Discussion:
Unusual suicide on a high speed railway line
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Recliner
2024-12-27 07:24:15 UTC
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Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train

https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-a9c5b1bfab60?shareToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Clank
2024-12-27 08:24:29 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-a9c5b1bfab60?
shareToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2

I'm going to wager that the TGV's vigilance system is not, in fact,
specified in yards...

Somewhat amusing that The Times feels the need to translate into obsolete
units for its readership to understand. (Speaking as a subscriber, I
hasten to add - albeit one who increasingly frequently wonders *why* he is
a subscriber.)
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2024-12-27 16:39:55 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-a9c5b1bfab60?
shareToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
I'm going to wager that the TGV's vigilance system is not, in fact,
specified in yards...
Somewhat amusing that The Times feels the need to translate into obsolete
units for its readership to understand. (Speaking as a subscriber, I
hasten to add - albeit one who increasingly frequently wonders *why* he is
a subscriber.)
I would expect that, like the UK version, it's actually specified in
seconds.
Roland Perry
2024-12-27 08:41:54 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
--
Roland Perry
Coffee
2024-12-27 09:27:25 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
UK trains do.

The heritage DMUs even had one on the non-drivers side for use during a
token exchange on that side.
Graeme Wall
2024-12-27 09:35:28 UTC
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Post by Coffee
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
UK trains do.
The heritage DMUs even had one on the non-drivers side for use during a
token exchange on that side.
It's just Roland being silly.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2024-12-27 10:38:46 UTC
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Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Coffee
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
UK trains do.
The heritage DMUs even had one on the non-drivers side for use
during a token exchange on that side.
It's just Roland being silly.
Why is it silly to point out an MSM article is an emperor with no
clothes?
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2024-12-27 11:37:52 UTC
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Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
 UK trains do.
 The heritage DMUs even had one on the non-drivers side for use
during a  token exchange on that side.
It's just Roland being silly.
Why is it silly to point out an MSM article is an emperor with no clothes?
Because it has been that way for decades, nobody sensible takes the
slightest bit of notice.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Tweed
2024-12-27 12:07:03 UTC
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Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
 UK trains do.
 The heritage DMUs even had one on the non-drivers side for use
during a  token exchange on that side.
It's just Roland being silly.
Why is it silly to point out an MSM article is an emperor with no clothes?
Because it has been that way for decades, nobody sensible takes the
slightest bit of notice.
I think it has got a lot worse in recent years. The Times seems to have
suffered a lot of cost cutting. They have one or two decent journalists and
then an increasing number of scribblers who seem no better than the average
sixth form student.
Coffee
2024-12-27 11:16:30 UTC
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Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Coffee
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-
a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
UK trains do.
The heritage DMUs even had one on the non-drivers side for use during
a token exchange on that side.
It's just Roland being silly.
The trouble is that some of his inaccurate statements have to be
challenged otherwise some ignorant people will believe them.
Roland Perry
2024-12-27 12:15:15 UTC
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Post by Coffee
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Coffee
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-
a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
UK trains do.
The heritage DMUs even had one on the non-drivers side for use
during a token exchange on that side.
It's just Roland being silly.
The trouble is that some of his inaccurate statements have to be
challenged otherwise some ignorant people will believe them.
Name one! (Inaccurate statement, not ignorant person).
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2024-12-27 13:01:51 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
Post by Coffee
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-
a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
UK trains do.
The heritage DMUs even had one on the non-drivers side for use
during  a token exchange on that side.
 It's just Roland being silly.
The trouble is that some of his inaccurate statements have to be
challenged otherwise some ignorant people will believe them.
Name one! (Inaccurate statement, not ignorant person).
The implication of your silly comment is that some trains don't have
such devices. People unacquainted with your predilection for starting a
fight at the drop of hat may think you were serious.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2024-12-27 16:05:14 UTC
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Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
Post by Coffee
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-
a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
UK trains do.
The heritage DMUs even had one on the non-drivers side for use
during  a token exchange on that side.
 It's just Roland being silly.
The trouble is that some of his inaccurate statements have to be
challenged otherwise some ignorant people will believe them.
Name one! (Inaccurate statement, not ignorant person).
The implication of your silly comment is that some trains don't have
such devices. People unacquainted with your predilection for starting a
fight at the drop of hat may think you were serious.
Your sense of humour is so broken, I don't know where to start!
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2024-12-27 10:38:02 UTC
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Post by Coffee
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
UK trains do.
No shit, Sherlock!
Post by Coffee
The heritage DMUs even had one on the non-drivers side for use during a
token exchange on that side.
--
Roland Perry
ColinR
2024-12-27 14:21:13 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-
a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
 Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance
devices.
UK trains do.
No shit, Sherlock!
Then why make your inane comment "if only all trains had such vigilance
devices" in uk.railway???????? Emphasis on UK.
--
Colin
Roland Perry
2024-12-27 16:06:14 UTC
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Post by ColinR
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-
a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
 Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance
devices.
UK trains do.
No shit, Sherlock!
Then why make your inane comment "if only all trains had such vigilance
devices" in uk.railway???????? Emphasis on UK.
And now someone whose sarcasm detector is broken.
--
Roland Perry
Rolf Mantel
2024-12-27 22:57:45 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
In Germany, all trains have such vigilance devices, and I'd be very
surprised if this were different on British trains.
Marland
2024-12-27 23:27:39 UTC
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Post by Rolf Mantel
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
In Germany, all trains have such vigilance devices, and I'd be very
surprised if this were different on British trains.
TBH in this instance it was reasonably obvious that Roland was being
sarcastic about the news article
which seemed it was trying to single out that TGVs had such a device and
could easily have informed
their readers that it was fairly standard fit on most trains in developed
countries though the form may differ ,but that would go against the general
anti UK rail sentiment that pervades the UK press.
They could even have pointed out that some of the first steps on British
Main lines occurred with the GWR as far back as 1906.

GH
Roland Perry
2024-12-28 06:39:11 UTC
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Post by Marland
Post by Rolf Mantel
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
In Germany, all trains have such vigilance devices, and I'd be very
surprised if this were different on British trains.
TBH in this instance it was reasonably obvious that Roland was being
sarcastic about the news article which seemed it was trying to single
out that TGVs had such a device
The classic form of words would have been:

"We should fit vigilance devices on all trains. Oh Wait!"

