Metrolink Matters - Future (Temporary) Closures.

[trainguard]

We are now nearing the second (and final!) St. Peter's Square blockade From Sunday, 26 June, through services via St. Peter's Square will cease until the end of August. Services from the Cornbrook direction will terminate at Deansgate-Castlefield, while the Bury service will be extended to Ashton and the Rochdale/Oldham trams will terminate in Exchange Square. This will allow the completion of the outbound platform and the finishing of the existing outbound track; the inbound platform is largely complete, with the columns for the shelter already erected. Paving has commenced from the Library side, and the last track work (two trailing junctions) will be completed over the next few weeks.

The opportunity will be taken to relay a large part of the Eccles/Media City line, which will close on the same date. It is expected that services to Media City will resume early August, and the rest later in the month.

The following is the state of 2cc.

Victoria Station - St. Mary's Gate. Complete. Trams Running.
St. Mary's Gate - King Street. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
King Street - Albert Square. Track and road surface complete.
Albert Square - St. Peter's Square. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
St. Peter's Square - Windmill Street. New inbound track complete and surfaced. Outbound track may be re-laid.

Dr. Barry Worthington

[Michael Bell]

Post by trainguard
We are now nearing the second (and final!) St. Peter's Square blockade
From Sunday, 26 June, through services via St. Peter's Square will
cease until the end of August. Services from the Cornbrook direction
will terminate at Deansgate-Castlefield, while the Bury service will
be extended to Ashton and the Rochdale/Oldham trams will terminate in
Exchange Square. This will allow the completion of the outbound
platform and the finishing of the existing outbound track; the inbound
platform is largely complete, with the columns for the shelter already
erected. Paving has commenced from the Library side, and the last
track work (two trailing junctions) will be completed over the next
few weeks.
The opportunity will be taken to relay a large part of the
Eccles/Media City line, which will close on the same date. It is
expected that services to Media City will resume early August, and the
rest later in the month.
The following is the state of 2cc.
Victoria Station - St. Mary's Gate. Complete. Trams Running.
St. Mary's Gate - King Street. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
King Street - Albert Square. Track and road surface complete.
Albert Square - St. Peter's Square. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
St. Peter's Square - Windmill Street. New inbound track complete and
surfaced. Outbound track may be re-laid.
Dr. Barry Worthington

MediaCity is a pair of terminating platforms. It seems awkward to me;
the drivers have to change ends. There is the space for a double loop.
Is that planned?

Michael Bell


--

[Recliner]

Post by Michael Bell

Post by trainguard
We are now nearing the second (and final!) St. Peter's Square blockade
From Sunday, 26 June, through services via St. Peter's Square will
cease until the end of August. Services from the Cornbrook direction
will terminate at Deansgate-Castlefield, while the Bury service will
be extended to Ashton and the Rochdale/Oldham trams will terminate in
Exchange Square. This will allow the completion of the outbound
platform and the finishing of the existing outbound track; the inbound
platform is largely complete, with the columns for the shelter already
erected. Paving has commenced from the Library side, and the last
track work (two trailing junctions) will be completed over the next
few weeks.
The opportunity will be taken to relay a large part of the
Eccles/Media City line, which will close on the same date. It is
expected that services to Media City will resume early August, and the
rest later in the month.
The following is the state of 2cc.
Victoria Station - St. Mary's Gate. Complete. Trams Running.
St. Mary's Gate - King Street. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
King Street - Albert Square. Track and road surface complete.
Albert Square - St. Peter's Square. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
St. Peter's Square - Windmill Street. New inbound track complete and
surfaced. Outbound track may be re-laid.
Dr. Barry Worthington

MediaCity is a pair of terminating platforms. It seems awkward to me;
the drivers have to change ends. There is the space for a double loop.
Is that planned?

Why would it? Aren't all the Metrolink termini simple buffer stops? It's
not as if the trams are single-ended. Those are usually the only trams that
have terminus loops.

[Mark Goodge]

On Sun, 22 May 2016 15:14:23 -0000 (UTC), Recliner

Post by Recliner

Post by Michael Bell
MediaCity is a pair of terminating platforms. It seems awkward to me;
the drivers have to change ends. There is the space for a double loop.
Is that planned?

Why would it? Aren't all the Metrolink termini simple buffer stops? It's
not as if the trams are single-ended. Those are usually the only trams that
have terminus loops.

Loops seem to be more common elsewhere, for instance these two in Freiburg:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@48.0013716,7.7873596,164m/data=!3m1!1e3

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@47.9766902,7.8177809,195m/data=!3m1!1e3

Having watched trams go round at both those loops (as a result of
travelling to the end-of-line station in each case), it does seem to make
things simpler.

Mark

[Charlie Hulme]

Post by Mark Goodge
Loops seem to be more common elsewhere, for instance these two
Having watched trams go round at both those loops (as a
result of travelling to the end-of-line station in each case),
it does seem to make things simpler.

But takes up space, although it does save space in the tram is
only one cab is needed. Bu then you can't turn back en route at
an emergency crossover if there are problems, which there are
daily in Metrolink.

The MediaCity branch is single track, only c. 400 metres long,
and at times (all the time at present) it is served by Eccles
cars in both directions; cars in each direction often cross
there. A turning loop would open space between the Media
buildings and would need a passing track on it.

I can't see how that would be an improvement. The only snag with
the present system is that you never quite know which platform
your tram will leave from, as they only wait to cross if the one
in the other direction is on time. Sometimes the platform
indicators resort to displaying 'See tram front' as destination.

I'm not impressed by having the whole Eccles line line closed for
such a long time. Couldn't it be relaid in sections?

Charlie

[Mark Goodge]

On Sun, 22 May 2016 17:47:09 +0100, Charlie Hulme

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Mark Goodge
Having watched trams go round at both those loops (as a
result of travelling to the end-of-line station in each case),
it does seem to make things simpler.

But takes up space, although it does save space in the tram is
only one cab is needed. Bu then you can't turn back en route at
an emergency crossover if there are problems, which there are
daily in Metrolink.

The Freiburg trams are double-ended, and do reverse at other termini
(mainly city centre ones where there's no space for a loop). But they seem
to have the principle that where there is space for a loop, it's better to
have one.

