Discussion:
Catesby Tunnel: Legal access, and its condition
(too old to reply)
TheOneKEA
2004-11-12 16:43:35 UTC
Permalink
I just recently acquired a copy of Mac Hawkins' "The Great Central:
Then and Now" (excellent book!) and while I was reading the section on
Catesby Tunnel, I remembered the various threads on this NG about
folks who had walked it.

I'm curious as to whether or not it is considered an offence to enter,
walk through and exit the tunnel these days - if not for legal
reasons, then for structural reasons; the drains in the six-foot are
mentioned.

If it is not an offence, has anyone walked through it recently? Map 25
of the Central Railways route shows the line running straight through
Catesby Tunnel; I am curious if any of CR's engineers have recently
given the tunnel a bit of a scrub - or at least covered up the
drains...
RIMIllsPES
2004-11-12 21:35:49 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Catesby Tunnel: Legal access, and its condition
Date: 12/11/2004 16:43 GMT Standard Time
Then and Now" (excellent book!) and while I was reading the section on
Catesby Tunnel, I remembered the various threads on this NG about
folks who had walked it.
I'm curious as to whether or not it is considered an offence to enter,
walk through and exit the tunnel these days - if not for legal
reasons, then for structural reasons; the drains in the six-foot are
mentioned.
If it is not an offence, has anyone walked through it recently? Map 25
of the Central Railways route shows the line running straight through
Catesby Tunnel; I am curious if any of CR's engineers have recently
given the tunnel a bit of a scrub - or at least covered up the
drains...
If you are thinking of trying this, buy a wet suit. I walked through Catesby
in the driest summer on record - and still had to wade through a good bit of
it! I don't know about more recent experiences.


Bob
MartinM
2004-11-12 21:47:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheOneKEA
Then and Now" (excellent book!) and while I was reading the section on
Catesby Tunnel, I remembered the various threads on this NG about
folks who had walked it.
I'm curious as to whether or not it is considered an offence to enter,
walk through and exit the tunnel these days - if not for legal
reasons, then for structural reasons; the drains in the six-foot are
mentioned.
If it is not an offence, has anyone walked through it recently? Map 25
of the Central Railways route shows the line running straight through
Catesby Tunnel; I am curious if any of CR's engineers have recently
given the tunnel a bit of a scrub - or at least covered up the
drains...
Yes I did 2 years ago; there are signs saying dangerous structure but IIRC
that was after a horse and rider fell into one of the culverts (just before
it was gated), it was a foot deep at the N end but bone dry otherwise,
although a few large puddles.
Nigel
2004-11-14 17:21:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheOneKEA
Then and Now" (excellent book!) and while I was reading the section on
Catesby Tunnel, I remembered the various threads on this NG about
folks who had walked it.
I'm curious as to whether or not it is considered an offence to enter,
walk through and exit the tunnel these days - if not for legal
reasons, then for structural reasons; the drains in the six-foot are
mentioned.
If it is not an offence, has anyone walked through it recently? Map 25
of the Central Railways route shows the line running straight through
Catesby Tunnel; I am curious if any of CR's engineers have recently
given the tunnel a bit of a scrub - or at least covered up the
drains...
I've recently walked through Catesby and found it reasonably safe.
Indeed there are many uncovered deep drains though these are all
located along the centre-line of the tunnel. If you keep to the left
or right of the centre line then these will be avoided.

There is some water ingress but only found gernerally around the
ventilation shafts. The tunnel is lined with blue engineering bricks
and is 26-ft in dimension..

This is not a deep tunnel and it’s a little hard to understand why it
was needed at all. Looking up one of the ventillation shafts from
the inside and then comparing the amount of shaft brickwork
protruding above the ground, gives the impression the tunnel is only
a little way under the surface of the ground it traverses. The tunnel
is dead straight and on entering, the other end appears as a mere
speck of light. One of the longest disused tunnels, walking through
one feels a tranquil, and peaceful presence inside.

The tunnel is still owned by The Rail Property Board.

Nigel
MartinM
2004-11-14 18:28:03 UTC
Permalink
This is not a deep tunnel and it's a little hard to understand why it
was needed at all.

