Hazel Grove Chord

[Paul Harrison]

Hello All,

I'm doing some research on the construction and opening of the Hazel Grove
which celebrates its 20th birthday this year. It was officially opened on
the 29th April 1986 with timetabled services starting on the 12th May. I
have amassed a good collection of photos from local railway enthusiasts to
add to my own photo collection taken by my father.

Does anyone on the group have any snippets of info that they would like to
share ?

One item that I would be particularly interested in are documents relating
to the original 1930s proposal to link the LNWR Stockport to Buxton line
with the MR New Mills South to Heaton Mersey line.

Cheers Paul Harrison

[John Salmon]

Post by Paul Harrison
I'm doing some research on the construction and opening of the Hazel Grove
which celebrates its 20th birthday this year. It was officially opened on
the 29th April 1986 with timetabled services starting on the 12th May. I
have amassed a good collection of photos from local railway enthusiasts to
add to my own photo collection taken by my father.

I was on the first train on 12th May 1986, but it seems I didn't record any
other details. Wasn't Peter Fox involved in/suggested the construction of
the chord? Perhaps he is the person to ask.

[Peter Fox]

Post by John Salmon

Post by Paul Harrison
I'm doing some research on the construction and opening of the Hazel
Grove which celebrates its 20th birthday this year. It was officially
opened on the 29th April 1986 with timetabled services starting on the
12th May. I have amassed a good collection of photos from local railway
enthusiasts to add to my own photo collection taken by my father.

I was on the first train on 12th May 1986, but it seems I didn't record
any other details. Wasn't Peter Fox involved in/suggested the
construction of the chord? Perhaps he is the person to ask.

Yes I was. The object was to enable through trains between Sheffield and
Liverpool which at that time were not operated (except on Sundays) because
of the dificulty of crossing the throat of Piccadilly. I worked for BR
Research at the time and was working under contract for Provincial Services.

Peter Fox

[Paul Harrison]

I can tell you that from my uncles records that 31429 did the honours with
the first Up train from Manchester to Hull which departed Stockport at 0629
and ascended the Chord at 0638. This was formed of just three coaches, a Mk2
SO, Mk2 BFK and a Mk1 SO - not sure from the photos.
31443 descended the Chord at 0706 with the first Down train to Liverpool.
We later got the 0843 from Manchester Victoria to Harwich Parkeston Quay as
far as Sheffield behind 47449. Ironically, we got stopped at Hazel Grove to
allow a Down service to pass so had a standing start to surmount the Chord.
I think the Chord is 1 in 53 - I'll have to check my photos to confirm.

Any information is welcome

Cheers Paul

Post by Peter Fox

Post by John Salmon

Post by Paul Harrison
I'm doing some research on the construction and opening of the Hazel
Grove which celebrates its 20th birthday this year. It was officially
opened on the 29th April 1986 with timetabled services starting on the
12th May. I have amassed a good collection of photos from local railway
enthusiasts to add to my own photo collection taken by my father.

I was on the first train on 12th May 1986, but it seems I didn't record
any other details. Wasn't Peter Fox involved in/suggested the
construction of the chord? Perhaps he is the person to ask.

Yes I was. The object was to enable through trains between Sheffield and
Liverpool which at that time were not operated (except on Sundays) because
of the dificulty of crossing the throat of Piccadilly. I worked for BR
Research at the time and was working under contract for Provincial Services.
Peter Fox

[David E. Belcher]

Post by Peter Fox
Yes I was. The object was to enable through trains between Sheffield and
Liverpool which at that time were not operated (except on Sundays) because
of the dificulty of crossing the throat of Piccadilly.

Wasn't it also done to try and attract extra business by way of a
Stockport call?

David Belcher

[Peter Fox]

Post by David E. Belcher

Post by Peter Fox
Yes I was. The object was to enable through trains between Sheffield and
Liverpool which at that time were not operated (except on Sundays) because
of the dificulty of crossing the throat of Piccadilly.

Wasn't it also done to try and attract extra business by way of a
Stockport call?
David Belcher

Yes, But the primary use was to connect Sheffield (and places east/south)
with Liverpool.