Mark

[Recliner]

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 22 May 2016 17:47:09 +0100, Charlie Hulme

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Mark Goodge
Having watched trams go round at both those loops (as a
result of travelling to the end-of-line station in each case),
it does seem to make things simpler.

But takes up space, although it does save space in the tram is
only one cab is needed. Bu then you can't turn back en route at
an emergency crossover if there are problems, which there are
daily in Metrolink.

The Freiburg trams are double-ended, and do reverse at other termini
(mainly city centre ones where there's no space for a loop). But they seem
to have the principle that where there is space for a loop, it's better to
have one.

Just speculation, but might the loops have been put in for an earlier
generation of single-ended trams?

They were quite common on older Continental systems, and allowed powered
trams to haul trailers.

[Mark Goodge]

On Sun, 22 May 2016 19:26:44 -0000 (UTC), Recliner

Post by Recliner

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 22 May 2016 17:47:09 +0100, Charlie Hulme

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Mark Goodge
Having watched trams go round at both those loops (as a
result of travelling to the end-of-line station in each case),
it does seem to make things simpler.

But takes up space, although it does save space in the tram is
only one cab is needed. Bu then you can't turn back en route at
an emergency crossover if there are problems, which there are
daily in Metrolink.

The Freiburg trams are double-ended, and do reverse at other termini
(mainly city centre ones where there's no space for a loop). But they seem
to have the principle that where there is space for a loop, it's better to
have one.

Just speculation, but might the loops have been put in for an earlier
generation of single-ended trams?

At least one of those two is on a fairly recent development. And Freiburg
has no single-ended trams now. So I doubt that's the reason.

Post by Recliner
They were quite common on older Continental systems, and allowed powered
trams to haul trailers.

Loops certainly do make it easier to have what are effectively loco-hauled
trams, yes.

Mark

[m***@wrg.org.uk]

Post by Recliner
Just speculation, but might the loops have been put in for an earlier
generation of single-ended trams?
They were quite common on older Continental systems, and allowed powered
trams to haul trailers.

Are there many systems where that's still the case? I was in Vienna a couple of years ago, and as far as I could see all the trams (including some modern ones as well as older ones with trailers) were single-ended, and so every terminus was a loop.

Martin L

[Graeme Wall]

Post by m***@wrg.org.uk

Post by Recliner
Just speculation, but might the loops have been put in for an earlier
generation of single-ended trams?
They were quite common on older Continental systems, and allowed powered
trams to haul trailers.

Are there many systems where that's still the case? I was in Vienna a couple of years ago, and as far as I could see all the trams (including some modern ones as well as older ones with trailers) were single-ended, and so every terminus was a loop.

Amsterdam trams are single ended (and single sided) so utilise loops.

[d***@yahoo.co.uk]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[m***@wrg.org.uk]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by m***@wrg.org.uk

Post by Recliner
Just speculation, but might the loops have been put in for an earlier
generation of single-ended trams?
They were quite common on older Continental systems, and allowed powered
trams to haul trailers.

Are there many systems where that's still the case? I was in Vienna a couple of years ago, and as far as I could see all the trams (including some modern ones as well as older ones with trailers) were single-ended, and so every terminus was a loop.

Amsterdam trams are single ended (and single sided) so utilise loops.

Ah yes, I should have remembered Amsterdam as I was there a couple of years ago to. But I recall there being a mixture with some double-ended - and a check on Wikipedia confirms that there is just one route that doesn't have a loop at one end, and therefore needs a small set of double-ended trams. Presumably there used to be more such routes - I can't imagine them creating just one non-standard line.

Martin L

[Graeme Wall]

Post by m***@wrg.org.uk

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by m***@wrg.org.uk

Post by Recliner
Just speculation, but might the loops have been put in for an earlier
generation of single-ended trams?
They were quite common on older Continental systems, and allowed powered
trams to haul trailers.

Are there many systems where that's still the case? I was in Vienna a couple of years ago, and as far as I could see all the trams (including some modern ones as well as older ones with trailers) were single-ended, and so every terminus was a loop.

Amsterdam trams are single ended (and single sided) so utilise loops.

Ah yes, I should have remembered Amsterdam as I was there a couple of years ago to. But I recall there being a mixture with some double-ended - and a check on Wikipedia confirms that there is just one route that doesn't have a loop at one end, and therefore needs a small set of double-ended trams. Presumably there used to be more such routes - I can't imagine them creating just one non-standard line.

That would be line 5.

[m***@wrg.org.uk]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by m***@wrg.org.uk

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by m***@wrg.org.uk

Post by Recliner
Just speculation, but might the loops have been put in for an earlier
generation of single-ended trams?
They were quite common on older Continental systems, and allowed powered
trams to haul trailers.

Are there many systems where that's still the case? I was in Vienna a couple of years ago, and as far as I could see all the trams (including some modern ones as well as older ones with trailers) were single-ended, and so every terminus was a loop.

Amsterdam trams are single ended (and single sided) so utilise loops.

Ah yes, I should have remembered Amsterdam as I was there a couple of years ago to. But I recall there being a mixture with some double-ended - and a check on Wikipedia confirms that there is just one route that doesn't have a loop at one end, and therefore needs a small set of double-ended trams. Presumably there used to be more such routes - I can't imagine them creating just one non-standard line.

That would be line 5.

That's right. Having had another look on Wikipedia and also Bing maps, it seems to be a bit of an unusual line, sharing the southern end of its route with a Metro line which was built to a 'light rail' standard that's somewhere between tramway and full Metro. I assume its use of a different tram type is in some way related to that.

Incidentally there seems to have been a political angle to some of the planning and decision making regarding the Amsterdam Metro in the 1980s - it's like they had to be able to convince the public that "It's not really a Metro, it's a actually an improved tramway". (Rather the opposite of the situation over here around the same time, when it was "No, we're not bringing back the old trams, we're building a modern light rail transport system".)

Martin L

[Recliner]

Post by m***@wrg.org.uk

Post by Recliner
Just speculation, but might the loops have been put in for an earlier
generation of single-ended trams?
They were quite common on older Continental systems, and allowed powered
trams to haul trailers.

Are there many systems where that's still the case? I was in Vienna a
couple of years ago, and as far as I could see all the trams (including
some modern ones as well as older ones with trailers) were single-ended,
and so every terminus was a loop.