IIRC it was built to prevent a cutting through the estate, as were
quite a few tunnels.

One of the longest disused tunnels, walking through
one feels a tranquil, and peaceful presence inside.

I could here people talking all the way through, but that was probably
the sound of water.
Chris Pelling
2004-11-15 00:30:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by MartinM
This is not a deep tunnel and it's a little hard to understand why it
was needed at all.
IIRC it was built to prevent a cutting through the estate, as were
quite a few tunnels.
I believe it was built so that the owners of Catesby House wouldn't be able
to see the railway from their residence.

Incidently, the tunnel and line were closed frequently towards the end of
the GCR operations so that the tunnel could be 'refurbished'. Very shortly
afterwards, it was closed completely.

Chris...


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Ronnie Clark
2004-11-17 00:27:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nigel
I've recently walked through Catesby and found it reasonably safe.
Indeed there are many uncovered deep drains though these are all
located along the centre-line of the tunnel. If you keep to the left
or right of the centre line then these will be avoided.
There is some water ingress but only found gernerally around the
ventilation shafts. The tunnel is lined with blue engineering bricks
and is 26-ft in dimension..
This is not a deep tunnel and it’s a little hard to understand why it
was needed at all. Looking up one of the ventillation shafts from
the inside and then comparing the amount of shaft brickwork
protruding above the ground, gives the impression the tunnel is only
a little way under the surface of the ground it traverses. The tunnel
is dead straight and on entering, the other end appears as a mere
speck of light. One of the longest disused tunnels, walking through
one feels a tranquil, and peaceful presence inside.
The tunnel is still owned by The Rail Property Board.
I'd be interested to know from anyone generally around the more southerly
reaches of the old GC formation to know how much is still left. From Mac
Hawkins' "Great Central - Then And Now", it appeared to be generally left
alone with several station platforms remaining.

Up north, even when Mac Hawkins' book was published, it was altogether a
different story. On Saturday, after deciding it was too cold to do further
work at one of the preserved stations, I went up to Nottingham to see if I
could find any traces north of Nottingham Victoria. With Carrington Station
now being completely redeveloped as a college being built above the
filled-in pit (with just a few top edges of walls poking above the ground)
and New Basford just a dim and distant ghost of the garage now on its site,
I don't think I'll bother looking for anything at all further north. At
least I had the pleasure of finding the top two feet of Sherwood Rise tunnel
mouth at the Basford end, though.

Ronnie
--
Volunteer guard on the Great Central Railway, Loughborough, Leicestershire
Visit the world's only double track preserved steam railway!
http://www.gcrailway.co.uk
Jason Lupton
2004-11-17 17:14:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ronnie Clark
I don't think I'll bother looking for anything at all further north. At
least I had the pleasure of finding the top two feet of Sherwood Rise tunnel
mouth at the Basford end, though.
Ronnie
I live near Annesley. Of the massive shed and yards that were there, there
is one remaining bridge which spans the road from Newstead to the Abbey. The
rest is buried under tons of colliery waste. Its just possible to make out
the cutting above the South entrance of Annesley tunnel which runs
underneath the tunnel that now carries the Robin Hood line. The north
entrance is now underneath the Robin Hood line at Grives Lane AHB and the
cutting of the Great Central has been filled to turn it into an embankment
to carry the Robin Hood line again. There really is very little sign of the
GC now I'm afraid. Much like the collieries it served though Annesley
Colliery buildings are still standing.
Post by Ronnie Clark
--
Volunteer guard on the Great Central Railway, Loughborough, Leicestershire
Visit the world's only double track preserved steam railway!
http://www.gcrailway.co.uk
Ralph Rawlinson
2004-11-17 17:40:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ronnie Clark
I'd be interested to know from anyone generally around the more
southerly reaches of the old GC formation to know how much is still
left. From Mac Hawkins' "Great Central - Then And Now", it appeared
to be generally left alone with several station platforms remaining.
Up north, even when Mac Hawkins' book was published, it was
altogether a different story. On Saturday, after deciding it was too
cold to do further work at one of the preserved stations, I went up
to Nottingham to see if I could find any traces north of Nottingham
Victoria. With Carrington Station now being completely redeveloped as
a college being built above the filled-in pit (with just a few top
edges of walls poking above the ground) and New Basford just a dim
and distant ghost of the garage now on its site, I don't think I'll
bother looking for anything at all further north. At least I had the
pleasure of finding the top two feet of Sherwood Rise tunnel mouth at
the Basford end, though.
Ronnie
By subscribing to ***@yahoogroups.com
you can read a seven-part posting of the disused sections the
GCR Main line. I submitted the following between 30 January and
27 February 2004:
Pt 1 Hadfield - Dunford Bridge
Pt 2 Dunford Bridge - Deepcar
Pt 3 Woodhouse - Annesley
Pt 4 Annesley - Nottingham
Pt 5 Nottingham - Loughborough
Pt 6 Loughborough - Rugby
Pt 7 Rugby - Calvert
On the same site will be found my eleven-part posting on the M&GN
Little Bytham/Peterborough - Yarmouth and branches plus an early
closure series that commences with the Surrey Iron Railway.