But I was being a bit more subtle.
Post by Marland
and could easily have informed their readers that it was fairly
standard fit on most trains in developed countries though the form may
differ ,but that would go against the general anti UK rail sentiment
that pervades the UK press.
They could even have pointed out that some of the first steps on British
Main lines occurred with the GWR as far back as 1906.
GH
--
Roland Perry
ColinR
2024-12-28 11:29:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Rolf Mantel
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-
a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
In Germany, all trains have such vigilance devices, and I'd be very
surprised if this were different on British trains.
TBH in this instance it was reasonably obvious that Roland was being
sarcastic about the news article which seemed it was trying to single
out that TGVs had such a device
  "We should fit vigilance devices on all trains. Oh Wait!"
But I was being a bit more subtle.
Going by reactions, maybe TOO subtle!
Post by Marland
and could easily have informed their readers that it was fairly
standard fit on most trains in developed countries though the form may
differ ,but that would go against the general anti UK rail sentiment
that pervades  the UK press.
They could even have pointed out that some of the first steps on British
Main lines occurred with the GWR as far back as 1906.
GH
--
Colin
Roland Perry
2024-12-28 12:33:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ColinR
Post by Marland
TBH in this instance it was reasonably obvious that Roland was being
sarcastic about the news article which seemed it was trying to single
out that TGVs had such a device
  "We should fit vigilance devices on all trains. Oh Wait!"
But I was being a bit more subtle.
Going by reactions, maybe TOO subtle!
After 25+ years here, I would hope that some people had tuned into my
sense of humour.
--
Roland Perry
Coffee
2024-12-28 13:43:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by ColinR
Post by Marland
TBH in this instance it was reasonably obvious that Roland was being
sarcastic about the news article which seemed it was trying to
single out that TGVs had such a device
    "We should fit vigilance devices on all trains. Oh Wait!"
 But I was being a bit more subtle.
Going by reactions, maybe TOO subtle!
After 25+ years here, I would hope that some people had tuned into my
sense of humour.
You need to learn when humour is not appropriate and how not to make it
too subtle when written which is much harder than when spoken.
Roland Perry
2024-12-28 15:03:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Coffee
Post by Roland Perry
Post by ColinR
Post by Marland
TBH in this instance it was reasonably obvious that Roland was
being sarcastic about the news article which seemed it was trying
to single out that TGVs had such a device
    "We should fit vigilance devices on all trains. Oh Wait!"
 But I was being a bit more subtle.
Going by reactions, maybe TOO subtle!
After 25+ years here, I would hope that some people had tuned into
my sense of humour.
You need to learn when humour is not appropriate and how not to make it
too subtle when written which is much harder than when spoken.
<shrug> I'm writing for an only borderline autistic audience.
--
Roland Perry
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-12-28 15:15:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 15:03:18 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
Post by Roland Perry
Post by ColinR
Post by Marland
TBH in this instance it was reasonably obvious that Roland was
being sarcastic about the news article which seemed it was trying
to single out that TGVs had such a device
    "We should fit vigilance devices on all trains. Oh Wait!"
 But I was being a bit more subtle.
Going by reactions, maybe TOO subtle!
After 25+ years here, I would hope that some people had tuned into
my sense of humour.
You need to learn when humour is not appropriate and how not to make it
too subtle when written which is much harder than when spoken.
<shrug> I'm writing for an only borderline autistic audience.
Your mirror clearly isn't getting much use.
Roland Perry
2024-12-28 15:30:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 15:03:18 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
Post by Roland Perry
Post by ColinR
Post by Marland
TBH in this instance it was reasonably obvious that Roland was
being sarcastic about the news article which seemed it was
trying to single out that TGVs had such a device
    "We should fit vigilance devices on all trains. Oh Wait!"
 But I was being a bit more subtle.
Going by reactions, maybe TOO subtle!
After 25+ years here, I would hope that some people had tuned into
my sense of humour.
You need to learn when humour is not appropriate and how not to make
it too subtle when written which is much harder than when spoken.
<shrug> I'm writing for an only borderline autistic audience.
Your mirror clearly isn't getting much use.
More use than yours.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2024-12-28 17:36:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 15:03:18 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
Post by Roland Perry
Post by ColinR
Post by Marland
TBH in this instance it was reasonably obvious that Roland was
being sarcastic about the news article which seemed it was
trying to single out that TGVs had such a device
    "We should fit vigilance devices on all trains. Oh Wait!"
 But I was being a bit more subtle.
Going by reactions, maybe TOO subtle!
After 25+ years here, I would hope that some people had tuned
into my sense of humour.
You need to learn when humour is not appropriate and how not to make
it too subtle when written which is much harder than when spoken.
<shrug> I'm writing for an only borderline autistic audience.
Your mirror clearly isn't getting much use.
More use than yours.
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
--
Roland Perry
Sam Wilson
2024-12-28 19:34:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 15:03:18 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Coffee
Post by Roland Perry
Post by ColinR
Post by Marland
TBH in this instance it was reasonably obvious that Roland was
being sarcastic about the news article which seemed it was
trying to single out that TGVs had such a device
    "We should fit vigilance devices on all trains. Oh Wait!"
 But I was being a bit more subtle.
Going by reactions, maybe TOO subtle!
After 25+ years here, I would hope that some people had tuned
into my sense of humour.
You need to learn when humour is not appropriate and how not to make
it too subtle when written which is much harder than when spoken.
<shrug> I'm writing for an only borderline autistic audience.
Your mirror clearly isn't getting much use.
More use than yours.
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. Are you sure you’re OK?

Sam
--
The entity formerly known as ***@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-12-29 09:48:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. Are you sure you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around for decades.
Roland Perry
2024-12-29 10:00:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. Are you sure you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.

It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation* of
the technology.

Banknotes are really old, mature, technology, and have been accepted in
payment for goods and services for generations. That doesn't mean it
would be cheap/easy/desirable to fit all EV chargers with banknote
readers.

ObRail: Indeed, the only vending machines I can think of which routinely
accept banknotes are railway TVMs. So it can be done.
--
Roland Perry
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-12-29 10:40:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. Are you sure you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation* of
the technology.
Solved problem.
Roland Perry
2024-12-29 13:38:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. Are you sure you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation* of
the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market trader
gadget duck-taped on the side?
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2024-12-29 15:15:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you sure
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation* of
the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market trader
gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2024-12-29 16:32:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you sure
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around
for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation*
of the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
--
Roland Perry
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-12-29 16:54:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you sure
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around
for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation*
of the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did. But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved
the goalposts now anyway.
Roland Perry
2024-12-29 17:03:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around
for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win ^H^H^H
lose argument.
--
Roland Perry
Tweed
2024-12-29 17:28:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around
for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win ^H^H^H
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Roland Perry
2024-12-29 18:51:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around
for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win ^H^H^H
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
--
Roland Perry
Tweed
2024-12-29 19:23:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around
for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself.
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win ^H^H^H
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm of major
retailers via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
Graeme Wall
2024-12-29 20:36:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around
for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself.
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win ^H^H^H
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm of major
retailers via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
Also, when it comes to public EV chargers, it's a legal requirement.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2024-12-30 07:53:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around
for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself.
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win ^H^H^H
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm of major
retailers via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
Also, when it comes to public EV chargers, it's a legal requirement.
New installations, yes. But it might be very challenging in some
environments to do this without huge expense.
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2024-12-30 13:10:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around
for  decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself.
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of  the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader  gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win ^H^H^H
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
 I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm of major
retailers via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
Also, when it comes to public EV chargers, it's a legal requirement.
New installations, yes. But it might be very challenging in some
environments to do this without huge expense.
In which case they won't get installed, end of problem.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2024-12-30 17:18:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around
for  decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself.
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of  the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader  gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
 I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm of major
retailers via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
Also, when it comes to public EV chargers, it's a legal requirement.
New installations, yes. But it might be very challenging in some
environments to do this without huge expense.
In which case they won't get installed, end of problem.
As I've said numerous times, there are many situations where for example
a woke councillor gets a motion passed which says "we MUST install
chargers at the Country Park".
--
Roland Perry
Tweed
2024-12-30 17:38:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been
around
for  decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself.
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of  the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader  gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
 I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm of major
retailers via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
Also, when it comes to public EV chargers, it's a legal requirement.
New installations, yes. But it might be very challenging in some
environments to do this without huge expense.
In which case they won't get installed, end of problem.
As I've said numerous times, there are many situations where for example
a woke councillor gets a motion passed which says "we MUST install
chargers at the Country Park".
Evidence?
Roland Perry
2024-12-31 06:58:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now.
As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been
around
for  decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself.
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of  the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader  gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
 I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm of major
retailers via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
Also, when it comes to public EV chargers, it's a legal requirement.
New installations, yes. But it might be very challenging in some
environments to do this without huge expense.
In which case they won't get installed, end of problem.
As I've said numerous times, there are many situations where for example
a woke councillor gets a motion passed which says "we MUST install
chargers at the Country Park".
Evidence?
Just look at your local authority's plans for carbon zero. There will
almost certainly be such aspirations.
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2024-12-30 17:39:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been
around
for  decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself.
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of  the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader  gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
 I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm of major
retailers via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
Also, when it comes to public EV chargers, it's a legal requirement.
 New installations, yes. But it might be very challenging in some
environments to do this without huge expense.
In which case they won't get installed, end of problem.
As I've said numerous times, there are many situations where for example
a woke councillor gets a motion passed which says "we MUST install
chargers at the Country Park".
Doesn't matter what your "woke" councillor says, if it can't comply with
the law, it won't get installed. I suspect if you checked the actual
wording it would include the weasel words "investigate the possibility
of" or similar.