Single-ended trams with doors only on one side are cheaper and make better
use of floor space, so networks with loops at all termini continue to order
new fleets of single-ended trams. But all-new networks have to be squeezed
into tight streetscapes, and don't have the luxury of a turning loop at
every reversing point. So they have to use double-ended trams.

That's why all the new UK light rail networks have double-ended vehicles,
while Blackpool, as a classic tram system, does have some turning loops,
mainly used by the old vehicles.

[Recliner]

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Mark Goodge
Having watched trams go round at both those loops (as a
result of travelling to the end-of-line station in each case),
it does seem to make things simpler.

But takes up space, although it does save space in the tram is
only one cab is needed. Bu then you can't turn back en route at
an emergency crossover if there are problems, which there are
daily in Metrolink.
The MediaCity branch is single track, only c. 400 metres long,
and at times (all the time at present) it is served by Eccles
cars in both directions; cars in each direction often cross
there. A turning loop would open space between the Media
buildings and would need a passing track on it.
I can't see how that would be an improvement. The only snag with
the present system is that you never quite know which platform
your tram will leave from, as they only wait to cross if the one
in the other direction is on time. Sometimes the platform
indicators resort to displaying 'See tram front' as destination.

I wonder if there might be another snag with a turning loop? It obviously
turns the tram round, which doesn't otherwise happen with Metrolink trams.
Unless they're completely symmetrical, they have to be kept facing the same
way (eg, to couple successfully).

[Charlie Hulme]

Post by Recliner
I wonder if there might be another snag with a turning loop?
It obviously turns the tram round, which doesn't otherwise
happen with Metrolink trams. Unless they're completely
symmetrical, they have to be kept facing the same way (eg, to
couple successfully).

They are symmetrical. Triangles exist at the junction of the
Mediacity branch and also in Piccadilly Gardens, so on occasions
they get reversed during a day's work.

Charlie

[Recliner]

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Recliner
I wonder if there might be another snag with a turning loop?
It obviously turns the tram round, which doesn't otherwise
happen with Metrolink trams. Unless they're completely
symmetrical, they have to be kept facing the same way (eg, to
couple successfully).

They are symmetrical. Triangles exist at the junction of the
Mediacity branch and also in Piccadilly Gardens, so on occasions
they get reversed during a day's work.

Ah, I didn't know about the former and had forgotten about the latter.

It's a reminder that I've not travelled on Metrolink for a long time. I
keep waiting till it's 'finished' before coming back to Manchester for a
day's track bashing, but they keep extending it!

Do you know how feasible it will be to comfortably cover the whole of the
extended network in a day? Would it be any harder at a weekend?

I might use some of my many Avios to do a day trip, taking an early morning
flight from Heathrow, returning in the evening. That would give me more
time than the train would.

[BevanPrice]

Post by Recliner

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Recliner
I wonder if there might be another snag with a turning loop?
It obviously turns the tram round, which doesn't otherwise
happen with Metrolink trams. Unless they're completely
symmetrical, they have to be kept facing the same way (eg, to
couple successfully).

They are symmetrical. Triangles exist at the junction of the
Mediacity branch and also in Piccadilly Gardens, so on occasions
they get reversed during a day's work.

Ah, I didn't know about the former and had forgotten about the latter.
It's a reminder that I've not travelled on Metrolink for a long time. I
keep waiting till it's 'finished' before coming back to Manchester for a
day's track bashing, but they keep extending it!
Do you know how feasible it will be to comfortably cover the whole of the
extended network in a day? Would it be any harder at a weekend?
I might use some of my many Avios to do a day trip, taking an early morning
flight from Heathrow, returning in the evening. That would give me more
time than the train would.

Should be possible. Currently, Exchange Square is only open at (roughly)
"shopping hours", but will presumably get an all day service when the
2nd cross-city route is opened. If necessary, you could save time by
doing Airport - Piccadilly by rail in one direction.

(It will take more time if you want to do every available crossover &
platform. )

[Charlie Hulme]

Post by Recliner
Do you know how feasible it will be to comfortably cover the whole of the
extended network in a day? Would it be any harder at a weekend?

Best wait until September when all lines should be working again,
although the second city crossing won't be ready.

It's an interesting idea. The longest run is Rochdale to Ashton
at (officially) 1 hour 24 minutes. Altrincham to Bury when the
direct service running needs around an hour. Possible if you are
not a track completist.

Airport to Cornbrook is a mind-numbing 42 minutes. Eccles to
Cornbrook 24 minutes at the moment via MediaCity: in normal times
you'd have to walk ( 5 minutes) from Broadway to MediaCity as
daytime Eccles services won't go down the branch.

As Bevan says, the trick would be to study heavy rail timetables
and maybe use Northern between Rochdale - Victoria, Ashton -
Piccadilly, Eccles - Victoria. Altrincham by NR is a saving
unless you come by train, get off at Stockport and get the train
to Altrincham to start your day.

Personally, I'd suggest there are plenty of inexpensive hotels in
Manchester now and a number of cultural attractions well worth a
visit.

Charlie

[Basil Jet]

Post by Recliner

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Recliner
I wonder if there might be another snag with a turning loop?
It obviously turns the tram round, which doesn't otherwise
happen with Metrolink trams. Unless they're completely
symmetrical, they have to be kept facing the same way (eg, to
couple successfully).

They are symmetrical. Triangles exist at the junction of the
Mediacity branch and also in Piccadilly Gardens, so on occasions
they get reversed during a day's work.

Ah, I didn't know about the former and had forgotten about the latter.
It's a reminder that I've not travelled on Metrolink for a long time. I
keep waiting till it's 'finished' before coming back to Manchester for a
day's track bashing, but they keep extending it!
Do you know how feasible it will be to comfortably cover the whole of the
extended network in a day? Would it be any harder at a weekend?

Since people do the whole London Underground in a day, I'm sure doing
all of Metrolink would be a doddle. I suspect you could even do the
whole thing in daylight in midwinter.

[Recliner]

Post by Basil Jet

Post by Recliner

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Recliner
I wonder if there might be another snag with a turning loop?
It obviously turns the tram round, which doesn't otherwise
happen with Metrolink trams. Unless they're completely
symmetrical, they have to be kept facing the same way (eg, to
couple successfully).

