Most perpetrators of such
crimes get caught, so society would be better dealing with them severely
enough to put people off going nuts in the first place, which will not
work in all cases I concede, but is worth a start.

Oh, and what about having glass detectors too?

A few years ago, someone died on a Manchester bus after being struck in
the back of the head with a beer glass after an 'argument.' The initial
murder charge was plea bargained down to manslaughter, and the killer
got 4 years. He was sentenced in June 2003, so could be out now for all
I know. Free to ruin more people's lives.

I believe in rehabilitation and don't think people should be locked up
forever, but I don't think that such sentences are any kind of
deterrent. I'd rather the powers that be dealt with this kind of
injustice than started to frighten everyone else with metal detectors at
stations.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
2006-05-30 12:11:58 UTC
Permalink
David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
Post by David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
Stabbings and murders on public transport are rare. There are more
murders on buses than on trains, and no one is going to seriously
propose airline style security for buses.
No-one is suggesting airline-style security at railway stations - the
use of metal detectors in a campaign against knives has a totally
different ethos to the security at airports.
David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
2006-05-30 12:17:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
Post by David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
Stabbings and murders on public transport are rare. There are more
murders on buses than on trains, and no one is going to seriously
propose airline style security for buses.
No-one is suggesting airline-style security at railway stations - the
use of metal detectors in a campaign against knives has a totally
different ethos to the security at airports.
I've seen the metal detectors being tried at Lime Street. It's
definitely airline-style.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
David Hansen
2006-05-30 12:18:17 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 30 May 2006 12:56:34 +0100 someone who may be
***@yahoo.com (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of
the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote
this:-
Post by David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
Stabbings and murders on public transport are rare. There are more
murders on buses than on trains, and no one is going to seriously
propose airline style security for buses. Most perpetrators of such
crimes get caught, so society would be better dealing with them severely
enough to put people off going nuts in the first place, which will not
work in all cases I concede, but is worth a start.
Oh, and what about having glass detectors too?
AOL.

I have been attacked by someone on a bus, who used his head as a
weapon. The police will not be using head detectors on buses.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
PRAR
2006-07-13 21:58:01 UTC
Permalink
DERWENT Re: Murder at Oxenholme
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
Post by DM
Post by k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
Post by Paul Weaver
Besides, I carry a large selection of potentially lethal weapons when I
travel by train (en-route to work, or en-route back), screwdrivers, box
cutter, penknife, etc. A chef might carry several 12" knives!
People carrying stuff for lawful reasons isn't an issue.
But people carry knives for unlawful reasons are hardly going to own up to
their intention to maim or kill someone. There are many reasons for carrying
certain types of knives and incredibly difficult to police.
The onus is on the person carrying the knife to show that they have it
for a lawful purpose.
(Prevention of Crime Act 1953 s.1; Criminal Justice Act 1988 s139(1))
Guilty until proven innocent then.

PRAR
--
<http://www.i.am/prar/> and <http://prar.fotopic.net/>
As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. --Dick Cavett
Please reply to the newsgroup. That is why it exists.
NB Anti-spam measures in force
- If you must email me use the Reply to address and not ***@deadspam.com
Roland Perry
2006-05-27 16:16:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@netscape.net
I'm sorry Roland but I don't think you live in the same England as me.
There are media reports of stabbings nearly everyday, at least on the
West Midlands media.
It's the ones picked up by the nationals I'm most interested in.
Post by w***@netscape.net
It is a sad state of affairs when people go out for a harmless night
out in a club, or even on a train, when some idiot with a knife takes
them out.
I agree.
Post by w***@netscape.net
I blame the constant diet of violence and murder perpetrated on people
through film and TV. Feed someone with enough violence and murder on a
regular basis and it will become the acceptable norm.
Wrong newsgroup to debate that.
--
Roland Perry
allan tracy
2006-05-27 16:31:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@netscape.net
It is a sad state of affairs when people go out for a harmless night
out in a club, or even on a train, when some idiot with a knife takes
them out.
I blame the constant diet of violence and murder perpetrated on people
through film and TV. Feed someone with enough violence and murder on a
regular basis and it will become the acceptable norm.
On that basis, rugby crowds should be more violent that football crowds
yet it's the other way round.

The vast majority of us are quite capable of being exposed to all forms
of media without going even the slightest bit off the rails.

In Japan, films, TV and even teenage comics often contain very graphic
images of voilence (and sexual violence) far worse than anything seen
over here. Yet, Japan is one of the safest countries in the World, even
young girls feel quite safe walking out in the city late at night.