I assume you are thinking of one particular example and trying to
stretch it to cover the whole of your threadbare argument.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2024-12-31 06:59:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Sun, 29 Dec
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats
for  decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of  the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader  gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder
could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge
points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same
equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man".
You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
 I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm
major
retailers via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
Also, when it comes to public EV chargers, it's a legal requirement.
 New installations, yes. But it might be very challenging in some
environments to do this without huge expense.
In which case they won't get installed, end of problem.
As I've said numerous times, there are many situations where for
example a woke councillor gets a motion passed which says "we MUST
install chargers at the Country Park".
Doesn't matter what your "woke" councillor says, if it can't comply
with the law, it won't get installed. I suspect if you checked the
actual wording it would include the weasel words "investigate the
possibility of" or similar.
I assume you are thinking of one particular example and trying to
stretch it to cover the whole of your threadbare argument.
Desperately trying to wriggle out of the whole idea of the difficulty of
installing chargers in many locations, aren't you?
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2024-12-31 09:07:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Sun,  29 Dec
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are
you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats
for  decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of  the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader  gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder
could  take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge
points  to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same
equipment.  That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man".
You  can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
 I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm major
retailers via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
Also, when it comes to public EV chargers, it's a legal requirement.
 New installations, yes. But it might be very challenging in some
environments to do this without huge expense.
In which case they won't get installed, end of problem.
 As I've said numerous times, there are many situations where for
example  a woke councillor gets a motion passed which says "we MUST
install  chargers at the Country Park".
Doesn't matter what your "woke" councillor says, if it can't comply
with the law, it won't get installed. I suspect if you checked the
actual wording it would include the weasel words "investigate the
possibility of" or similar.
I assume you are thinking of one particular example and trying to
stretch it to cover the whole of your threadbare argument.
Desperately trying to wriggle out of the whole idea of the difficulty of
installing chargers in many locations, aren't you?
No but you are desperately trying to hang on to an increasingly
untenable argument.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2024-12-31 09:43:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Sun, 29 Dec
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. 
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats
for  decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of  the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a
market
trader  gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder
could  take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge
points  to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same
equipment.  That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall
man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man".
You  can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
 I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm major
retailers via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
Also, when it comes to public EV chargers, it's a legal requirement.
 New installations, yes. But it might be very challenging in
environments to do this without huge expense.
In which case they won't get installed, end of problem.
 As I've said numerous times, there are many situations where for
example  a woke councillor gets a motion passed which says "we MUST
install  chargers at the Country Park".
Doesn't matter what your "woke" councillor says, if it can't comply
with the law, it won't get installed. I suspect if you checked the
actual wording it would include the weasel words "investigate the
possibility of" or similar.
I assume you are thinking of one particular example and trying to
stretch it to cover the whole of your threadbare argument.
Desperately trying to wriggle out of the whole idea of the
difficulty of installing chargers in many locations, aren't you?
No but you are desperately trying to hang on to an increasingly
untenable argument.
The argument has never been untenable. Field deployment of card-based
vending apparatus is not about merchant service agreements, it's all
about hardware on the ground.
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2024-12-31 10:36:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Sun,  29 Dec
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here
suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats
for  decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of  the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a market
trader  gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder
could  take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge
points  to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same
equipment.  That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall
man"  is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man".
You  can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
 I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm major
retailers via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
Also, when it comes to public EV chargers, it's a legal
requirement.
 New installations, yes. But it might be very challenging in
environments to do this without huge expense.
In which case they won't get installed, end of problem.
 As I've said numerous times, there are many situations where for
example  a woke councillor gets a motion passed which says "we MUST
install  chargers at the Country Park".
Doesn't matter what your "woke" councillor says, if it can't comply
with the law, it won't get installed. I suspect if you checked the
actual wording it would include the weasel words "investigate the
possibility of" or similar.
I assume you are thinking of one particular example and trying to
stretch it to cover the whole of your threadbare argument.
 Desperately trying to wriggle out of the whole idea of the
difficulty of  installing chargers in many locations, aren't you?
No but you are desperately trying to hang on to an increasingly
untenable argument.
The argument has never been untenable. Field deployment of card-based
vending apparatus is not about merchant service agreements, it's all
about hardware on the ground.
Which you keep trying to claim is impossible despite it happening all
the time. All apparently based on one proposal to stick a charger in a
car park.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Marland
2024-12-30 17:47:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been
around
for  decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself.
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of  the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader  gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
 I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm of major
retailers via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
Also, when it comes to public EV chargers, it's a legal requirement.
New installations, yes. But it might be very challenging in some
environments to do this without huge expense.
In which case they won't get installed, end of problem.
As I've said numerous times, there are many situations where for example
a woke councillor gets a motion passed which says "we MUST install
chargers at the Country Park".
If there are that many you should be able to give us some actual examples,
not just of the motion being passed but the chargers installed,working and
complying with all the directives.

GH
Roland Perry
2024-12-31 07:00:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now.
As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been
around
for  decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself.
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of  the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader  gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
 I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm of major
retailers via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
Also, when it comes to public EV chargers, it's a legal requirement.
New installations, yes. But it might be very challenging in some
environments to do this without huge expense.
In which case they won't get installed, end of problem.
As I've said numerous times, there are many situations where for example
a woke councillor gets a motion passed which says "we MUST install
chargers at the Country Park".
If there are that many you should be able to give us some actual examples,
not just of the motion being passed but the chargers installed,working and
complying with all the directives.
New out-of-town leisure centre on A10.
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2024-12-31 09:09:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are
you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now.
As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been
around
for  decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of
yourself.
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of  the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader  gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
 I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm of major
retailers via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
Also, when it comes to public EV chargers, it's a legal requirement.
New installations, yes. But it might be very challenging in some
environments to do this without huge expense.
In which case they won't get installed, end of problem.
As I've said numerous times, there are many situations where for example
a woke councillor gets a motion passed which says "we MUST install
chargers at the Country Park".
If there are that many you should be able to give us some actual examples,
not just of the motion being passed but the chargers installed,working and
complying with all the directives.
New out-of-town leisure centre on A10.
So if thy are working and compliant, what are you moaning about?

A leisure centre sounds like a good place for them, people are going to
be staying there for an hour or more generally. And it will already have
power and comms.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2024-12-31 10:27:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Sun, 29 Dec
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
29 Dec
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. 
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now.
As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been
around
for  decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of  the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a
market
trader  gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall
man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
 I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm
of major
retailers via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
Also, when it comes to public EV chargers, it's a legal requirement.
New installations, yes. But it might be very challenging in some
environments to do this without huge expense.
In which case they won't get installed, end of problem.
As I've said numerous times, there are many situations where for example
a woke councillor gets a motion passed which says "we MUST install
chargers at the Country Park".
If there are that many you should be able to give us some actual examples,
not just of the motion being passed but the chargers
installed,working and
complying with all the directives.
New out-of-town leisure centre on A10.
So if thy are working and compliant, what are you moaning about?
The original arm-wavy suggestion from Muttley that it's trivial to do
because market traders can take credit cards on a £25 gadget.
Post by Graeme Wall
A leisure centre sounds like a good place for them, people are going to
be staying there for an hour or more generally. And it will already
have power and comms.
They had to dig about three miles from the nearest substation to get
power to the green-fields leisure centre, but the charger(s) also have
a substantial roadside cabinet. You are falling for the fallacy that
"anywhere with some power, has sufficient for any application".

The charger (a single 80kW, according to the app, although there were
two installed originally) is inside the gated car park for the leisure
centre, so is only open when the leisure centre is.

Presumably the leisure centre has full fibre connectivity, but the
charger(s) are 200ft from the main building.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2024-12-30 07:52:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around
for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself.
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win ^H^H^H
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm of major
retailers
I was a mom-and-pop retailer taking cards in the late 70's.
Post by Tweed
via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
You are still arguing about the availability of merchant services (and I
agree with what you say, although many solutions have eye-watering
commissions). And of course, acceptance of Amex is rotting away. I never
did get GTR to say whether or not they expected their TVMs** to accept
it contactless. ["Do your TVMs take contactless Amex", "We take major
credit cards", "Do you consider Amex to be a major credit card"
<silence>].

I'm discussing the way the hardware can be deployed in he field, which
is a completely different kettle of worms.

** This was when faced an example which didn't, but was this because the
hardware was broken in some way, or did they not implement it.
--
Roland Perry
Tweed
2024-12-30 08:55:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around
for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself.
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win ^H^H^H
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm of major
retailers
I was a mom-and-pop retailer taking cards in the late 70's.
Post by Tweed
via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
You are still arguing about the availability of merchant services (and I
agree with what you say, although many solutions have eye-watering
commissions). And of course, acceptance of Amex is rotting away. I never
did get GTR to say whether or not they expected their TVMs** to accept
it contactless. ["Do your TVMs take contactless Amex", "We take major
credit cards", "Do you consider Amex to be a major credit card"
<silence>].
I'm discussing the way the hardware can be deployed in he field, which
is a completely different kettle of worms.
** This was when faced an example which didn't, but was this because the
hardware was broken in some way, or did they not implement it.
Deploying card reader hardware in the field is a solved problem. It’s
solved in multiple ways these days. Your attempt to find obscure edge cases
is akin to stating that houses can’t have an electricity supply because a
remote farm isn’t connected to the grid.

As to mobile not spots, it must be strange out your way. The only place
I’ve not been able to receive a signal (other than obvious places such as
tunnels) of late has been a corner of Arran. Having a phone that can
connect to both Vodafone and EE does help though.