They are symmetrical. Triangles exist at the junction of the
Mediacity branch and also in Piccadilly Gardens, so on occasions
they get reversed during a day's work.

Ah, I didn't know about the former and had forgotten about the latter.
It's a reminder that I've not travelled on Metrolink for a long time. I
keep waiting till it's 'finished' before coming back to Manchester for a
day's track bashing, but they keep extending it!
Do you know how feasible it will be to comfortably cover the whole of the
extended network in a day? Would it be any harder at a weekend?

Since people do the whole London Underground in a day, I'm sure doing
all of Metrolink would be a doddle. I suspect you could even do the
whole thing in daylight in midwinter.

My plan is to do it in a day trip from London, so even if I use the first
and last Heathrow flights, my options are more limited.

[Michael Bell]

In message <1940847759.485705504.291099.recliner.ng-***@new
s.eternal-september.org>

Post by Recliner

Post by Basil Jet

Post by Recliner

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Recliner
I wonder if there might be another snag with a turning loop?
It obviously turns the tram round, which doesn't otherwise
happen with Metrolink trams. Unless they're completely
symmetrical, they have to be kept facing the same way (eg, to
couple successfully).

They are symmetrical. Triangles exist at the junction of the
Mediacity branch and also in Piccadilly Gardens, so on occasions
they get reversed during a day's work.

Ah, I didn't know about the former and had forgotten about the latter.
It's a reminder that I've not travelled on Metrolink for a long time. I
keep waiting till it's 'finished' before coming back to Manchester for a
day's track bashing, but they keep extending it!
Do you know how feasible it will be to comfortably cover the whole of the
extended network in a day? Would it be any harder at a weekend?

Since people do the whole London Underground in a day, I'm sure doing
all of Metrolink would be a doddle. I suspect you could even do the
whole thing in daylight in midwinter.

My plan is to do it in a day trip from London, so even if I use the first
and last Heathrow flights, my options are more limited.

What exactly are you going to DO with this day in Manchester? I count
myself as a rail enthusiast, but I couldn't spend a whole day looking
at rolling stock and trackwork. Let me put it another way, what
questions will be answered?

Michael Bell

--

[Recliner]

Post by Michael Bell
s.eternal-september.org>

Post by Recliner

Post by Basil Jet

Post by Recliner

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Recliner
I wonder if there might be another snag with a turning loop?
It obviously turns the tram round, which doesn't otherwise
happen with Metrolink trams. Unless they're completely
symmetrical, they have to be kept facing the same way (eg, to
couple successfully).

They are symmetrical. Triangles exist at the junction of the
Mediacity branch and also in Piccadilly Gardens, so on occasions
they get reversed during a day's work.

Ah, I didn't know about the former and had forgotten about the latter.
It's a reminder that I've not travelled on Metrolink for a long time. I
keep waiting till it's 'finished' before coming back to Manchester for a
day's track bashing, but they keep extending it!
Do you know how feasible it will be to comfortably cover the whole of the
extended network in a day? Would it be any harder at a weekend?

Since people do the whole London Underground in a day, I'm sure doing
all of Metrolink would be a doddle. I suspect you could even do the
whole thing in daylight in midwinter.

My plan is to do it in a day trip from London, so even if I use the first
and last Heathrow flights, my options are more limited.

What exactly are you going to DO with this day in Manchester? I count
myself as a rail enthusiast, but I couldn't spend a whole day looking
at rolling stock and trackwork. Let me put it another way, what
questions will be answered?

I don't have specific questions (though that might change nearer the day).
I'd just like to travel on all the Metrolink lines, particularly the
extensions that I've not yet been on. I don't care about travelling on
every inch of track, so a one-way journey over routes is sufficient. Other
track bashers are far more fanatical, and want to travel over every curve
and past every platform.

For example, yesterday I travelled on the GOBLIN line, to remember its
diesel days. It's been a rare diesel island in an otherwise all-electric
passenger railway (both ends are at stations where all the other passenger
trains are electric, as are all the lines it crosses). I've obviously
travelled on it before, but I wanted one last ride on DMUs on it. I'll do
the same again on the Greenford shuttle while it still goes to Paddington,
but that's not a diesel island, as there are other diesel passenger trains
along its route.

[m***@wrg.org.uk]

Post by Recliner
For example, yesterday I travelled on the GOBLIN line, to remember its
diesel days. It's been a rare diesel island in an otherwise all-electric
passenger railway (both ends are at stations where all the other passenger
trains are electric, as are all the lines it crosses).

A pedant writes: "...except the ECML"

Martin L

[Recliner]

Post by m***@wrg.org.uk

Post by Recliner
For example, yesterday I travelled on the GOBLIN line, to remember its
diesel days. It's been a rare diesel island in an otherwise all-electric
passenger railway (both ends are at stations where all the other passenger
trains are electric, as are all the lines it crosses).

A pedant writes: "...except the ECML"

OK, fair enough, but at least the line is electrified.

[R. Mark Clayton]

Post by m***@wrg.org.uk

Post by Recliner
For example, yesterday I travelled on the GOBLIN line, to remember its
diesel days. It's been a rare diesel island in an otherwise all-electric
passenger railway (both ends are at stations where all the other passenger
trains are electric, as are all the lines it crosses).

A pedant writes: "...except the ECML"

MML surely?

Post by m***@wrg.org.uk
Martin L

[m***@wrg.org.uk]

Post by R. Mark Clayton

Post by m***@wrg.org.uk

Post by Recliner
For example, yesterday I travelled on the GOBLIN line, to remember its
diesel days. It's been a rare diesel island in an otherwise all-electric
passenger railway (both ends are at stations where all the other passenger
trains are electric, as are all the lines it crosses).

A pedant writes: "...except the ECML"

MML surely?

No, the GOBLIN doesn't cross the MML. (Many years ago it used to link with it, when the west end went to Kentish Town rather than Gospel Oak - and I suppose it would have been the rather less pronouncable KTBLIN!)

Martin L

[Charlie Hulme]

Post by Michael Bell
What exactly are you going to DO with this day in Manchester? I count
myself as a rail enthusiast, but I couldn't spend a whole day looking
at rolling stock and trackwork.

I could!