Ralph
David Splett
2004-11-17 18:53:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ronnie Clark
I'd be interested to know from anyone generally around the more southerly
reaches of the old GC formation to know how much is still left. From Mac
Hawkins' "Great Central - Then And Now", it appeared to be generally left
alone with several station platforms remaining.
I've recently spent some time exploring the London end of the GC, and my
general impression is that little has changed since the book was published.
South of Rugby Central, the only stations to be totally obliterated are
Culworth and the two halts on the Banbury branch - all the others survive to
varying degrees. Most bridges and earthworks are still intact, and the
trackbed remains fairly clear.
Ronnie Clark
2004-11-18 00:34:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Splett
Post by Ronnie Clark
I'd be interested to know from anyone generally around the more southerly
reaches of the old GC formation to know how much is still left. From Mac
Hawkins' "Great Central - Then And Now", it appeared to be generally left
alone with several station platforms remaining.
I've recently spent some time exploring the London end of the GC, and my
general impression is that little has changed since the book was published.
South of Rugby Central, the only stations to be totally obliterated are
Culworth and the two halts on the Banbury branch - all the others survive to
varying degrees. Most bridges and earthworks are still intact, and the
trackbed remains fairly clear.
Ah, pleasant news! Dare I ask of the state of viaducts? I know Bracklet
viaduct was taken down a long time ago, but what of others, like Helmdon,
Catesby etc.?

Any chance of any photos? I'd be more than willing to put up a load of mine
(Nottingham-Rugby) in exchange.

Ronnie
--
Volunteer guard on the Great Central Railway, Loughborough, Leicestershire
Visit the world's only double track preserved steam railway!
http://www.gcrailway.co.uk
TheOneKEA
2004-11-18 09:28:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ronnie Clark
Post by David Splett
I've recently spent some time exploring the London end of the GC, and my
general impression is that little has changed since the book was published.
South of Rugby Central, the only stations to be totally obliterated are
Culworth and the two halts on the Banbury branch - all the others survive
to
Post by David Splett
varying degrees. Most bridges and earthworks are still intact, and the
trackbed remains fairly clear.
Ah, pleasant news! Dare I ask of the state of viaducts? I know Bracklet
viaduct was taken down a long time ago, but what of others, like Helmdon,
Catesby etc.?
I'd be very interested in hearing about this too - Mac Hawkins' book
states that the spray-can brigade (even in 1990!) had been busy
knocking coping stones off of the various viaducts (ISTR that Helmdon
was intact).

Someday I'll get up into that area; I'd like to see Rugby Central and
Catesby sometime...
Post by Ronnie Clark
Any chance of any photos? I'd be more than willing to put up a load of mine
(Nottingham-Rugby) in exchange.
I'd like to know if the GC alignment south of Leicester is only
surface-obliterated; if it's not, then if CR can prove themselves,
perhaps they can be persuaded to build a spur to Leicester Central and
reopen it...

and then sell it to the GCR ;-)
Ronnie Clark
2004-11-18 20:54:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheOneKEA
Post by Ronnie Clark
Ah, pleasant news! Dare I ask of the state of viaducts? I know Bracklet
viaduct was taken down a long time ago, but what of others, like Helmdon,
Catesby etc.?
I'd be very interested in hearing about this too - Mac Hawkins' book
states that the spray-can brigade (even in 1990!) had been busy
knocking coping stones off of the various viaducts (ISTR that Helmdon
was intact).
I can't speak for the areas south of Rugby, but the River Sence viaduct
(structure 395) between Blaby and Whetstone is remarkably intact, with
minimal damage and missing coping stones (although a large hole has been
pushed through at one point). One irony with this viaduct is that on the
inside of the parapets there is an absolute proliferation of graffitti -
which consequently has prevented the erosion of mortar and so kept the
parapets in a good state.