With reference to UK railways I’ve found that EE has accelerated away from
Vodafone in terms of performance. By this I mean that in major footfall
areas such as St Pancras, Vodafone offers a signal but no throughput, a
sign of heavy cell site congestion.
Roland Perry
2024-12-30 09:26:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around
for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself.
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win ^H^H^H
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm of major
retailers
I was a mom-and-pop retailer taking cards in the late 70's.
Post by Tweed
via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
You are still arguing about the availability of merchant services (and I
agree with what you say, although many solutions have eye-watering
commissions). And of course, acceptance of Amex is rotting away. I never
did get GTR to say whether or not they expected their TVMs** to accept
it contactless. ["Do your TVMs take contactless Amex", "We take major
credit cards", "Do you consider Amex to be a major credit card"
<silence>].
I'm discussing the way the hardware can be deployed in he field, which
is a completely different kettle of worms.
** This was when faced an example which didn't, but was this because the
hardware was broken in some way, or did they not implement it.
Deploying card reader hardware in the field is a solved problem. It’s
solved in multiple ways these days. Your attempt to find obscure edge cases
is akin to stating that houses can’t have an electricity supply because a
remote farm isn’t connected to the grid.
Sadly it's not a solved problem, because over and over again I see
deployments of (eg) EV Chargers which involve digging up hundreds of
yards of car park tarmac, and even then wait six months for the
electricity company to dig up the road outside to connect them up. A
typical place for such chargers is also the ground floor of multi-story
car parks, which far too often are mobile phone not-spots.
Post by Tweed
As to mobile not spots, it must be strange out your way.
Why? I get this problem *all* the time. It's not a fairly story that
outside my friend's house, three miles from the Cambridge Science Park,
there's no O2 signal. It's not a fairy story that in the Ship Lane Car
Park on the Ely riverside, there's no O2 signal. Local Facebook groups
have not-spots as a perennial topic of discussion.
Post by Tweed
The only place I’ve not been able to receive a signal (other than
obvious places such as tunnels) of late has been a corner of Arran.
Having a phone that can connect to both Vodafone and EE does help though.
In the sense of dual-SIM I suppose (although some such phones won't
auto-roam data between them, and only do voice on the other unless you
go into "Settings"). Then there's Wifi-calling which as long as your
phone, network and SIM *all* support it, comes to the rescue in
otherwise very dodgy locations.

Meanwhile, in East Cambs there's a mast sharing agreement between O2 and
Vodafone, so if you can't get one (either a shadow or downtime), you
probably can't get the other.
Post by Tweed
With reference to UK railways I’ve found that EE has accelerated away from
Vodafone in terms of performance. By this I mean that in major footfall
areas such as St Pancras, Vodafone offers a signal but no throughput, a
sign of heavy cell site congestion.
Or a sign it's been badly set up. There's absolutely no reason (see
"solved problem") to flood a place like St Pancras with Picocells, if
there's the demand for connectivity.

Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous time,
I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf while I
wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
--
Roland Perry
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-12-30 09:42:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous time,
I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf while I
wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G signal, thats
what its for. Talk about entitled.
Roland Perry
2024-12-30 17:44:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G signal, thats
what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
(b) Perhaps there's no in-building 4/5G signal (actually until a
couple of months ago there wasn't outside-building 5G either)
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2024-12-30 17:56:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G signal, thats
what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
You've found an NHS dentist?????
Post by Roland Perry
(b) Perhaps there's no in-building 4/5G signal (actually until a
    couple of months ago there wasn't outside-building 5G either)
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
ColinR
2024-12-30 18:00:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G signal, thats
what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
You've found an NHS dentist?????
Blimey, where? Where?
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
(b) Perhaps there's no in-building 4/5G signal (actually until a
     couple of months ago there wasn't outside-building 5G either)
--
Colin
Nobody
2024-12-30 19:21:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 17:56:06 +0000, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G signal, thats
what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
You've found an NHS dentist?????
Was wondering about that small detail... though Canada is rolling out
a no-direct-cost-to-patient scheme in stages contracted to a private
insurance company which dentists can bill in similar fashion to
employer provided dental benefits.

As for expecting wee-fee everywhere, do the $smart-phone$ set really
need to watch cat videos 25/8?
Tweed
2024-12-30 19:42:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nobody
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 17:56:06 +0000, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G signal, thats
what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
You've found an NHS dentist?????
Was wondering about that small detail... though Canada is rolling out
a no-direct-cost-to-patient scheme in stages contracted to a private
insurance company which dentists can bill in similar fashion to
employer provided dental benefits.
As for expecting wee-fee everywhere, do the $smart-phone$ set really
need to watch cat videos 25/8?
Roland seems to live in a different world to mine. I can’t remember the
last place where I was unable to use my cellular data to look things
up/read things. The need to use WiFi when out and about is reducing to the
point of never needing it.
Graeme Wall
2024-12-30 20:31:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tweed
Post by Nobody
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 17:56:06 +0000, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G signal, thats
what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
You've found an NHS dentist?????
Was wondering about that small detail... though Canada is rolling out
a no-direct-cost-to-patient scheme in stages contracted to a private
insurance company which dentists can bill in similar fashion to
employer provided dental benefits.
As for expecting wee-fee everywhere, do the $smart-phone$ set really
need to watch cat videos 25/8?
Roland seems to live in a different world to mine. I can’t remember the
last place where I was unable to use my cellular data to look things
up/read things. The need to use WiFi when out and about is reducing to the
point of never needing it.
As Roland has no doubt discovered, NHS hospitals is where you need it.
Indoors connectivity is often pretty poor which is why they spent a lot
of money providing massive wi-fi connectivity, usually around 7
different channels. The public channel is a sort of bonus feature added
to the necessary channels.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Charles Ellson
2024-12-30 22:30:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 19:42:51 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
Post by Nobody
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 17:56:06 +0000, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G signal, thats
what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
You've found an NHS dentist?????
Was wondering about that small detail... though Canada is rolling out
a no-direct-cost-to-patient scheme in stages contracted to a private
insurance company which dentists can bill in similar fashion to
employer provided dental benefits.
As for expecting wee-fee everywhere, do the $smart-phone$ set really
need to watch cat videos 25/8?
Roland seems to live in a different world to mine. I can’t remember the
last place where I was unable to use my cellular data to look things
up/read things. The need to use WiFi when out and about is reducing to the
point of never needing it.
LU switched their public WiF access off some time ago and are now
providing increasing in-tunnel mobile coverage.
Roland Perry
2024-12-31 07:25:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles Ellson
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 19:42:51 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
Post by Tweed
Post by Nobody
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 17:56:06 +0000, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G
signal, thats what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
You've found an NHS dentist?????
Was wondering about that small detail... though Canada is rolling out
a no-direct-cost-to-patient scheme in stages contracted to a private
insurance company which dentists can bill in similar fashion to
employer provided dental benefits.
As for expecting wee-fee everywhere, do the $smart-phone$ set really
need to watch cat videos 25/8?
Roland seems to live in a different world to mine. I can’t remember the
last place where I was unable to use my cellular data to look things
up/read things. The need to use WiFi when out and about is reducing to the
point of never needing it.
LU switched their public WiF access off some time ago
If that's the Virgin one, it wasn't really "public", various
subscriptions were required. And I never ever did get it working.
Post by Charles Ellson
and are now providing increasing in-tunnel mobile coverage.
At long last.
--
Roland Perry
Tweed
2024-12-31 08:12:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles Ellson
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 19:42:51 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
Post by Nobody
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 17:56:06 +0000, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G signal, thats
what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
You've found an NHS dentist?????
Was wondering about that small detail... though Canada is rolling out
a no-direct-cost-to-patient scheme in stages contracted to a private
insurance company which dentists can bill in similar fashion to
employer provided dental benefits.
As for expecting wee-fee everywhere, do the $smart-phone$ set really
need to watch cat videos 25/8?
Roland seems to live in a different world to mine. I can’t remember the
last place where I was unable to use my cellular data to look things
up/read things. The need to use WiFi when out and about is reducing to the
point of never needing it.
LU switched their public WiF access off some time ago and are now
providing increasing in-tunnel mobile coverage.
Are you sure about this? My Vodafone registered phone still picked up a
WiFi connection at stations the other week. This

https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/station-wifi

also implies that station WiFi is still available.

My trip along the Elizabeth Line core was a mixture of cellular in the
tunnels and sometimes switching to WiFi at stations
Roland Perry
2024-12-31 08:43:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tweed
Post by Charles Ellson
LU switched their public WiF access off some time ago and are now
providing increasing in-tunnel mobile coverage.
Are you sure about this? My Vodafone registered phone still picked up a
WiFi connection at stations the other week. This
https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/station-wifi
also implies that station WiFi is still available.
But with conditions...

"Any EE pay-as-you-go customer with a WiFi-enabled device can get WiFi
on the London Underground if you have topped up your account with at
least £5 within the last 30 days."