Of course he will also see the scenery of Manchester's leafy suburbs.

Charlie

[j***@pyromancer.net]

Post by Michael Bell
s.eternal-september.org>

Post by Recliner

Post by Basil Jet

Post by Recliner

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Recliner
I wonder if there might be another snag with a turning loop?
It obviously turns the tram round, which doesn't otherwise
happen with Metrolink trams. Unless they're completely
symmetrical, they have to be kept facing the same way (eg, to
couple successfully).

They are symmetrical. Triangles exist at the junction of the
Mediacity branch and also in Piccadilly Gardens, so on occasions
they get reversed during a day's work.

Ah, I didn't know about the former and had forgotten about the latter.
It's a reminder that I've not travelled on Metrolink for a long time. I
keep waiting till it's 'finished' before coming back to Manchester for a
day's track bashing, but they keep extending it!
Do you know how feasible it will be to comfortably cover the whole of the
extended network in a day? Would it be any harder at a weekend?

Since people do the whole London Underground in a day, I'm sure doing
all of Metrolink would be a doddle. I suspect you could even do the
whole thing in daylight in midwinter.

My plan is to do it in a day trip from London, so even if I use the first
and last Heathrow flights, my options are more limited.

What exactly are you going to DO with this day in Manchester? I count
myself as a rail enthusiast, but I couldn't spend a whole day looking
at rolling stock and trackwork.

As a rail enthusiast, I could, and frequently have, spent whole
weeks doing nothing but riding on trains, changing trains, looking
at trains (and trackwork and stations and related things). Ok,
I also looked out of the windows and enjoyed the view of whatever
scenery happened to be passing, but the main thing was to be on
and about trains and railways.

[Recliner]

Post by Michael Bell
s.eternal-september.org>

Post by Recliner

Post by Basil Jet

Post by Recliner

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Recliner
I wonder if there might be another snag with a turning loop?
It obviously turns the tram round, which doesn't otherwise
happen with Metrolink trams. Unless they're completely
symmetrical, they have to be kept facing the same way (eg, to
couple successfully).

They are symmetrical. Triangles exist at the junction of the
Mediacity branch and also in Piccadilly Gardens, so on occasions
they get reversed during a day's work.

Ah, I didn't know about the former and had forgotten about the latter.
It's a reminder that I've not travelled on Metrolink for a long time. I
keep waiting till it's 'finished' before coming back to Manchester for a
day's track bashing, but they keep extending it!
Do you know how feasible it will be to comfortably cover the whole of the
extended network in a day? Would it be any harder at a weekend?

Since people do the whole London Underground in a day, I'm sure doing
all of Metrolink would be a doddle. I suspect you could even do the
whole thing in daylight in midwinter.

My plan is to do it in a day trip from London, so even if I use the first
and last Heathrow flights, my options are more limited.

What exactly are you going to DO with this day in Manchester? I count
myself as a rail enthusiast, but I couldn't spend a whole day looking
at rolling stock and trackwork. Let me put it another way, what
questions will be answered?

Another thought strikes me: when you went to Japan, I assume you had a JR
pass for at least some of the time there? Didn't you use it to go track
bashing in Tokyo, Kyoto or Osaka? Didn't you try and ride on or photograph
all the local trains, and go out on one route, returning on another? I
certainly did. Weren't you intrigued by all the stuff painted on the
platforms? Or the colour-coded strap hangers?

One semi-rail related observation of mine was on escalator etiquette. In
Japan, one normally stands on the left on escalators and walks on the
right, the opposite to here. But in Osaka, the convention is the same as in
the UK, and people stand on the right. But JR West seems keen to enforce a
Japan-wide tradition of standing on the left, and has graphics on its
escalators in Osaka station showing people standing on the left.

I was curious to see which convention prevailed, and found that it was
almost random. When people joined a busy escalator, they always did what
the others ahead of them were already doing. But if they stepped on to an
empty one, they seemed to do whatever came naturally to them, so Osaka
natives stood on the right and Tokyo natives on the left. Whoever followed
them then did the same.

[j***@pyromancer.net]

Post by Recliner
One semi-rail related observation of mine was on escalator etiquette. In
Japan, one normally stands on the left on escalators and walks on the
right, the opposite to here. But in Osaka, the convention is the same as in
the UK, and people stand on the right. But JR West seems keen to enforce a
Japan-wide tradition of standing on the left, and has graphics on its
escalators in Osaka station showing people standing on the left.
I was curious to see which convention prevailed, and found that it was
almost random. When people joined a busy escalator, they always did what
the others ahead of them were already doing. But if they stepped on to an
empty one, they seemed to do whatever came naturally to them, so Osaka
natives stood on the right and Tokyo natives on the left. Whoever followed
them then did the same.

Interesting - I could imagine that causing absolute mayhem in
London, but presumably the Japanese just made it work?

[Recliner]

Post by j***@pyromancer.net

Post by Recliner
One semi-rail related observation of mine was on escalator etiquette. In
Japan, one normally stands on the left on escalators and walks on the
right, the opposite to here. But in Osaka, the convention is the same as in
the UK, and people stand on the right. But JR West seems keen to enforce a
Japan-wide tradition of standing on the left, and has graphics on its
escalators in Osaka station showing people standing on the left.
I was curious to see which convention prevailed, and found that it was
almost random. When people joined a busy escalator, they always did what
the others ahead of them were already doing. But if they stepped on to an
empty one, they seemed to do whatever came naturally to them, so Osaka
natives stood on the right and Tokyo natives on the left. Whoever followed
them then did the same.

Interesting - I could imagine that causing absolute mayhem in
London, but presumably the Japanese just made it work?

Yes, it seems to work seamlessly. The Japanese are great conformists.