Peter Fox

[Peter Fox]

Post by John Salmon

Post by Paul Harrison
I'm doing some research on the construction and opening of the Hazel
Grove which celebrates its 20th birthday this year. It was officially
opened on the 29th April 1986 with timetabled services starting on the
12th May. I have amassed a good collection of photos from local railway
enthusiasts to add to my own photo collection taken by my father.

I was on the first train on 12th May 1986, but it seems I didn't record
any other details. Wasn't Peter Fox involved in/suggested the
construction of the chord? Perhaps he is the person to ask.

Yes I was. The object was to enable through trains between Sheffield and
Liverpool which at that time were not operated (except on Sundays) because
of the dificulty of crossing the throat of Piccadilly. I worked for BR
Research at the time and was working under contract for Provincial Services.

Peter Fox

[Cheeky]

On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 19:11:28 +0000 (UTC), "Peter Fox"

Post by Peter Fox

Post by John Salmon

Post by Paul Harrison
I'm doing some research on the construction and opening of the Hazel
Grove which celebrates its 20th birthday this year. It was officially
opened on the 29th April 1986 with timetabled services starting on the
12th May. I have amassed a good collection of photos from local railway
enthusiasts to add to my own photo collection taken by my father.

I was on the first train on 12th May 1986, but it seems I didn't record
any other details. Wasn't Peter Fox involved in/suggested the
construction of the chord? Perhaps he is the person to ask.

Yes I was. The object was to enable through trains between Sheffield and
Liverpool which at that time were not operated (except on Sundays) because
of the dificulty of crossing the throat of Piccadilly. I worked for BR
Research at the time and was working under contract for Provincial Services.
Peter Fox

COuld you elaborate on the difficulty in crossing the throat?

TIA

[GMac]

Post by Cheeky
On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 19:11:28 +0000 (UTC), "Peter Fox"

Post by Peter Fox
Yes I was. The object was to enable through trains between Sheffield and
Liverpool which at that time were not operated (except on Sundays) because
of the dificulty of crossing the throat of Piccadilly. I worked for BR
Research at the time and was working under contract for Provincial Services.
Peter Fox

Could you elaborate on the difficulty in crossing the throat?
TIA

I'm presuming it was the same move that the Scarborough - Liverpool L.S
TPX trains make now - i.e. crossing from the electric lines (from the
Ashburys direction) at Ardwick over the fast lines (on the level) to
reach the slow lines which serve platforms 13 & 14 at Piccadilly. It's
a move that blocks those two fast lines used by nearly all express
services heading and & from Stockport (and beyond) and the Airport line
for several minutes at a time, which is why even today it's only done
once an hour each way (the other TPX services remain on the electric
lines all the way to Picc and thus don't conflict). Presumably before
the area was resignalled in the late 80's it was even more awkward to
do than it is now, which is why the fast service from Liverpool via
Warrington Central had to terminate at the through platforms at Picc
(usually in platform 14), with through passengers from these trains
wanting to travel to Sheffield having to hike over to the other side of
the station to catch a Hope Valley line train leaving from one of the
low numbered terminal platforms (these used to be routed via Bredbury
prior to the opening of the chord).

[Peter Fox]

Post by GMac

Post by Cheeky
On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 19:11:28 +0000 (UTC), "Peter Fox"

Post by Peter Fox
Yes I was. The object was to enable through trains between Sheffield and
Liverpool which at that time were not operated (except on Sundays) because
of the dificulty of crossing the throat of Piccadilly. I worked for BR
Research at the time and was working under contract for Provincial Services.
Peter Fox

Could you elaborate on the difficulty in crossing the throat?
TIA

I'm presuming it was the same move that the Scarborough - Liverpool L.S
TPX trains make now - i.e. crossing from the electric lines (from the
Ashburys direction) at Ardwick over the fast lines (on the level) to
reach the slow lines which serve platforms 13 & 14 at Piccadilly. It's
a move that blocks those two fast lines used by nearly all express
services heading and & from Stockport (and beyond) and the Airport line
for several minutes at a time, which is why even today it's only done
once an hour each way (the other TPX services remain on the electric
lines all the way to Picc and thus don't conflict). Presumably before
the area was resignalled in the late 80's it was even more awkward to
do than it is now, which is why the fast service from Liverpool via
Warrington Central had to terminate at the through platforms at Picc
(usually in platform 14), with through passengers from these trains
wanting to travel to Sheffield having to hike over to the other side of
the station to catch a Hope Valley line train leaving from one of the
low numbered terminal platforms (these used to be routed via Bredbury
prior to the opening of the chord).