There will always be someone sufficiently warped to copy something they
see in a film or on TV but the point is, surely, that they were warped
to start with and therefore always likely to do something wicked.

Take the arguements concerning violent pornography, what should be
worrying us? That this type of porn exists?

Maybe, but pornographers are not in the business of propoganda they are
very market driven and maybe that's what should be worrying us - that
the demand existed in the first place.

In any case, history tells us that the biggest causes of violence in
society has often been mere ideas.

Besides, once you accept the idea that TV is to blame you then have to
accept the idea that the murderer is not.
Roland Perry
2006-05-28 08:02:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@netscape.net
I'm sorry Roland but I don't think you live in the same England as me.
There are media reports of stabbings nearly everyday, at least on the
West Midlands media.
BBC has now put together a list of recent stabbings:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5023872.stm
--
Roland Perry
David Hansen
2006-05-28 08:36:53 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 28 May 2006 09:02:21 +0100 someone who may be Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5023872.stm
Thanks. Looks like if the police want to play with metal detectors
they should be doing so outwith the railways, on the roads in
particular.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
Roland Perry
2006-05-28 11:02:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Hansen
Looks like if the police want to play with metal detectors
they should be doing so outwith the railways, on the roads in
particular.
Perhaps it's significant that ACPO's lead on knife crime is from BTP?

(British Transport Police Chief Constable Ian Johnston).
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2006-05-28 17:22:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Hansen
On Sun, 28 May 2006 09:02:21 +0100 someone who may be Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5023872.stm
Thanks. Looks like if the police want to play with metal detectors
they should be doing so outwith the railways, on the roads in
particular.
They might discover that road vehicles are largely made of metal...


SCNR
--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>
David Hansen
2006-05-30 11:41:56 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 28 May 2006 18:22:09 +0100 someone who may be Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by David Hansen
Thanks. Looks like if the police want to play with metal detectors
they should be doing so outwith the railways, on the roads in
particular.
They might discover that road vehicles are largely made of metal...
As are trains...
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
Graeme Wall
2006-05-30 15:34:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Hansen
On Sun, 28 May 2006 18:22:09 +0100 someone who may be Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by David Hansen
Thanks. Looks like if the police want to play with metal detectors
they should be doing so outwith the railways, on the roads in
particular.
They might discover that road vehicles are largely made of metal...
As are trains...
But road vehicles can be boarded (almost) anywhere, unlike trains. Where
would you suggest putting metal detectors on the roads?
--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>
David Hansen
2006-05-30 16:29:14 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 30 May 2006 16:34:30 +0100 someone who may be Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
But road vehicles can be boarded (almost) anywhere, unlike trains.
Yes.
Post by Graeme Wall
Where would you suggest putting metal detectors on the roads?
I don't suggest putting them anywhere on the roads. Neither did I
suggest putting them anywhere on the railways.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
Graeme Wall
2006-05-30 18:52:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Hansen
On Tue, 30 May 2006 16:34:30 +0100 someone who may be Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
But road vehicles can be boarded (almost) anywhere, unlike trains.
Yes.
Post by Graeme Wall
Where would you suggest putting metal detectors on the roads?
I don't suggest putting them anywhere on the roads. Neither did I
suggest putting them anywhere on the railways.
Post by Graeme Wall
Thanks. Looks like if the police want to play with metal detectors they
should be doing so outwith the railways, on the roads in particular.
So when you said on the roads in particular, you didn't mean the roads in
particular.
--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>
David Hansen
2006-05-31 05:58:19 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 30 May 2006 19:52:12 +0100 someone who may be Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
So when you said on the roads in particular, you didn't mean the roads in
particular.
I was illustrating where the police would be better employed than on
the railways. It would indeed be foolish to use metal detectors on
the roads, that is the point.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
Graeme Wall
2006-05-31 07:49:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Hansen
On Tue, 30 May 2006 19:52:12 +0100 someone who may be Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
So when you said on the roads in particular, you didn't mean the roads in
particular.
I was illustrating where the police would be better employed than on
the railways. It would indeed be foolish to use metal detectors on
the roads, that is the point.
So did you mean the roads in particular or not? If it is foolish to use
metal detectors on the roads, how is that better than using them at railway
stations, where they do at least achieve something, even if the end result is
disproportionate to the effort and agro involved?
--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>
Ian Johnston
2006-05-27 15:57:41 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 27 May 2006 14:01:51 UTC, Roland Perry <***@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