[Michael Bell]

In message <1915546457.485622876.916564.recliner.ng-***@new
s.eternal-september.org>

Post by Recliner

Post by Michael Bell

Post by trainguard
We are now nearing the second (and final!) St. Peter's Square blockade
From Sunday, 26 June, through services via St. Peter's Square will
cease until the end of August. Services from the Cornbrook direction
will terminate at Deansgate-Castlefield, while the Bury service will
be extended to Ashton and the Rochdale/Oldham trams will terminate in
Exchange Square. This will allow the completion of the outbound
platform and the finishing of the existing outbound track; the inbound
platform is largely complete, with the columns for the shelter already
erected. Paving has commenced from the Library side, and the last
track work (two trailing junctions) will be completed over the next
few weeks.
The opportunity will be taken to relay a large part of the
Eccles/Media City line, which will close on the same date. It is
expected that services to Media City will resume early August, and the
rest later in the month.
The following is the state of 2cc.
Victoria Station - St. Mary's Gate. Complete. Trams Running.
St. Mary's Gate - King Street. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
King Street - Albert Square. Track and road surface complete.
Albert Square - St. Peter's Square. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
St. Peter's Square - Windmill Street. New inbound track complete and
surfaced. Outbound track may be re-laid.
Dr. Barry Worthington

MediaCity is a pair of terminating platforms. It seems awkward to me;
the drivers have to change ends. There is the space for a double loop.
Is that planned?

Why would it? Aren't all the Metrolink termini simple buffer stops? It's
not as if the trams are single-ended. Those are usually the only trams that
have terminus loops.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said "terminating" platforms. Some routes go
into Mediacity and don't go back where they came from, the go on their
way. Changing ends in the middle of a route seems a pain.

Michael Bell



--

[Recliner]

Post by Michael Bell
s.eternal-september.org>

Post by Recliner

Post by Michael Bell

Post by trainguard
We are now nearing the second (and final!) St. Peter's Square blockade
From Sunday, 26 June, through services via St. Peter's Square will
cease until the end of August. Services from the Cornbrook direction
will terminate at Deansgate-Castlefield, while the Bury service will
be extended to Ashton and the Rochdale/Oldham trams will terminate in
Exchange Square. This will allow the completion of the outbound
platform and the finishing of the existing outbound track; the inbound
platform is largely complete, with the columns for the shelter already
erected. Paving has commenced from the Library side, and the last
track work (two trailing junctions) will be completed over the next
few weeks.
The opportunity will be taken to relay a large part of the
Eccles/Media City line, which will close on the same date. It is
expected that services to Media City will resume early August, and the
rest later in the month.
The following is the state of 2cc.
Victoria Station - St. Mary's Gate. Complete. Trams Running.
St. Mary's Gate - King Street. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
King Street - Albert Square. Track and road surface complete.
Albert Square - St. Peter's Square. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
St. Peter's Square - Windmill Street. New inbound track complete and
surfaced. Outbound track may be re-laid.
Dr. Barry Worthington

MediaCity is a pair of terminating platforms. It seems awkward to me;
the drivers have to change ends. There is the space for a double loop.
Is that planned?

Why would it? Aren't all the Metrolink termini simple buffer stops? It's
not as if the trams are single-ended. Those are usually the only trams that
have terminus loops.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said "terminating" platforms. Some routes go
into Mediacity and don't go back where they came from, the go on their
way. Changing ends in the middle of a route seems a pain.

I wouldn't have thought it would take more than a couple of minutes, and it
lets the driver check that no-one is left on-board. Changing ends in a
short tram is easier than in a longer train, and drivers do that all the
time.

I don't think any of the UK's modern light rail networks use turning loops
do they?

[Charlie Hulme]

Post by Recliner

Post by Michael Bell
Sorry, I shouldn't have said "terminating" platforms. Some
routes go into Mediacity and don't go back where they came
from, the go on their way. Changing ends in the middle of a
route seems a pain.

I wouldn't have thought it would take more than a couple of
minutes, and it lets the driver check that no-one is left
on-board.

Piccadilly (and for the moment Exchange Square) is the only place
where there is much chance to check whether anyone is left on
board, as some reverse beyond the station before returning to
start from the other side.

At all other termini passengers are usually piling on while
people are still getting off.

Post by Recliner
changing ends in a short tram is easier than in a longer
train, and drivers do that all the time.

Double Metrolink sets are quite long, but it's not really a
significant problem. Tram tracks beyond MediaCity stop would not
enhance the landscape.

Post by Recliner
I don't think any of the UK's modern light rail networks use
turning loops do they?

There was one at Fleetwood, but is it still used?

Charlie

[Charles Ellson]

On Sun, 22 May 2016 21:50:00 +0100, Charlie Hulme

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Recliner

Post by Michael Bell
Sorry, I shouldn't have said "terminating" platforms. Some
routes go into Mediacity and don't go back where they came
from, the go on their way. Changing ends in the middle of a
route seems a pain.

I wouldn't have thought it would take more than a couple of
minutes, and it lets the driver check that no-one is left
on-board.

Piccadilly (and for the moment Exchange Square) is the only place
where there is much chance to check whether anyone is left on
board, as some reverse beyond the station before returning to
start from the other side.
At all other termini passengers are usually piling on while
people are still getting off.

Post by Recliner
changing ends in a short tram is easier than in a longer
train, and drivers do that all the time.

Double Metrolink sets are quite long, but it's not really a
significant problem. Tram tracks beyond MediaCity stop would not
enhance the landscape.

Post by Recliner
I don't think any of the UK's modern light rail networks use
turning loops do they?

There was one at Fleetwood, but is it still used?

Fleetwood is (was?) a circular one-way street route. Starr Gate at the
other end has a loop but this seems to be now treated as part of the
depot with passengers being chucked off before the tram goes round it.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Recliner

Post by Michael Bell
Sorry, I shouldn't have said "terminating" platforms. Some
routes go into Mediacity and don't go back where they came
from, the go on their way. Changing ends in the middle of a
route seems a pain.

I wouldn't have thought it would take more than a couple of
minutes, and it lets the driver check that no-one is left
on-board.

Piccadilly (and for the moment Exchange Square) is the only place
where there is much chance to check whether anyone is left on
board, as some reverse beyond the station before returning to
start from the other side.
At all other termini passengers are usually piling on while
people are still getting off.

Post by Recliner
changing ends in a short tram is easier than in a longer
train, and drivers do that all the time.

Double Metrolink sets are quite long, but it's not really a
significant problem. Tram tracks beyond MediaCity stop would not enhance
the landscape.

Post by Recliner
I don't think any of the UK's modern light rail networks use
turning loops do they?

There was one at Fleetwood, but is it still used?

And at Pleasure Beach. AFAIK they are still used.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Recliner
I don't think any of the UK's modern light rail networks use
turning loops do they?