The River Biam viaduct (384) is also in a very good condition, as it is
retained as part of the Great Central Walk, running south from Leicester.
Coping stones have been removed, and the parapet wall has been built up
higher than originally in places.

The south viaducts through Leicester (374) are also in good condition, with
the exception of the girder bridge at Braunstone Gate.

Indeed, of the remaining GCR viaducts I've seen, the one in the worst state
is probably Stanford Viaduct (318) over the river Soar, just north of
Leicester and now a part of the GCR(N). Looks like BR were slightly worse at
looking after the structures than mother nature :)
Post by TheOneKEA
Someday I'll get up into that area; I'd like to see Rugby Central and
Catesby sometime...
I can provide some photos, if you wish, from Nottingham down to Rugby. It's
a complete record as far as Ashby Magna (the limit of my cycling distance
when I lived in Loughborough!), with only limited photos from Lutterworth
and Rugby. Hopefully now the trees are bare I can persuade someone to give
me a lift further afield and get some more photos.
Post by TheOneKEA
Post by Ronnie Clark
Any chance of any photos? I'd be more than willing to put up a load of mine
(Nottingham-Rugby) in exchange.
I'd like to know if the GC alignment south of Leicester is only
surface-obliterated; if it's not, then if CR can prove themselves,
perhaps they can be persuaded to build a spur to Leicester Central and
reopen it...
Basically, the formation is pretty much intact from Leicester Central as far
as Rugby Central. I've been no further south than that, though David Splett
said that not much has changed since "Then and Now" was done.

Notable exceptions are:

Leicester Central (374) to Braunstone gate (still 374), about 300 yards
totally redeveloped.

Starting at overbridge 379, which takes the MR over the GCR formation, there
is infilling of the cutting. Bridges have been left standing, but the
cutting has been filled in, leaving Parapets jutting above the ground. A
small industrial unit has been built on the line between 379 and 380, but
other than that the infilled formation is clear. The GCR left the cutting
just south of bridge 382 and emerges from the in-filling. This all forms
part of the "Great Central Walk" (or is it "Way"? Cannae remember).

The formation becomes indistinct again at Blaby, where a combination of
filling and redevelopment make it hard to trace the formation for about 300
yards between bridge 389 (which I couldn't find) and bridge 393 (span
missing, but footings still there).

At Whetstone, immediately south of bridge 396 over the Nuneaton-Leicester
line, a commercial estate has redeveloped where the embankment used to be,
but on the other side of the road from the estate the embankment remains as
far as the site of Whetstone station.

At Whetstone station, a housing estate has been put on the re-landscaped
embankment , the road slowly sloping up to reach track level. At the
southern end, the broadening of the formation at the station approach is
still very visible.

Beyond Whestone, the formation is intact again down to Cosby (except for
bridge 400, where the span has been removed but abutments remain). This
includes the M1 bridge, although access onto this bridge is difficult.

The span and southern abutment over Cambridge Road (402) at Cosby have been
removed.

There is then a long stretch intact down to bridge 412, where just the span
has been removed (Bridge 410 was closed before the M1 was built). It should
be noted, though, that between 407 and 411 there is intermittent infilling.

413 was Ashby Magna station (bit of a misnomer if you ask me, seeing as it
is much closer to Dunton Bassett), which has not quite been completely
obliterated. The bridge is back-filled, the goods yard is now the M1 and
there is now a timber merchant on the land south of the station, but there
are plenty of remains here.

414 was as far as I went by bike - Dunton Basset tunnel. It's still in good
condition, but rather over-grown.