: Two hour delays currently being predicted :(

V jnf rkcrpgvat gb frr guvf sebz n erthyne ... fvapr ur unfa'g cbfgrq
vg lrg, V'yy uryc bhg:

Glcvpny varssvpvrapl ol gur qvooyrf, nyy bs jubz ner guvpx nf guerr
fubeg cynaxf naq pnaabg trg vg vagb gurve fxhyyf gung npphengr gvzvat
bs genvaf vf sne zber vzcbegnag guna pngpuvat fb-pnyyrq "zheqreref".
Jung gurl fubhyq unir qbar vf pbire gur obql jvgu n furrg bs cynfgvp,
eha gur genva nf abezny (guerr zvahgrf' qrynl, znkvzhz) naq gura
vairfgvtngr jura gur genva vf arkg gnxra bhg bs freivpr sbe na
bireunhy. Bcravat n pbhcyr bs qbbef fubhyq xrrc vg dhvgr pbby rabhtu
sbe n srj jrrxf.

Ian "Nice trier" J


--
Kirk
2006-05-27 16:10:42 UTC
Permalink
Is your spell checker corrupted by any chance?
Post by Ian Johnston
V jnf rkcrpgvat gb frr guvf sebz n erthyne ... fvapr ur unfa'g cbfgrq
Glcvpny varssvpvrapl ol gur qvooyrf, nyy bs jubz ner guvpx nf guerr
fubeg cynaxf naq pnaabg trg vg vagb gurve fxhyyf gung npphengr gvzvat
bs genvaf vf sne zber vzcbegnag guna pngpuvat fb-pnyyrq "zheqreref".
Jung gurl fubhyq unir qbar vf pbire gur obql jvgu n furrg bs cynfgvp,
eha gur genva nf abezny (guerr zvahgrf' qrynl, znkvzhz) naq gura
vairfgvtngr jura gur genva vf arkg gnxra bhg bs freivpr sbe na
bireunhy. Bcravat n pbhcyr bs qbbef fubhyq xrrc vg dhvgr pbby rabhtu
sbe n srj jrrxf.
Ian "Nice trier" J
--
Ben
2006-05-27 16:27:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Johnston
Bcravat n pbhcyr bs qbbef fubhyq xrrc vg dhvgr pbby rabhtu
sbe n srj jrrxf.
Keep up, Virgin trains have air conditioning nowardays.
Ian Johnston
2006-05-27 16:32:28 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 27 May 2006 16:27:07 UTC, Ben <***@nospam.com> wrote:

: Ian Johnston wrote:
: > Bcravat n pbhcyr bs qbbef fubhyq xrrc vg dhvgr pbby rabhtu
: > sbe n srj jrrxf.
:
: Keep up, Virgin trains have air conditioning nowardays.

Did you get the reference?

Ian
--
Ben
2006-05-27 16:38:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Johnston
: > Bcravat n pbhcyr bs qbbef fubhyq xrrc vg dhvgr pbby rabhtu
: > sbe n srj jrrxf.
: Keep up, Virgin trains have air conditioning nowardays.
Did you get the reference?
I'm not a sufficiently frequent lurker on this group to know who the
regular is to whom you refer. I just had a look in to see what the delay
was at oxenholme, and I'm a sucker for a bit of rot13 - well it must be
good if its worth concealing ;-)
David C.
2006-05-27 19:18:15 UTC
Permalink
On 27 May 2006 16:32:28 GMT, "Ian Johnston"
Post by Ian Johnston
: > Bcravat n pbhcyr bs qbbef fubhyq xrrc vg dhvgr pbby rabhtu
: > sbe n srj jrrxf.
: Keep up, Virgin trains have air conditioning nowardays.
Did you get the reference?
Ian
No!

Did you post gibberish?

