Discussion:
OT when is a vaccine passport not a vaccine passport?
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Recliner
2021-02-07 12:14:40 UTC
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“State-issued immunity passports will not be given out – but those
inoculated against coronavirus will be able to ask their GP for written
proof of their vaccine status if needed for travel, a minister has said.”
GPs will love this (not)....
It's great that GPs' letters are unforgeable, and accepted by Immigration
staff worldwide.

Obviously, these denials are BS, and the government is funding projects to
create vaccine passports. There will probably be international initiatives
that we will join.
Roland Perry
2021-02-07 12:13:39 UTC
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Permalink
“State-issued immunity passports will not be given out – but those
inoculated against coronavirus will be able to ask their GP for written
proof of their vaccine status if needed for travel, a minister has said.”
GPs will love this (not)....
Based on what I've seen at first hand of the vaccine rollout, this
should just be matter of "pressing a button".

For example, having been invited to have a jab by SMS, I swiftly went
online and booked it, getting a confirmation SMS timed 3 minutes after
the invitation. 4 minutes later I got a "reminder" SMS from the GP.

Whoever is facilitating this rather slick process could also send me an
automated letter confirming I'd had the jab (if the card they gave me at
the vaccination centre is regarded as not conclusive enough).
--
Roland Perry
NY
2021-02-07 16:37:54 UTC
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“State-issued immunity passports will not be given out – but those
inoculated against coronavirus will be able to ask their GP for written
proof of their vaccine status if needed for travel, a minister has said.”
*Surely* when you are vaccinated you receive some sort of confirmation,
stating which vaccine you have been given. Otherwise how is your GP to know
whether you have been done, in order to write the letter? Or is there a
*major* loophole in the process for GP certification, that it only works if
you have been vaccinated *by your GP's practice* as opposed to by one of the
mass-vaccination centres which are independent of GPs?

And it's not just for travel. I would imagine a lot of places (cinemas,
restaurants, shops) will regulate admission so as only to let in vaccinated
people, so almost everyone will need to show proof of vaccination. Or is it
"discriminatory" to bar admission to non-vaccinated people?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55970801
[quote]
[Mr Zahawi] said there were several reasons why vaccine passports would not
be introduced, not least because the vaccine was not mandatory in the UK.

"That's not how we do things. We do them by consent," he said.
[/quote]

Vaccination may not be mandatory, in the sense that you will be prosecuted
if you do not get vaccinated. But it is, de facto, essential, in that you
will not be admitted to places which only allow in vaccinated people.
bob
2021-02-07 12:27:23 UTC
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Permalink
“State-issued immunity passports will not be given out – but those
inoculated against coronavirus will be able to ask their GP for written
proof of their vaccine status if needed for travel, a minister has said.”
GPs will love this (not)....
For a vaccine passport to have any purpose, it needs international
recognition. As countries have rushed to get their vaccination
programs up and running, understandably, there has not been any
meaningful coordination to establsih what sort of record might be
appropriate for such a passport, and different countries have adopted
different standards for record keeping. Perhaps some form of standard
will emerge in due course, but from the way things are going, it will
almost certainly be retrospective for a significant number of people.