I only top up my EE PAYG every three months, with enough for the next
three months. Does this mean I'm disenfranchised two months out of
three?
--
Roland Perry
Tweed
2024-12-31 08:59:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Charles Ellson
LU switched their public WiF access off some time ago and are now
providing increasing in-tunnel mobile coverage.
Are you sure about this? My Vodafone registered phone still picked up a
WiFi connection at stations the other week. This
https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/station-wifi
also implies that station WiFi is still available.
But with conditions...
"Any EE pay-as-you-go customer with a WiFi-enabled device can get WiFi
on the London Underground if you have topped up your account with at
least £5 within the last 30 days."
I only top up my EE PAYG every three months, with enough for the next
three months. Does this mean I'm disenfranchised two months out of
three?
It appears to be a recurrent theme that you can’t access mobile services
optimally because of your attempts to save money. Second hand phones, PAYG
phone service.
Roland Perry
2024-12-31 09:41:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Charles Ellson
LU switched their public WiF access off some time ago and are now
providing increasing in-tunnel mobile coverage.
Are you sure about this? My Vodafone registered phone still picked up a
WiFi connection at stations the other week. This
https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/station-wifi
also implies that station WiFi is still available.
But with conditions...
"Any EE pay-as-you-go customer with a WiFi-enabled device can get WiFi
on the London Underground if you have topped up your account with at
least £5 within the last 30 days."
I only top up my EE PAYG every three months, with enough for the next
three months. Does this mean I'm disenfranchised two months out of
three?
It appears to be a recurrent theme that you can’t access mobile services
optimally because of your attempts to save money. Second hand phones,
That's a recliner meme, which hasn't been true for many years. But he
keeps on playing the cracked record. In any event, I haven't bought a
secondhand phone that was more than a year old, ever. Many were unwanted
presents/upgrades, although that does qualify as "secondhand".

You should also take into account that with generally three of my own
phones on the go at once, and trying to observe the performance of a
range of handsets, it was rather expensive to have been buying all of
them brand new.

The biggest disaster was a secondhand "Fairphone" a model which had been
vociferously recommended by someone here. I soon found out why they'd
ditched it, and sold it on myself for about what I'd paid.

Anyway, all six phones with airtime in the house now are new, the oldest
being a 2021 release Android bought in 2022, and the newest an
iPhone16pro. The biggest challenge is keeping them all charged up!

I've got at least another two that I only use on wifi as essentially
small tablets, and one day will get around to transferring the
specialist apps they have installed. Always assuming the apps are still
available. One of the more irritating things is when people withdraw
perfectly good apps, and that means you can't install them on a new
phone, because the process requires re-downloading them.
Post by Tweed
PAYG phone service.
Not sure why PAYG is a bad thing. A friend has just gone from a classic
contract at about £35/month to a PAYG at £5/month (from O2 to Vodafone
reseller I think), and not suffered as a result.

Another friend worked on the original O2-PAYG launch team, and a year
later I worked with the Vodafone PAYG implementation team. In both cases
that's almost all about new billing systems, not new network
infrastructure.
--
Roland Perry
Tweed
2024-12-31 10:20:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Charles Ellson
LU switched their public WiF access off some time ago and are now
providing increasing in-tunnel mobile coverage.
Are you sure about this? My Vodafone registered phone still picked up a
WiFi connection at stations the other week. This
https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/station-wifi
also implies that station WiFi is still available.
But with conditions...
"Any EE pay-as-you-go customer with a WiFi-enabled device can get WiFi
on the London Underground if you have topped up your account with at
least £5 within the last 30 days."
I only top up my EE PAYG every three months, with enough for the next
three months. Does this mean I'm disenfranchised two months out of
three?
It appears to be a recurrent theme that you can’t access mobile services
optimally because of your attempts to save money. Second hand phones,
That's a recliner meme, which hasn't been true for many years. But he
keeps on playing the cracked record. In any event, I haven't bought a
secondhand phone that was more than a year old, ever. Many were unwanted
presents/upgrades, although that does qualify as "secondhand".
You should also take into account that with generally three of my own
phones on the go at once, and trying to observe the performance of a
range of handsets, it was rather expensive to have been buying all of
them brand new.
The biggest disaster was a secondhand "Fairphone" a model which had been
vociferously recommended by someone here. I soon found out why they'd
ditched it, and sold it on myself for about what I'd paid.
Anyway, all six phones with airtime in the house now are new, the oldest
being a 2021 release Android bought in 2022, and the newest an
iPhone16pro. The biggest challenge is keeping them all charged up!
I've got at least another two that I only use on wifi as essentially
small tablets, and one day will get around to transferring the
specialist apps they have installed. Always assuming the apps are still
available. One of the more irritating things is when people withdraw
perfectly good apps, and that means you can't install them on a new
phone, because the process requires re-downloading them.
Post by Tweed
PAYG phone service.
Not sure why PAYG is a bad thing. A friend has just gone from a classic
contract at about £35/month to a PAYG at £5/month (from O2 to Vodafone
reseller I think), and not suffered as a result.
Another friend worked on the original O2-PAYG launch team, and a year
later I worked with the Vodafone PAYG implementation team. In both cases
that's almost all about new billing systems, not new network
infrastructure.
PAYG generally gets a poorer level of service from the networks, lower
priority and often prevented from using all of the networks’ available
frequency bands. For example, EE state PAYG plans are speed capped at
25Mbit/sec. I also believe their PAYG doesn’t support 5G. This means no
access to their 700 MHz band, which is 5G only and is aimed at rural
coverage. Someone paying £35/month for a contract that doesn’t include an
element of handset purchase has gone wrong somewhere.
Roland Perry
2024-12-31 07:22:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tweed
Post by Nobody
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 17:56:06 +0000, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G signal, thats
what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
You've found an NHS dentist?????
Was wondering about that small detail... though Canada is rolling out
a no-direct-cost-to-patient scheme in stages contracted to a private
insurance company which dentists can bill in similar fashion to
employer provided dental benefits.
As for expecting wee-fee everywhere, do the $smart-phone$ set really
need to watch cat videos 25/8?
Roland seems to live in a different world to mine. I can’t remember the
last place where I was unable to use my cellular data to look things
up/read things.
Maybe I am a more 24x7 user of data than you are. I can assure you that
in my travels this year from Brighton in the south, to Blackpool in the
north, I frequently get no mobile signal at all (not just no-data).
Post by Tweed
The need to use WiFi when out and about is reducing to the
point of never needing it.
Although that doesn't work either a lot of the time. It must be a couple
of years since I actually found a wifi-on-train working, for example.
--
Roland Perry
Tweed
2024-12-31 08:48:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Nobody
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 17:56:06 +0000, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G signal, thats
what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
You've found an NHS dentist?????
Was wondering about that small detail... though Canada is rolling out
a no-direct-cost-to-patient scheme in stages contracted to a private
insurance company which dentists can bill in similar fashion to
employer provided dental benefits.
As for expecting wee-fee everywhere, do the $smart-phone$ set really
need to watch cat videos 25/8?
Roland seems to live in a different world to mine. I can’t remember the
last place where I was unable to use my cellular data to look things
up/read things.
Maybe I am a more 24x7 user of data than you are. I can assure you that
in my travels this year from Brighton in the south, to Blackpool in the
north, I frequently get no mobile signal at all (not just no-data).
Post by Tweed
The need to use WiFi when out and about is reducing to the
point of never needing it.
Although that doesn't work either a lot of the time. It must be a couple
of years since I actually found a wifi-on-train working, for example.
I travel extensively and use mobile data during my travels. A couple of
years ago I ended up without signal in Luss on the shore of Loch Lomond.
Investigation showed it was not covered by Vodafone but did have service
from EE. Then I discovered Spusu, a virtual operator that has full access
to the EE network, issues eSIMs and is cheap. I pay £4.50 a month for 5
Gbytes. This in conjunction with my primary Vodafone sim seems to cover
pretty much every location. There’s the odd drop out on trains, usually
caused by the terrain, eg cuttings. Vodafone still hasn’t got its act
together after switching off 3G. They claimed they were going to refarm the
freed up spectrum to 4/5G, but this seems to be a work in progress. There’s
still far too much dropping back to very slow 2G based data. Having two
operators, who don’t share network infrastructure, on my phone makes a big
difference. It’s similar to roaming abroad where any operator will step in.
Casual observation indicates that EE has transformed their network from the
poorly performing one from the days of the Orange T-mobile merger to
something that’s really rather better than any of the others. Vodafone’s
position as my primary operator may be numbered, but I’m keeping watch on
how the merger with Three will change things.
Roland Perry
2024-12-31 09:01:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Nobody
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 17:56:06 +0000, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G
signal, thats what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
You've found an NHS dentist?????
Was wondering about that small detail... though Canada is rolling out
a no-direct-cost-to-patient scheme in stages contracted to a private
insurance company which dentists can bill in similar fashion to
employer provided dental benefits.
As for expecting wee-fee everywhere, do the $smart-phone$ set really
need to watch cat videos 25/8?
Roland seems to live in a different world to mine. I can’t remember the
last place where I was unable to use my cellular data to look things
up/read things.
Maybe I am a more 24x7 user of data than you are. I can assure you that
in my travels this year from Brighton in the south, to Blackpool in the
north, I frequently get no mobile signal at all (not just no-data).
Post by Tweed
The need to use WiFi when out and about is reducing to the
point of never needing it.
Although that doesn't work either a lot of the time. It must be a couple
of years since I actually found a wifi-on-train working, for example.
I travel extensively and use mobile data during my travels. A couple of
years ago I ended up without signal in Luss on the shore of Loch Lomond.
Investigation showed it was not covered by Vodafone but did have service
from EE. Then I discovered Spusu, a virtual operator that has full access
to the EE network, issues eSIMs and is cheap. I pay £4.50 a month for 5
Gbytes. This in conjunction with my primary Vodafone sim seems to cover
pretty much every location. There’s the odd drop out on trains, usually
caused by the terrain, eg cuttings. Vodafone still hasn’t got its act
together after switching off 3G. They claimed they were going to refarm the
freed up spectrum to 4/5G, but this seems to be a work in progress. There’s
still far too much dropping back to very slow 2G based data. Having two
operators, who don’t share network infrastructure, on my phone makes a big
difference. It’s similar to roaming abroad where any operator will step in.
Casual observation indicates that EE has transformed their network from the
poorly performing one from the days of the Orange T-mobile merger to
something that’s really rather better than any of the others. Vodafone’s
position as my primary operator may be numbered, but I’m keeping watch on
how the merger with Three will change things.
Having dual SIM will help, although some phones even with dual SIMs
don't roam the data from one to the other, and it has to be changed
manually. [The alternate SIM only doing voice]. I've got a "3" reseller
SIM in my second phone, and am keeping an eye on the coverage pattern,
but not nearly as much as my main phone.