DC
Rich Mackin
2006-05-27 23:09:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by David C.
On 27 May 2006 16:32:28 GMT, "Ian Johnston"
Post by Ian Johnston
: > Bcravat n pbhcyr bs qbbef fubhyq xrrc vg dhvgr pbby rabhtu
: > sbe n srj jrrxf.
: Keep up, Virgin trains have air conditioning nowardays.
Did you get the reference?
Ian
No!
Did you post gibberish?
Nothing new there ;)
--
Rich Mackin (rich-dot-mackin-at-ntlworld-dot-com)
MSN: richmackin-at-hotmail-dot-com
k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
2006-05-27 19:33:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Johnston
: > Bcravat n pbhcyr bs qbbef fubhyq xrrc vg dhvgr pbby rabhtu
: > sbe n srj jrrxf.
: Keep up, Virgin trains have air conditioning nowardays.
Did you get the reference?
Take heed - a bit of ROT 13 holds no fear for a man who not only will
*always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents him, but
is also sometime Communications Director of the New Edinburgh Tramways
Company.
Joyce Whitchurch
2006-05-27 20:04:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Johnston
V jnf rkcrpgvat gb frr guvf sebz n erthyne ... fvapr ur unfa'g cbfgrq
Glcvpny varssvpvrapl ol gur qvooyrf, nyy bs jubz ner guvpx nf guerr
fubeg cynaxf naq pnaabg trg vg vagb gurve fxhyyf gung npphengr gvzvat
bs genvaf vf sne zber vzcbegnag guna pngpuvat fb-pnyyrq "zheqreref".
Jung gurl fubhyq unir qbar vf pbire gur obql jvgu n furrg bs cynfgvp,
eha gur genva nf abezny (guerr zvahgrf' qrynl, znkvzhz) naq gura
vairfgvtngr jura gur genva vf arkg gnxra bhg bs freivpr sbe na
bireunhy. Bcravat n pbhcyr bs qbbef fubhyq xrrc vg dhvgr pbby rabhtu
sbe n srj jrrxf.
For the benefit of anyone who can't decypher that:
<http://www.rot13.com/index.php>.

De/cod/ing it is another matter entirely - I can't help you with that!
--
Joyce Whitchurch, Stalybridge, UK
=================================
Old enough to remember the B drive
Chris Tolley
2006-05-28 01:35:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joyce Whitchurch
De/cod/ing it is another matter entirely - I can't help you with that!
Very good.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9633030.html
(From all the smoke, you'd think 47 225's train was really heavy!)
Pete_uk
2006-05-27 20:28:40 UTC
Permalink
There has apparently been a fatal stabbing on a southbound Voyager in the
Penrith/Oxenholme area. Police attending at Oxenholme.
<http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_bulletins/today.html>
Only a strapline on the BBC news site at the time of writing.
AW
What is the unit involved?
Rick Hughes
2006-05-27 20:42:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete_uk
What is the unit involved?
Vna zvtug xabj ...

Rick.
Mark B
2006-05-27 20:59:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete_uk
There has apparently been a fatal stabbing on a southbound Voyager in the
Penrith/Oxenholme area. Police attending at Oxenholme.
<http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_bulletins/today.html>
Only a strapline on the BBC news site at the time of writing.
AW
What is the unit involved?
The Picture on BBC News showed 'Guildford Voyager'
Phil
2006-05-27 22:15:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete_uk
Post by AW
There has apparently been a fatal stabbing on a southbound Voyager in
the Penrith/Oxenholme area. Police attending at Oxenholme.
<http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_bulletins/today.html>
Only a strapline on the BBC news site at the time of writing.
AW
What is the unit involved?
2 units involved, it was a 'double' Voyager. One of the windows was "kicked
out" on one of the Voyagers.

Phil
Roland Perry
2006-05-28 08:05:53 UTC
Permalink
One of the windows was "kicked out" on one of the Voyagers.
"Staff managed to trap the knifeman in a carriage but he smashed
his way out at Oxenholme Station, Cumbria."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/5023422.stm

"Police later arrested a 21-year-old man from Skelmersdale, West
Lancashire, in connection with the incident. The victim is 19
and from Gloucestershire."

<thread convergence>

Let's hope they weren't arguing about a seat reservation.
--
Roland Perry
Pete_uk
2006-05-28 09:35:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
"Police later arrested a 21-year-old man from Skelmersdale, West
Lancashire, in connection with the incident. The victim is 19
and from Gloucestershire."
<thread convergence>
Let's hope they weren't arguing about a seat reservation.
--
Roland Perry
Oh, he's from around these parts then :(
Ben
2006-05-28 16:34:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
One of the windows was "kicked out" on one of the Voyagers.
"Staff managed to trap the knifeman in a carriage but he smashed
his way out at Oxenholme Station, Cumbria."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/5023422.stm
"Police later arrested a 21-year-old man from Skelmersdale, West
Lancashire, in connection with the incident. The victim is 19
and from Gloucestershire."
<thread convergence>
Let's hope they weren't arguing about a seat reservation.
From the quote about the train manager ermm managing to get the
passengers out and locking the perp in, it sounds to me like he must
have been in an end coach, which means its either first class or the
quiet coach. Now, I understand dueling is a frequent occurrence in first
class but rarely leads to serious injury, which just leaves the quiet
coach. I wonder what kind of altercation could possibly occur there...
Roland Perry
2006-05-28 17:30:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben
Post by Roland Perry
Let's hope they weren't arguing about a seat reservation.
From the quote about the train manager ermm managing to get the
passengers out and locking the perp in, it sounds to me like he must
have been in an end coach, which means its either first class or the
quiet coach. Now, I understand dueling is a frequent occurrence in
first class but rarely leads to serious injury, which just leaves the
quiet coach. I wonder what kind of altercation could possibly occur there...
The victim was travelling with his girlfriend. What's not clear is who
started the argument. Perhaps she will be able to tell, one day.
--
Roland Perry
Ian
2006-05-28 16:42:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete_uk
What is the unit involved?
I knew this would happen, but even I could not plummet to such depths
of tastelessness.