Robin
m***@round-midnight.org.uk
2021-02-07 12:52:17 UTC
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Permalink
“State-issued immunity passports will not be given out – but those
inoculated against coronavirus will be able to ask their GP for written
proof of their vaccine status if needed for travel, a minister has said.”
GPs will love this (not)....
Yes they will because they can charge for it.
Tweed
2021-02-07 12:55:05 UTC
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Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk
“State-issued immunity passports will not be given out – but those
inoculated against coronavirus will be able to ask their GP for written
proof of their vaccine status if needed for travel, a minister has said.”
GPs will love this (not)....
Yes they will because they can charge for it.
They will get so much grief from a certain section of their patients that
it won’t be worth it. Remember existing chargeable travel vaccine stuff etc
tends to be from the more genteel parts of society.
Roland Perry
2021-02-07 13:53:11 UTC
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Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk
“State-issued immunity passports will not be given out – but those
inoculated against coronavirus will be able to ask their GP for written
proof of their vaccine status if needed for travel, a minister has said.”
GPs will love this (not)....
Yes they will because they can charge for it.
It should be one of the services provided given they are already paid a
bounty for every jab.
--
Roland Perry
Tweed
2021-02-07 15:04:38 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk
“State-issued immunity passports will not be given out – but those
inoculated against coronavirus will be able to ask their GP for written
proof of their vaccine status if needed for travel, a minister has said.”
GPs will love this (not)....
Yes they will because they can charge for it.
It should be one of the services provided given they are already paid a
bounty for every jab.
I'm sure they'd be able to charge for any sort of letter or certificate.
As Recliner has already pointed out, a GP letter is instantly forgeable and
in practical terms, impossible to check up upon.
Graeme Wall
2021-02-07 16:41:29 UTC
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Post by Tweed
Post by Roland Perry
Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk
“State-issued immunity passports will not be given out – but those
inoculated against coronavirus will be able to ask their GP for written
proof of their vaccine status if needed for travel, a minister has said.”
GPs will love this (not)....
Yes they will because they can charge for it.
It should be one of the services provided given they are already paid a
bounty for every jab.
I'm sure they'd be able to charge for any sort of letter or certificate.
As Recliner has already pointed out, a GP letter is instantly forgeable and
in practical terms, impossible to check up upon.
The standard vaccination certificate is not that difficult forge either.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2021-02-07 13:49:31 UTC
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Post by Recliner
“State-issued immunity passports will not be given out – but those
inoculated against coronavirus will be able to ask their GP for written
proof of their vaccine status if needed for travel, a minister has said.”
GPs will love this (not)....
It's great that GPs' letters are unforgeable, and accepted by Immigration
staff worldwide.
Obviously, these denials are BS, and the government is funding projects to
create vaccine passports. There will probably be international initiatives
that we will join.
Funny how we can set up the equivalent for driving licences, ie a car hire
firm can check your driving licence status including convictions online as
long as you give them an authorisation code
https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence
but is seemingly not possible for jab status.
I expect the driving licence scheme took years to set up, and is only
satisfactory at a civil-dispute level, not law enforcement.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2021-02-07 14:17:23 UTC
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Maybe it'll be Apple and Google who will jointly solve the problem? They
already know when and where you visited the vaccination centre
In my case they don't, because the phone I took with me has data
disabled (because I'm too mean to pay for a monthly bundle I might only
actually need once every couple of months during a lockdown).
If the phone makes contact with local masts, it might still know where and when you went.
Roland Perry
2021-02-07 14:45:28 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Maybe it'll be Apple and Google who will jointly solve the problem? They
already know when and where you visited the vaccination centre
In my case they don't, because the phone I took with me has data
disabled (because I'm too mean to pay for a monthly bundle I might only
actually need once every couple of months during a lockdown).
If the phone makes contact with local masts, it might still know where and when you went.
More likely to be wifi hotspots. I wouldn't expect Google to have a
process whereby they could scrape my location information direct from O2
(without it being bounced via a data-enabled phone).
--
Roland Perry
ColinR
2021-02-07 15:01:55 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Maybe it'll be Apple and Google who will jointly solve the problem? They
already know when and where you visited the vaccination centre
In my case they don't, because the phone I took with me has data
disabled (because I'm too mean to pay for a monthly bundle I might only
actually need once every couple of months during a lockdown).
If the phone makes contact with local masts, it might still know where and when you went.
But it will merely show that you were in the vicinity, or even in the
building, but does NOT show that you actually had a jab. You could have
chickened out and not got the jab. Not a usable solution!
--
Colin
Recliner
2021-02-07 16:00:16 UTC
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Post by ColinR
Post by Recliner
Maybe it'll be Apple and Google who will jointly solve the problem? They
already know when and where you visited the vaccination centre
In my case they don't, because the phone I took with me has data
disabled (because I'm too mean to pay for a monthly bundle I might only
actually need once every couple of months during a lockdown).
If the phone makes contact with local masts, it might still know where and when you went.
But it will merely show that you were in the vicinity, or even in the
building, but does NOT show that you actually had a jab. You could have
chickened out and not got the jab. Not a usable solution!
You obviously only read the first half of what I wrote. Don't base your
response to my post on Roland's selective quoting.
Roland Perry
2021-02-07 16:21:52 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by ColinR
Post by Recliner
Maybe it'll be Apple and Google who will jointly solve the problem? They
already know when and where you visited the vaccination centre
In my case they don't, because the phone I took with me has data
disabled (because I'm too mean to pay for a monthly bundle I might only
actually need once every couple of months during a lockdown).
If the phone makes contact with local masts, it might still know
where and when you went.
But it will merely show that you were in the vicinity, or even in the
building, but does NOT show that you actually had a jab. You could have
chickened out and not got the jab. Not a usable solution!
You obviously only read the first half of what I wrote. Don't base your
response to my post on Roland's selective quoting.
That's an odd comment, because I didn't snip anything.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2021-02-07 16:31:39 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by ColinR
Post by Recliner
Maybe it'll be Apple and Google who will jointly solve the problem? They
already know when and where you visited the vaccination centre
In my case they don't, because the phone I took with me has data
disabled (because I'm too mean to pay for a monthly bundle I might only
actually need once every couple of months during a lockdown).
If the phone makes contact with local masts, it might still know
where and when you went.
But it will merely show that you were in the vicinity, or even in the
building, but does NOT show that you actually had a jab. You could have
chickened out and not got the jab. Not a usable solution!
You obviously only read the first half of what I wrote. Don't base your
response to my post on Roland's selective quoting.
That's an odd comment, because I didn't snip anything.
Really? So you must have accidentally deleted this crucial bit then:
"Perhaps governments will issue every vaccinated person with a QR code that
they photograph with their vaccination app?"