I'm not a great fan of eSIMS, because you can't just whisk them out of
one phone and into another. That's why the eSIM in my main phone is
un-used (I foolishly loaded the eSIM when I bought the new phone, then
had to fiddle around to get that account transferred to another phone).

I'll try to keep a note of places over the next few days where I get
zero signal, ignoring things like the numerous tunnels between Kings
Cross and Stevenage, which is another "solved problem" that they can't
be bothered to implement.
--
Roland Perry
Ken
2024-12-31 10:26:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
The need to use WiFi when out and about is reducing to the
point of never needing it.
Although that doesn't work either a lot of the time. It must be a couple
of years since I actually found a wifi-on-train working, for example.
<splutters tea everywhere>

I find that GA wifi works most of the time. In fact I find that
on-train wifi usually works. Not always, but more often than not. In
the last 14 days I've used GA and SE wifi several times without
difficulty, except when travelling between Dover and Folkestone where
a combination of tunnels and cliffs defeated it.

This causing the nice guard a considerable delay as she tried to print
my collect-at-station tickets (I'd been unable to collect as SE's
network to the TVMs was down that day).
Roland Perry
2024-12-31 11:04:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
The need to use WiFi when out and about is reducing to the
point of never needing it.
Although that doesn't work either a lot of the time. It must be a couple
of years since I actually found a wifi-on-train working, for example.
<splutters tea everywhere>
I find that GA wifi works most of the time.
Maybe it does, but most of those trains are brand new, and I've not been
on more than a handful. Even then the backhaul between Bishops Stortford
and Cambridge is so poor it doesn't really work.
Post by Ken
In fact I find that on-train wifi usually works. Not always, but more
often than not. In the last 14 days I've used GA and SE wifi several
times without difficulty, except when travelling between Dover and
Folkestone where a combination of tunnels and cliffs defeated it.
This causing the nice guard a considerable delay as she tried to print
my collect-at-station tickets (I'd been unable to collect as SE's
network to the TVMs was down that day).
--
Roland Perry
Charles Ellson
2024-12-30 22:28:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nobody
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 17:56:06 +0000, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G signal, thats
what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
You've found an NHS dentist?????
Was wondering about that small detail... though Canada is rolling out
a no-direct-cost-to-patient scheme in stages contracted to a private
insurance company which dentists can bill in similar fashion to
employer provided dental benefits.
As for expecting wee-fee everywhere, do the $smart-phone$ set really
need to watch cat videos 25/8?
We don't need to but the little buggers are a lot more entertaining
than some of the other rubbish.
Roland Perry
2024-12-31 07:19:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nobody
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 17:56:06 +0000, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G
signal, thats what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
You've found an NHS dentist?????
Was wondering about that small detail... though Canada is rolling out
a no-direct-cost-to-patient scheme in stages contracted to a private
insurance company which dentists can bill in similar fashion to
employer provided dental benefits.
As for expecting wee-fee everywhere, do the $smart-phone$ set really
need to watch cat videos 25/8?
I read email, the news, and get messages via WhatsApp.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2024-12-31 07:18:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait.
In fact EE had 2-bars of 4G.
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Roland Perry
Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G
signal, thats what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
You've found an NHS dentist?????
Been signed up for about ten years now. They recently expanded into the
neighbouring laundrette which closed "because of Covid", and now have
eight treatment rooms.
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
(b) Perhaps there's no in-building 4/5G signal (actually until a
    couple of months ago there wasn't outside-building 5G either)
--
Roland Perry
Ken
2024-12-31 10:28:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait.
In fact EE had 2-bars of 4G.
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Roland Perry
Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G
signal, thats what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
You've found an NHS dentist?????
Been signed up for about ten years now. They recently expanded into the
neighbouring laundrette which closed "because of Covid", and now have
eight treatment rooms.
Handy if you can still lauder your duvet while they fix your teeth.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
(b) Perhaps there's no in-building 4/5G signal (actually until a
    couple of months ago there wasn't outside-building 5G either)
Charles Ellson
2024-12-30 22:24:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G signal, thats
what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
(b) Perhaps there's no in-building 4/5G signal (actually until a
couple of months ago there wasn't outside-building 5G either)
Away from hospitals dentists, like GPs (with odd exceptions for both)
are contractors providing services for the NHS in non-NHS premises.
Roland Perry
2024-12-31 07:27:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 09:26:06 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Anyway, I'm off to the dentists now, and just like every previous
time, I expect there to be no in-building coverage - for me to surf
while I wait. Unlike hospitals, there's no "NHS wifi".
Why should a dentist supply you with free wifi? Use your 4/5G signal, thats
what its for. Talk about entitled.
(a) Because other bits of the NHS do
(b) Perhaps there's no in-building 4/5G signal (actually until a
couple of months ago there wasn't outside-building 5G either)
Away from hospitals dentists, like GPs (with odd exceptions for both)
are contractors providing services for the NHS in non-NHS premises.
They still don't usually provide free wifi, which is a pity because they
spend so much effort trying to get people to use NHS apps and so on. My
dentist wanted me to log into an app to check my medical record, but I
just ignored it.
--
Roland Perry
Tweed
2024-12-30 10:46:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around
for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself.
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win ^H^H^H
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm of major
retailers
I was a mom-and-pop retailer taking cards in the late 70's.
Post by Tweed
via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
You are still arguing about the availability of merchant services (and I
agree with what you say, although many solutions have eye-watering
commissions). And of course, acceptance of Amex is rotting away. I never
did get GTR to say whether or not they expected their TVMs** to accept
it contactless. ["Do your TVMs take contactless Amex", "We take major
credit cards", "Do you consider Amex to be a major credit card"
<silence>].
I'm discussing the way the hardware can be deployed in he field, which
is a completely different kettle of worms.
** This was when faced an example which didn't, but was this because the
hardware was broken in some way, or did they not implement it.
Deploying card reader hardware in the field is a solved problem. It’s
solved in multiple ways these days. Your attempt to find obscure edge cases
is akin to stating that houses can’t have an electricity supply because a
remote farm isn’t connected to the grid.
Sadly it's not a solved problem, because over and over again I see
deployments of (eg) EV Chargers which involve digging up hundreds of
yards of car park tarmac, and even then wait six months for the
electricity company to dig up the road outside to connect them up. A
typical place for such chargers is also the ground floor of multi-story
car parks, which far too often are mobile phone not-spots.
Post by Tweed
As to mobile not spots, it must be strange out your way.
Why? I get this problem *all* the time. It's not a fairly story that
outside my friend's house, three miles from the Cambridge Science Park,
there's no O2 signal. It's not a fairy story that in the Ship Lane Car
Park on the Ely riverside, there's no O2 signal. Local Facebook groups
have not-spots as a perennial topic of discussion.
Post by Tweed
The only place I’ve not been able to receive a signal (other than
obvious places such as tunnels) of late has been a corner of Arran.
Having a phone that can connect to both Vodafone and EE does help though.
In the sense of dual-SIM I suppose (although some such phones won't
auto-roam data between them, and only do voice on the other unless you
go into "Settings"). Then there's Wifi-calling which as long as your
phone, network and SIM *all* support it, comes to the rescue in
otherwise very dodgy locations.
Meanwhile, in East Cambs there's a mast sharing agreement between O2 and
Vodafone, so if you can't get one (either a shadow or downtime), you
probably can't get the other.
Post by Tweed
With reference to UK railways I’ve found that EE has accelerated away from
Vodafone in terms of performance. By this I mean that in major footfall
areas such as St Pancras, Vodafone offers a signal but no throughput, a
sign of heavy cell site congestion.
Or a sign it's been badly set up. There's absolutely no reason (see
"solved problem") to flood a place like St Pancras with Picocells, if
there's the demand for connectivity.
Congested cell and badly set up are basically the same thing. EE appear to
have invested in Pico cells, Vodafone have not. My feeling is that Vodafone
have built a network that was adequate for voice and low bandwidth data
(web pages, email etc) but are now swamped by people downloading video. I
also suspect that EE users are benefiting from the emergency services
network rollout. For instance, EE works in the Clyde Tunnel and on most of
the Glasgow Subway, whereas Vodafone does not. (It ought to work in the
domestic tunnels of HS1 in as much as you get signal, but it didn’t move
data when I tried it a couple of months ago. As though they forgot to plug
the other end in). There’s been an article in the Times bemoaning the
inadequacy of Eurostar in train WiFi. I don’t see why folk bother with it.
My iPad using EE worked just fine for the whole trip between StP and
Brussels, bar the aforementioned tunnels. Got a good 4 to 10 Mbit/sec in
the undersea tunnel.