Ian
Mark B
2006-05-28 20:13:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian
Post by Pete_uk
What is the unit involved?
I knew this would happen, but even I could not plummet to such depths
of tastelessness.
Ian
I'm not sure I'd be keen to travel on that unit - despite my gothness
I'd feel uneasy knowing I could be sitting in the place where someone died
Roland Perry
2006-05-29 07:19:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark B
I'm not sure I'd be keen to travel on that unit - despite my gothness
I'd feel uneasy knowing I could be sitting in the place where someone died
Do you feel the same if driven along a bit of road where someone has
died? What about the bit of M1 alongside the East Midlands Airport
crash? Do the escalators at Kings Cross make you feel uneasy?
--
Roland Perry
Mark B
2006-05-29 19:58:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Mark B
I'm not sure I'd be keen to travel on that unit - despite my gothness
I'd feel uneasy knowing I could be sitting in the place where someone died
Do you feel the same if driven along a bit of road where someone has
died? What about the bit of M1 alongside the East Midlands Airport
crash? Do the escalators at Kings Cross make you feel uneasy?
I do think about it on the escalators
DM
2006-05-29 20:51:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark B
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Mark B
I'm not sure I'd be keen to travel on that unit - despite my gothness
I'd feel uneasy knowing I could be sitting in the place where someone died
Do you feel the same if driven along a bit of road where someone has
died? What about the bit of M1 alongside the East Midlands Airport crash?
Do the escalators at Kings Cross make you feel uneasy?
I do think about it on the escalators
I would be rather disturbed if someone was keen to travel on a particular
unit where a murder had taken place however I suspect the vast majority of
people are more willing to get on with life rather than worry about macarbe
thoughts of whether someone died in a particularly horrible way in a
particular seat.

Do you feel uneasy when travelling on Piccadily or Circle line trains? Or do
you avoid certain fGW or GNER carriages?
Andy Kirkham
2006-05-30 10:07:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by AW
There has apparently been a fatal stabbing on a southbound Voyager in
the Penrith/Oxenholme area. Police attending at Oxenholme.
<http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_bulletins/today.html>
Only a strapline on the BBC news site at the time of writing.
AW
Railnews has the headline "PASSENGER KILLED IN KNIFE FIGHT.."
(http://www.railnews.co.uk/news.aspx?id=2663), which suggests that both
victim and perpetrator were wielding knives. Is there any confirmation
of this?

Andy
k***@holdthefrontpage.co.uk
2006-05-30 10:25:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Kirkham
Railnews has the headline "PASSENGER KILLED IN KNIFE FIGHT.."
(http://www.railnews.co.uk/news.aspx?id=2663), which suggests that both
victim and perpetrator were wielding knives. Is there any confirmation
of this?
Various reports have suggested that the victim went to the aid of a
female. Some reports suggest that the female was in the company of the
alleged perpetrator, and that they were arguing. One report stated
that the police refused to confirm or deny that the couple had children
with them.

I've seen no reports suggesting that more than one knife was involved.
Roland Perry
2006-05-30 10:20:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Kirkham
Railnews has the headline "PASSENGER KILLED IN KNIFE FIGHT.."
(http://www.railnews.co.uk/news.aspx?id=2663), which suggests that both
victim and perpetrator were wielding knives. Is there any confirmation
of this?
I'm not sure I'd read that into it, but there's the question of how the
guard got 50 people out of the carriage, leaving behind just the
knife-man, and locked him in. How likely is that to have happened, if
either the knifeman wasn't also incapacitated in some way, or there was
a "weapon" of some kind used to keep him at bay?
--
Roland Perry
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