Incidentally, Google doesn't need your data to be turned on to record your
location history.
ColinR
2021-02-07 15:11:20 UTC
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Post by Recliner
“State-issued immunity passports will not be given out – but those
inoculated against coronavirus will be able to ask their GP for written
proof of their vaccine status if needed for travel, a minister has said.”
GPs will love this (not)....
It's great that GPs' letters are unforgeable, and accepted by Immigration
staff worldwide.
Obviously, these denials are BS, and the government is funding projects to
create vaccine passports. There will probably be international initiatives
that we will join.
Funny how we can set up the equivalent for driving licences, ie a car hire
firm can check your driving licence status including convictions online as
long as you give them an authorisation code
https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence
but is seemingly not possible for jab status.
I'm sure it'll happen, but not overnight. The mutual recognition of driving
licences and on-line checking didn't happen overnight.
Maybe it'll be Apple and Google who will jointly solve the problem? They
already know when and where you visited the vaccination centre, so it won't
take much more technology to complete the puzzle. Perhaps governments will
issue every vaccinated person with a QR code that they photograph with
their vaccination app?
What we need is a world beating system.....
The UK seems to be in line with current World Health Organisation advice:
https://www.who.int/news/item/15-01-2021-emergency-committee-on-covid-19-advises-on-variants-vaccines
The WHO Emergency Committee (EC) met virtually yesterday (14 January)
"Given that the impact of vaccines in reducing transmission is yet
unknown, and the current availability of vaccines is too limited, the
committee recommended that countries do not require proof of vaccination
from incoming travellers."

Suspect this will change in the future.
--
Colin
m***@round-midnight.org.uk
2021-02-07 15:45:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ColinR
Post by Recliner
“State-issued immunity passports will not be given out – but those
inoculated against coronavirus will be able to ask their GP for written
proof of their vaccine status if needed for travel, a minister has said.”
GPs will love this (not)....
It's great that GPs' letters are unforgeable, and accepted by Immigration
staff worldwide.
Obviously, these denials are BS, and the government is funding projects to
create vaccine passports. There will probably be international initiatives
that we will join.
Funny how we can set up the equivalent for driving licences, ie a car hire
firm can check your driving licence status including convictions online as
long as you give them an authorisation code
https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence
but is seemingly not possible for jab status.
I'm sure it'll happen, but not overnight. The mutual recognition of driving
licences and on-line checking didn't happen overnight.
Maybe it'll be Apple and Google who will jointly solve the problem?
They
already know when and where you visited the vaccination centre, so it won't
take much more technology to complete the puzzle. Perhaps governments will
issue every vaccinated person with a QR code that they photograph with
their vaccination app?
What we need is a world beating system.....
https://www.who.int/news/item/15-01-2021-emergency-committee-on-covid-19-advises-on-variants-vaccines
The WHO Emergency Committee (EC) met virtually yesterday (14 January)
"Given that the impact of vaccines in reducing transmission is yet
unknown, and the current availability of vaccines is too limited, the
committee recommended that countries do not require proof of vaccination
from incoming travellers."
Suspect this will change in the future.
I suspect some employers and other organisations are going to require
certificates as well.
Recliner
2021-02-07 16:00:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk
Post by ColinR
Post by Recliner
“State-issued immunity passports will not be given out – but those
inoculated against coronavirus will be able to ask their GP for written
proof of their vaccine status if needed for travel, a minister has said.”
GPs will love this (not)....
It's great that GPs' letters are unforgeable, and accepted by Immigration
staff worldwide.
Obviously, these denials are BS, and the government is funding projects to
create vaccine passports. There will probably be international initiatives
that we will join.
Funny how we can set up the equivalent for driving licences, ie a car hire
firm can check your driving licence status including convictions online as
long as you give them an authorisation code
https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence
but is seemingly not possible for jab status.
I'm sure it'll happen, but not overnight. The mutual recognition of driving
licences and on-line checking didn't happen overnight.
Maybe it'll be Apple and Google who will jointly solve the problem?
They
already know when and where you visited the vaccination centre, so it won't
take much more technology to complete the puzzle. Perhaps governments will
issue every vaccinated person with a QR code that they photograph with
their vaccination app?
What we need is a world beating system.....
https://www.who.int/news/item/15-01-2021-emergency-committee-on-covid-19-advises-on-variants-vaccines
The WHO Emergency Committee (EC) met virtually yesterday (14 January)
"Given that the impact of vaccines in reducing transmission is yet
unknown, and the current availability of vaccines is too limited, the
committee recommended that countries do not require proof of vaccination
from incoming travellers."
Suspect this will change in the future.
I suspect some employers and other organisations are going to require
certificates as well.
Undoubtedly.
John Levine
2021-02-07 16:39:51 UTC
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Post by Recliner
It's great that GPs' letters are unforgeable, and accepted by Immigration
staff worldwide.
Vaccine passports are nothing new. Try getting into most countries in central Africa
without a WHO yellow card that shows your typhoid and yellow fever shots.

What I don't understand is why they're inventing new cards rather than using
the exisiting one. Here in the US I got a white paper card issued by the US
CDC with a stamp showing my jab and a space to show when I get the second one.
--
Regards,
John Levine, ***@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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