As to the phone switching between sims, the iPhone you appear to constantly
dismiss just works. Mine is set up to use the other sim automatically if it
can’t shift data on the primary sim. It will accept incoming voice calls on
either. Outgoing voice sim is selectable when you place the call (or indeed
when sending an SMS). Similarly WiFi calling just works.
Roland Perry
2024-12-31 09:58:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 16:32:25 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it
is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around
for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself.
You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the
*implementation* of the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win ^H^H^H
lose argument.
Muttley raised the point that if even a market stall holder could take
cards it should not be beyond the wit of man for EV charge points to do
likewise. At no point did he suggest they use the same
equipment. That is
an invention by yourself.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the "wit of market stall man" is a
completely different situation to the "wit of EV charger man". You can't
just say "Amazon can deliver things next day, so why can't I get my
luggage delivered by LNER the next day".
I disagree. Acceptance of cards has gone from being the realm of major
retailers
I was a mom-and-pop retailer taking cards in the late 70's.
Post by Tweed
via a very few tightly controlled channels to being almost
ubiquitous. Someone or some organisation claiming that card acceptance
could not be done would be flying in the face of today’s reality.
You are still arguing about the availability of merchant services (and I
agree with what you say, although many solutions have eye-watering
commissions). And of course, acceptance of Amex is rotting away. I never
did get GTR to say whether or not they expected their TVMs** to accept
it contactless. ["Do your TVMs take contactless Amex", "We take major
credit cards", "Do you consider Amex to be a major credit card"
<silence>].
I'm discussing the way the hardware can be deployed in he field, which
is a completely different kettle of worms.
** This was when faced an example which didn't, but was this because the
hardware was broken in some way, or did they not implement it.
Deploying card reader hardware in the field is a solved problem. It’s
solved in multiple ways these days. Your attempt to find obscure edge cases
is akin to stating that houses can’t have an electricity supply because a
remote farm isn’t connected to the grid.
Sadly it's not a solved problem, because over and over again I see
deployments of (eg) EV Chargers which involve digging up hundreds of
yards of car park tarmac, and even then wait six months for the
electricity company to dig up the road outside to connect them up. A
typical place for such chargers is also the ground floor of multi-story
car parks, which far too often are mobile phone not-spots.
Post by Tweed
As to mobile not spots, it must be strange out your way.
Why? I get this problem *all* the time. It's not a fairly story that
outside my friend's house, three miles from the Cambridge Science Park,
there's no O2 signal. It's not a fairy story that in the Ship Lane Car
Park on the Ely riverside, there's no O2 signal. Local Facebook groups
have not-spots as a perennial topic of discussion.
Post by Tweed
The only place I’ve not been able to receive a signal (other than
obvious places such as tunnels) of late has been a corner of Arran.
Having a phone that can connect to both Vodafone and EE does help though.
In the sense of dual-SIM I suppose (although some such phones won't
auto-roam data between them, and only do voice on the other unless you
go into "Settings"). Then there's Wifi-calling which as long as your
phone, network and SIM *all* support it, comes to the rescue in
otherwise very dodgy locations.
Meanwhile, in East Cambs there's a mast sharing agreement between O2 and
Vodafone, so if you can't get one (either a shadow or downtime), you
probably can't get the other.
Post by Tweed
With reference to UK railways I’ve found that EE has accelerated away from
Vodafone in terms of performance. By this I mean that in major footfall
areas such as St Pancras, Vodafone offers a signal but no throughput, a
sign of heavy cell site congestion.
Or a sign it's been badly set up. There's absolutely no reason (see
"solved problem") to flood a place like St Pancras with Picocells, if
there's the demand for connectivity.
Congested cell and badly set up are basically the same thing.
No they aren't. Badly setting up an installation at a major venue like
St Pancras includes decisions not to deploy sufficient cells.
Post by Tweed
EE appear to have invested in Pico cells, Vodafone have not. My
feeling is that Vodafone have built a network that was adequate for
voice and low bandwidth data (web pages, email etc) but are now swamped
by people downloading video. I also suspect that EE users are
benefiting from the emergency services network rollout.
Yes, that's been in the pipeline for years (and years and years).
Post by Tweed
For instance, EE works in the Clyde Tunnel and on most of
the Glasgow Subway, whereas Vodafone does not. (It ought to work in the
domestic tunnels of HS1 in as much as you get signal, but it didn’t move
data when I tried it a couple of months ago. As though they forgot to plug
the other end in). There’s been an article in the Times bemoaning the
inadequacy of Eurostar in train WiFi. I don’t see why folk bother with it.
It would have been useful in the early days of e* because there was
virtually no cellphone coverage in Kent outside the M25. Thalys had
satellite based wifi, but of course that didn't work in the tunnels
under Schiphol, and they couldn't be bothered to dual-home it with a
leaky feeder.
Post by Tweed
My iPad using EE worked just fine for the whole trip between StP and
Brussels, bar the aforementioned tunnels. Got a good 4 to 10 Mbit/sec in
the undersea tunnel.
The undersea tunnel was an early success, with one country's operator
wiring it for northbound and the other southbound. Although of course
when roaming cost money, you be paying dearly for one or the other.
Post by Tweed
As to the phone switching between sims, the iPhone you appear to constantly
dismiss just works.
I dismiss the iPhone not because of technology, but marketing. If other
people are prepared to spend 3x the build cost on a bit of bling to
impress the neighbours, so be it.
Post by Tweed
Mine is set up to use the other sim automatically if it
can’t shift data on the primary sim.
Some Android phones can do that too.
Post by Tweed
It will accept incoming voice calls on either.
All dual SIM phone will do that. The first I bought [new!] the first SIM
did 3G data and voice, but the second SIM only 2g voice {&SMS
obviously}. But it solved a problem of being able to keep in touch.
Post by Tweed
Outgoing voice sim is selectable when you place the call (or indeed
when sending an SMS). Similarly WiFi calling just works.
Wifi calling had a bit of a rocky start, but seems to be stable
technology. Not always a silver bullet. My invalid friend who lives
in a not-spot fifteen miles outside the M25 and three miles from the
County Town, has all kinds of issues with carers being unable to use
their phones, and not allowed by their IT people to set up wifi calling.
--
Roland Perry
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-12-30 09:37:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 17:03:41 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
No, I didn't, you did.
Oh dear, are you really trying to deny you were to person who first
introduced the idea of the market-stall-holder's gadget.
Oh dear, do I have to effectively write in crayon for you?

I said if market traders can have card readers so can EV chargers. I never
mentioned any particularly technology, you did.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
But I doubt your senile brains remembers how you moved the goalposts
now anyway.
We all know that throwing insults is by far the best way to win ^H^H^H
lose argument.
In your case since you're immune to facts its all thats left.
Graeme Wall
2024-12-29 17:29:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult.  Are you sure
you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around
for  decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation*
of  the technology.
Solved problem.
 OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market
trader  gadget duck-taped on the side?
That's not the solution.
I know, but it's what Muttley was implying should be done.
No it wasn't, much as I hate to defend him.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-12-29 16:18:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 13:38:49 +0000
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. Are you sure you’re
OK?
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around for
decades.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Roland Perry
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're
arguing
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation* of
the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market trader
gadget duck-taped on the side?
I think we're done here RolandGPT. Your replies are grammatically correct but
make little actual sense.
Nobody
2024-12-29 16:54:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. Are you sure you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation* of
the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market trader
gadget duck-taped on the side?
*Duck*-taped? That's quackers...