There was one at Fleetwood, but is it still used?

And at Pleasure Beach. AFAIK they are still used.

There are proposals to add a loop to the Croydon tramway.

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Recliner
I don't think any of the UK's modern light rail networks use
turning loops do they?

There was one at Fleetwood, but is it still used?

And at Pleasure Beach. AFAIK they are still used.

There are proposals to add a loop to the Croydon tramway.

Ah, yes, I'd forgotten about the proposed new Dingwall Loop. And of course
the existing town centre section already functions as a turning loop.

[d***@yahoo.co.uk]

On Mon, 23 May 2016 07:25:55 +0100, Graeme Wall

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Recliner
I don't think any of the UK's modern light rail networks use
turning loops do they?

There was one at Fleetwood, but is it still used?

And at Pleasure Beach. AFAIK they are still used.

And Little Bispham but I would not class Blackpool as one of modern
light networks as per Recliners question.
Ordinary trams in Blackpool have always been double ended, what the
loops on that system traditionally allowed was the stacking of large
numbers of trams ready to be dispatched as soon as crowd numbers
required especially the Pleasure Beach and L/Bispham ones where
services can quickly run back and forth along the short busy promenade
section . Pleasure Beach actually has two tracks for much of the loop
so that it could hold a large number of cars.
While the service cars were double ended the illuminated tableaux ones
some of which did/do have some controls at both ends would not have
looked right going the wrong way so in practice could be regarded as
single ended. A space rocket going backwards would have looked wrong
though Elon Musk has now managed it.

so the loops made it possible to run them .
Going by the comments of a driver I overheard who complaining "I
driving at the wrong end " when he was at the trailer controls of a
Progress Twin Car set they preferd to drive from the motor car
normally, perhaps the trailer controls could be less responsive so the
loops helped in that regard with those.

I'm not sure if the modern Flexity 2 trams that Blackpool now has for
everyday use the intermediate loops at P/beach and L/Bispham or not
but those loops are still used by what are now called the Heritage
Fleet and the illuminated tableaux.

G.Harman

[Michael Bell]

In message <430237147.485641536.446533.recliner.ng-***@news
.eternal-september.org>

Post by Recliner

Post by Michael Bell
s.eternal-september.org>

Post by Recliner

Post by Michael Bell

Post by trainguard
We are now nearing the second (and final!) St. Peter's Square blockade
From Sunday, 26 June, through services via St. Peter's Square will
cease until the end of August. Services from the Cornbrook direction
will terminate at Deansgate-Castlefield, while the Bury service will
be extended to Ashton and the Rochdale/Oldham trams will terminate in
Exchange Square. This will allow the completion of the outbound
platform and the finishing of the existing outbound track; the inbound
platform is largely complete, with the columns for the shelter already
erected. Paving has commenced from the Library side, and the last
track work (two trailing junctions) will be completed over the next
few weeks.
The opportunity will be taken to relay a large part of the
Eccles/Media City line, which will close on the same date. It is
expected that services to Media City will resume early August, and the
rest later in the month.
The following is the state of 2cc.
Victoria Station - St. Mary's Gate. Complete. Trams Running.
St. Mary's Gate - King Street. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
King Street - Albert Square. Track and road surface complete.
Albert Square - St. Peter's Square. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
St. Peter's Square - Windmill Street. New inbound track complete and
surfaced. Outbound track may be re-laid.
Dr. Barry Worthington

MediaCity is a pair of terminating platforms. It seems awkward to me;
the drivers have to change ends. There is the space for a double loop.
Is that planned?

Why would it? Aren't all the Metrolink termini simple buffer stops? It's
not as if the trams are single-ended. Those are usually the only trams that
have terminus loops.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said "terminating" platforms. Some routes go
into Mediacity and don't go back where they came from, the go on their
way. Changing ends in the middle of a route seems a pain.

I wouldn't have thought it would take more than a couple of minutes, and it
lets the driver check that no-one is left on-board. Changing ends in a
short tram is easier than in a longer train, and drivers do that all the
time.
I don't think any of the UK's modern light rail networks use turning loops
do they?

Manchester trams often run in double pairs, so it is a walk from one
end to t'other, and on a through route it is meaningless to "check
that nobody is left on board".

Manchester trams are double-ended and therefore also double-sided, but
on another sub-thread, it is deemed good design to have one-ended
trams because here is they need doors on only one side and the other
side can be all seats.

Michael Bell



--

[Charlie Hulme]

Post by Michael Bell
Manchester trams are double-ended and therefore also
double-sided, but on another sub-thread, it is deemed good
design to have one-ended trams because here is they need doors
on only one side and the other side can be all seats.

Like the Talyllyn Railway then.

There's no way that would work with Manchester's track layouts as
there are two triangular junctions, as I have already mentioned.
I'm quite surprised to hear there are none needed in Amsterdam.

And single-ended means you can't have crossovers for occasional
reversing, such as the one in Aytoun Street which is used to turn
back if a blockage of the main road between there and Piccadilly
station, or a problem in the station itself, occurs.

You'd need a lot of loops too: one at Cornbrook (which is on a
viaduct) for the current Airport service, one at Shaw for the
short workings which terminate there, one at Timperley for when
Network Rail's signalling goes tits-up, and so on.

MediaCity is being served all day by double Eccles cars at the
moment, but in normal circs this only happens at the quietest
times, and only single units would be used.

Charlie

[m***@wrg.org.uk]

Post by Charlie Hulme

Post by Michael Bell
Manchester trams are double-ended and therefore also
double-sided, but on another sub-thread, it is deemed good
design to have one-ended trams because here is they need doors
on only one side and the other side can be all seats.

Like the Talyllyn Railway then.
There's no way that would work with Manchester's track layouts as
there are two triangular junctions, as I have already mentioned.

That's not necessarily a problem, so long as every terminus or other turning point has a loop. Vienna has various triangular junctions where lines meet the circle around the city centre, and all its trams are single-sided and single-ended.

Post by Charlie Hulme
I'm quite surprised to hear there are none needed in Amsterdam.

A small number of double-ended trams are needed for one route, as I mentioned elsewhere.

Post by Charlie Hulme
And single-ended means you can't have crossovers for occasional
reversing, such as the one in Aytoun Street which is used to turn
back if a blockage of the main road between there and Piccadilly
station, or a problem in the station itself, occurs.