Correct. They just wouldn't do it in those days.

Manchester Piccadilly doesn't work properly now, of course. There are just
too many conflicting movements.

Peter Fox

[Eddie Bellass]

Post by Peter Fox
Manchester Piccadilly doesn't work properly now, of course. There
are just too many conflicting movements.

----------------------------

I agree with this, but as privatisation rolls ever onwards, is there
the slightest chance ever of putting a few of these conflicting
services back into Victoria?

There have been problems ever since the then BR Provincial
Services Manager instigated his 1988 policy of 'Pack 'em into Picc'!

And 'twas he, was it not, who opened the Hazel Grove Chord on
a Sheffield to Liverpool special press run train using one of the
then new but never adopted Met Camm Class 151 3-car dmus?
I was on that trip myself.
--
Regards,

DigitisED (Eddie Bellass)

Eddie & Margaret Bellass,
Merseyside, United Kingdom.

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free and checked
by a leading anti-virus system - updated continuously.

[Peter Fox]

Post by Eddie Bellass

Post by Peter Fox
Manchester Piccadilly doesn't work properly now, of course. There are
just too many conflicting movements.

----------------------------
I agree with this, but as privatisation rolls ever onwards, is there
the slightest chance ever of putting a few of these conflicting
services back into Victoria?
There have been problems ever since the then BR Provincial
Services Manager instigated his 1988 policy of 'Pack 'em into Picc'!

The problem is that although the timetable never works properly, nobody
seems to be bothered to do anything about it.

Post by Eddie Bellass
And 'twas he, was it not, who opened the Hazel Grove Chord on
a Sheffield to Liverpool special press run train using one of the
then new but never adopted Met Camm Class 151 3-car dmus?
I was on that trip myself.

So was I, although I had left BR by then and nobody bothered to invite me. I
turned up anyway!

Peter Fox

[TBirdFrank]

Post by Peter Fox

Post by Peter Fox
Manchester Piccadilly doesn't work properly now, of course. There are
just too many conflicting movements.

The problem is that although the timetable never works properly, nobody
seems to be bothered to do anything about it.

And all the while Mayfield lies there quietly falling apart

[Charlie Hulme]

Post by Eddie Bellass

Post by Peter Fox
Manchester Piccadilly doesn't work properly now, of course. There
are just too many conflicting movements.

----------------------------
I agree with this, but as privatisation rolls ever onwards, is there
the slightest chance ever of putting a few of these conflicting
services back into Victoria?

Don't worry, Mr Darling's cutbacks will soon solve the problem.

Charlie

[Cheeky]

On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 09:50:55 +0000 (UTC), "Peter Fox"

Post by Peter Fox

Post by GMac
I'm presuming it was the same move that the Scarborough - Liverpool L.S
TPX trains make now - i.e. crossing from the electric lines (from the
Ashburys direction) at Ardwick over the fast lines (on the level) to
reach the slow lines which serve platforms 13 & 14 at Piccadilly. It's
a move that blocks those two fast lines used by nearly all express
services heading and & from Stockport (and beyond) and the Airport line
for several minutes at a time, which is why even today it's only done
once an hour each way (the other TPX services remain on the electric
lines all the way to Picc and thus don't conflict). Presumably before
the area was resignalled in the late 80's it was even more awkward to
do than it is now, which is why the fast service from Liverpool via
Warrington Central had to terminate at the through platforms at Picc
(usually in platform 14), with through passengers from these trains
wanting to travel to Sheffield having to hike over to the other side of
the station to catch a Hope Valley line train leaving from one of the
low numbered terminal platforms (these used to be routed via Bredbury
prior to the opening of the chord).

Correct. They just wouldn't do it in those days.
Manchester Piccadilly doesn't work properly now, of course. There are just
too many conflicting movements.
Peter Fox

Thanks all. I presumed it was signalling-related but the extra info is
helpful.