I guess that could be semi-on-topic if Mallard were steaming by.
Graeme Wall
2024-12-29 17:29:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nobody
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. Are you sure you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation* of
the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market trader
gadget duck-taped on the side?
*Duck*-taped? That's quackers...
I guess that could be semi-on-topic if Mallard were steaming by.
Where do you get this duck-tape from anyway?
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Nobody
2024-12-29 17:44:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 17:29:58 +0000, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Nobody
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. Are you sure you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation* of
the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market trader
gadget duck-taped on the side?
*Duck*-taped? That's quackers...
I guess that could be semi-on-topic if Mallard were steaming by.
Where do you get this duck-tape from anyway?
Probably from a FTSE market trader... they like to share. No need for
cash either, apparently.

In the spirit of the season, just send me the bill.
Marland
2024-12-29 17:53:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Nobody
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. Are you sure you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation* of
the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market trader
gadget duck-taped on the side?
*Duck*-taped? That's quackers...
I guess that could be semi-on-topic if Mallard were steaming by.
Where do you get this duck-tape from anyway?
Actually it is a reasonably well known brand
<https://www.ducktape.co.uk>

But Duck tape was and still sometimes is used to describe Duct tape and
other sticky tapes.
The name came from when the tape component that held the adhesive was
made from duck cloth which was a kind of canvas material .

GH
Nobody
2024-12-29 17:58:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Nobody
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. Are you sure you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation* of
the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market trader
gadget duck-taped on the side?
*Duck*-taped? That's quackers...
I guess that could be semi-on-topic if Mallard were steaming by.
Where do you get this duck-tape from anyway?
Actually it is a reasonably well known brand
<https://www.ducktape.co.uk>
But Duck tape was and still sometimes is used to describe Duct tape and
other sticky tapes.
The name came from when the tape component that held the adhesive was
made from duck cloth which was a kind of canvas material .
GH
Ouch... I've been branded.
Mark Goodge
2024-12-29 22:03:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Marland
Actually it is a reasonably well known brand
<https://www.ducktape.co.uk>
But Duck tape was and still sometimes is used to describe Duct tape and
other sticky tapes.
The name came from when the tape component that held the adhesive was
made from duck cloth which was a kind of canvas material .
"Duck tape" actually came first. The name comes, as you say, from a sticky
tape made from duck cloth (or cotton duck, a name which is still used for
the fabric). "Duct tape" is a later back-formation which arose after the
origins of duck tape were forgotten in the mists of time. The OED has
citations for "duck tape" as far back as 1899, and "duct tape" from 1965.
More recently (in 1981) a tape manufacturer sucessfully registered "duck
tape" as a trademark, meaning that nobody else can use that anyway for a
tape, so "duct tape" is now the accepted generic term.

Not that it really matters in the UK, though, we call it "gaffer tape" here
and nobody has tried to register that as a trade mark.

Mark
Roland Perry
2024-12-29 18:59:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Nobody
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. Are you sure you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation* of
the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market trader
gadget duck-taped on the side?
*Duck*-taped? That's quackers...
I guess that could be semi-on-topic if Mallard were steaming by.
Where do you get this duck-tape from anyway?
<https://www.amazon.co.uk/Duck-Original-Cloth-Tape-Silver/dp/B0051HED82
/ref=sr_1_4>
--
Roland Perry
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2024-12-29 21:19:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nobody
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. Are you sure you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation* of
the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market trader
gadget duck-taped on the side?
*Duck*-taped? That's quackers...
I guess that could be semi-on-topic if Mallard were steaming by.
On the Down Fast line, presumably?
Marland
2024-12-29 21:30:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Nobody
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. Are you sure you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation* of
the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market trader
gadget duck-taped on the side?
*Duck*-taped? That's quackers...
I guess that could be semi-on-topic if Mallard were steaming by.
On the Down Fast line, presumably?
With the safety valve feathering.

GH
Graeme Wall
2024-12-30 13:08:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Nobody
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. Are you sure you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation* of
the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market trader
gadget duck-taped on the side?
*Duck*-taped? That's quackers...
I guess that could be semi-on-topic if Mallard were steaming by.
On the Down Fast line, presumably?
That's a Blanket assumption.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Sam Wilson
2024-12-31 12:07:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Nobody
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 10:00:03 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 19:34:26 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Roland Perry
Maybe so, but not as far as your postings here suggest.
Err, Roland, you just replied to your own insult. Are you sure you’re OK?
I'm not convinced he's firing on all cylinders right now. As it is he seems to
be arguing against the existence of technology thats been around for decades.
There you again - wrong end of stick and waving it around loudly.
No, you're just confused and making a complete fool of yourself. You're arguing
against tech that already exists and has been in place for decades.
Post by Roland Perry
It's not the *technology* which matters, it's the *implementation* of
the technology.
Solved problem.
OK, so tell me where I can find an EV charger with a £25 market trader
gadget duck-taped on the side?
*Duck*-taped? That's quackers...
I guess that could be semi-on-topic if Mallard were steaming by.
On the Down Fast line, presumably?
Could be on eider.

Sam
--
The entity formerly known as ***@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2024-12-30 17:52:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rolf Mantel
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
In Germany, all trains have such vigilance devices, and I'd be very
surprised if this were different on British trains.
All mainline trains (except steam) will have a Driver's Safety Device
(DSD), formerly known as Deadman's handle/pedal. When released, this will
apply the brakes ~10 seconds later.

The overwhelming majority of trains will also have a Vigilance device,
which requires the driver to lift their foot off the DSD pedal every
~minute when prompted, otherwise a brake application will be made ~10
seconds later.

There may be some outliers which have DSD but not Vigilance - 08s for sure;
14x are gone, 15x I would expect to have been retrofitted since I drove
them 20 years ago. Older EMUs such as 455, 318, 320; locomotives such as
37, 47 and 56 which have not undergone a major rebuild would be my
candidates for that.
Tweed
2024-12-30 18:04:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Rolf Mantel
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
In Germany, all trains have such vigilance devices, and I'd be very
surprised if this were different on British trains.
All mainline trains (except steam) will have a Driver's Safety Device
(DSD), formerly known as Deadman's handle/pedal. When released, this will
apply the brakes ~10 seconds later.
The overwhelming majority of trains will also have a Vigilance device,
which requires the driver to lift their foot off the DSD pedal every
~minute when prompted, otherwise a brake application will be made ~10
seconds later.
There may be some outliers which have DSD but not Vigilance - 08s for sure;
14x are gone, 15x I would expect to have been retrofitted since I drove
them 20 years ago. Older EMUs such as 455, 318, 320; locomotives such as
37, 47 and 56 which have not undergone a major rebuild would be my
candidates for that.
Forty odd years ago I shared a twin German hospital room with a recently
retired train driver. Interesting chap. Once we’d got past how he helped
bomb Coventry we got onto trains. Apparently their dead man’s handle was a
foot pedal that simply had to be kept pressed. He said they just put a
weight on it - a brake shoe from memory.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2024-12-30 21:55:31 UTC
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Post by Tweed
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Rolf Mantel
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Hundreds of passengers saved after driver jumps from 186mph train
https://www.thetimes.com/article/47d6e62e-5f27-44a2-8c52-a9c5b1bfab60?sh
areToken=945a5f6c21dc4a79c45256e6319d7ba2
Hurrah for TGV designers, if only all trains had such vigilance devices.
In Germany, all trains have such vigilance devices, and I'd be very
surprised if this were different on British trains.
All mainline trains (except steam) will have a Driver's Safety Device
(DSD), formerly known as Deadman's handle/pedal. When released, this will
apply the brakes ~10 seconds later.
The overwhelming majority of trains will also have a Vigilance device,
which requires the driver to lift their foot off the DSD pedal every
~minute when prompted, otherwise a brake application will be made ~10
seconds later.
There may be some outliers which have DSD but not Vigilance - 08s for sure;
14x are gone, 15x I would expect to have been retrofitted since I drove
them 20 years ago. Older EMUs such as 455, 318, 320; locomotives such as
37, 47 and 56 which have not undergone a major rebuild would be my
candidates for that.
Forty odd years ago I shared a twin German hospital room with a recently
retired train driver. Interesting chap. Once we’d got past how he helped
bomb Coventry we got onto trains. Apparently their dead man’s handle was a
foot pedal that simply had to be kept pressed. He said they just put a
weight on it - a brake shoe from memory.
As was ours (on stock where it wasn't a handle) until sometime around the
early 1990s, and that's one reason why the Vigilance system was introduced.
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