As far as I can tell without making a detailed journey, it's the same story
as far as Rugby - bits missing, other bits partly redeveloped, bit of
infilling, etc., but essentially still intact. Lutterworth station is a
problem, as it is now a housing estate on the flat land left by the station
and goods yard, although the actual station bridge itself is still there and
intact.

Rugby Central (and the surrounding areas are well preserved, being a part of
Rugby's "Great Central Walk". The station platform itself is well kept, with
a wildlife pond now on the down side where the track used to be.

I may fulfil a double goal and go down to Rugby soon. I can try and video
the last of the loco-hauled on the WCML, as well as go a bit further south
on the GC. Bike on stand-by.

Ronnie
--
Volunteer guard on the Great Central Railway, Loughborough, Leicestershire
Visit the world's only double track preserved steam railway!
http://www.gcrailway.co.uk
Mark Annand
2004-11-23 19:57:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Splett
I've recently spent some time exploring the London end of the GC, and my
general impression is that little has changed since the book was published.
South of Rugby Central, the only stations to be totally obliterated are
Culworth and the two halts on the Banbury branch - all the others survive to
varying degrees. Most bridges and earthworks are still intact, and the
trackbed remains fairly clear.
And still to be found on the Chiltern Railways web site is a factsheet
outlining some healthy expansion plans, including the following (I asked
the web site and there was a minute's hesitation on these as though it
had had to fetch them from a filing cabinet):

"The Great Central Railway - Looking further ahead (and unrelated to the
Central Railway freight proposal) we envisage the re-opening of the
railway north from Aylesbury for passengers to a major parkway station
on the M1 and M6 in Leicestershire, and to Leicester itself."

With the Midland line both growing fast, and stuffed into four platforms
at St Pancras, there's an idea whose time has come.

http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/pages/misc/factsheet.html

Here's the map, titled 'Major projects to be developed':

http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/pages/misc/map01.asp

Come 2004 and the SRA has its head in the branches, while is it true
that the DfT is still missing a vital role or three with regards to the
industry?
David Splett
2004-12-06 19:50:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheOneKEA
If it is not an offence, has anyone walked through it recently? Map 25
of the Central Railways route shows the line running straight through
Catesby Tunnel; I am curious if any of CR's engineers have recently
given the tunnel a bit of a scrub - or at least covered up the
drains...
I paid a brief visit to Catesby Tunnel last week. It's accessible at the
southern end (at least), and there's nothing to tell you you're not supposed
to go in there. There is a grille across the whole portal, but with a large
hinged door in the middle that was open on both of my last two visits, and
showed no signs of any securing device having been broken off.

To get there from the A361, turn left/right into the westbound minor road
just north of Charwelton village, signposted towards Hellidon and Priors
Marston. Park in the muddy lay-by just after you go over the bridge, and
turn right into the Bridleway nearly opposite the lay-by. After a little
way, cross over the wooden bridge over the stream; once you have done this
you can either turn left along the bridlepath that runs along the top of the
cutting (muddy) or turn left along the railway cutting (only a couple of
feet down at this point and easy to walk for the first bit, but very muddy
and waterlogged as you get near the tunnel). It's about 600yds to the
tunnel; if you go along the bridlepath you can easily get down into the
cutting at the portal.

Inside, the tunnel is remarkably dry, apart from copious quantities of water
dripping from the airshafts. The drains are all in the middle of the tunnel
(between the tracks), and are spaced approximately every 100yds. They are
3-4ft deep, and most have a couple of inches of water in them; falling in to
one would not be fatal, but it wouldn't be too easy to get out. I wouldn't
recommend walking this tunnel without a torch, but apart from that you
shouldn't have a problem. The only other hazard is that the ground inside is
quite uneven, and there are odd loose brick etc. which you can trip over.
There are occasional puddles, but water really isn't a problem once you get
inside.

I've no idea what the situation currently is at the northern end, but if it
is open you shouldn't have too much difficulty getting out of the cutting
and onto a footpath that runs nearby (IIRC).

Note that I only walked to a point about 800yds from the southern portal on
my most recent visit, so I've no idea what the situation is beyond that. I
walked the entire tunnel about a year ago, and experienced nothing different
from what I've written above.

Hope this is helpful!

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