True. The whole system would have needed to have been designed for it from the start - which, given the number of conversions of existing railway lines, probably wouldn't have made sense.

Post by Charlie Hulme
You'd need a lot of loops too: one at Cornbrook (which is on a
viaduct) for the current Airport service, one at Shaw for the
short workings which terminate there, one at Timperley for when
Network Rail's signalling goes tits-up, and so on.

True.

Martin L

[Recliner]

Post by Michael Bell
.eternal-september.org>

Post by Recliner

Post by Michael Bell
s.eternal-september.org>

Post by Recliner

Post by Michael Bell

Post by trainguard
We are now nearing the second (and final!) St. Peter's Square blockade
From Sunday, 26 June, through services via St. Peter's Square will
cease until the end of August. Services from the Cornbrook direction
will terminate at Deansgate-Castlefield, while the Bury service will
be extended to Ashton and the Rochdale/Oldham trams will terminate in
Exchange Square. This will allow the completion of the outbound
platform and the finishing of the existing outbound track; the inbound
platform is largely complete, with the columns for the shelter already
erected. Paving has commenced from the Library side, and the last
track work (two trailing junctions) will be completed over the next
few weeks.
The opportunity will be taken to relay a large part of the
Eccles/Media City line, which will close on the same date. It is
expected that services to Media City will resume early August, and the
rest later in the month.
The following is the state of 2cc.
Victoria Station - St. Mary's Gate. Complete. Trams Running.
St. Mary's Gate - King Street. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
King Street - Albert Square. Track and road surface complete.
Albert Square - St. Peter's Square. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
St. Peter's Square - Windmill Street. New inbound track complete and
surfaced. Outbound track may be re-laid.
Dr. Barry Worthington

MediaCity is a pair of terminating platforms. It seems awkward to me;
the drivers have to change ends. There is the space for a double loop.
Is that planned?

Why would it? Aren't all the Metrolink termini simple buffer stops? It's
not as if the trams are single-ended. Those are usually the only trams that
have terminus loops.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said "terminating" platforms. Some routes go
into Mediacity and don't go back where they came from, the go on their
way. Changing ends in the middle of a route seems a pain.

I wouldn't have thought it would take more than a couple of minutes, and it
lets the driver check that no-one is left on-board. Changing ends in a
short tram is easier than in a longer train, and drivers do that all the
time.
I don't think any of the UK's modern light rail networks use turning loops
do they?

Manchester trams often run in double pairs, so it is a walk from one
end to t'other, and on a through route it is meaningless to "check
that nobody is left on board".
Manchester trams are double-ended and therefore also double-sided, but
on another sub-thread, it is deemed good design to have one-ended
trams because here is they need doors on only one side and the other
side can be all seats.

They're also cheaper, and allow the space that would have been used by the
second cab to be occupied by passengers.

So a classic network that already has turning loops continues to buy new
single-ended trams, and that's true in many European cities that never got
rid of all their trams. But all-new networks can't usually squeeze turning
loops into every reversing point, and so have no choice but to use
double-ended vehicles.

[BevanPrice]

Post by trainguard
We are now nearing the second (and final!) St. Peter's Square blockade From Sunday, 26 June, through services via St. Peter's Square will cease until the end of August. Services from the Cornbrook direction will terminate at Deansgate-Castlefield, while the Bury service will be extended to Ashton and the Rochdale/Oldham trams will terminate in Exchange Square. This will allow the completion of the outbound platform and the finishing of the existing outbound track; the inbound platform is largely complete, with the columns for the shelter already erected. Paving has commenced from the Library side, and the last track work (two trailing junctions) will be completed over the next few weeks.
The opportunity will be taken to relay a large part of the Eccles/Media City line, which will close on the same date. It is expected that services to Media City will resume early August, and the rest later in the month.
The following is the state of 2cc.
Victoria Station - St. Mary's Gate. Complete. Trams Running.
St. Mary's Gate - King Street. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
King Street - Albert Square. Track and road surface complete.
Albert Square - St. Peter's Square. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
St. Peter's Square - Windmill Street. New inbound track complete and surfaced. Outbound track may be re-laid.
Dr. Barry Worthington

To go OT a bit. BBC North West TV reported tonight (25 May) that some
idiot blocked Metrolink with a car near Etihad Stadium - upsetting
people heading there for a concert by Mr Bruce Springsteen...

[BevanPrice]

Post by BevanPrice

Post by trainguard
We are now nearing the second (and final!) St. Peter's Square blockade
From Sunday, 26 June, through services via St. Peter's Square will
cease until the end of August. Services from the Cornbrook direction
will terminate at Deansgate-Castlefield, while the Bury service will
be extended to Ashton and the Rochdale/Oldham trams will terminate in
Exchange Square. This will allow the completion of the outbound
platform and the finishing of the existing outbound track; the inbound
platform is largely complete, with the columns for the shelter already
erected. Paving has commenced from the Library side, and the last
track work (two trailing junctions) will be completed over the next
few weeks.
The opportunity will be taken to relay a large part of the
Eccles/Media City line, which will close on the same date. It is
expected that services to Media City will resume early August, and the
rest later in the month.
The following is the state of 2cc.
Victoria Station - St. Mary's Gate. Complete. Trams Running.
St. Mary's Gate - King Street. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
King Street - Albert Square. Track and road surface complete.
Albert Square - St. Peter's Square. Track laying and excavation for track bed.
St. Peter's Square - Windmill Street. New inbound track complete and
surfaced. Outbound track may be re-laid.
Dr. Barry Worthington

To go OT a bit. BBC North West TV reported tonight (25 May) that some
idiot blocked Metrolink with a car near Etihad Stadium - upsetting
people heading there for a concert by Mr Bruce Springsteen...

Forgot to include link (in Manchester Evening News):

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/etihad-bruce-springsteen-tram-delays-11386488#ICID=nsm

[Charlie Hulme]

Post by BevanPrice
To go OT a bit. BBC North West TV reported tonight (25 May) that
some idiot blocked Metrolink with a car near Etihad Stadium -
upsetting people heading there for a concert by Mr Bruce
Springsteen...

Not to mention various other problems on the same afternoon,
including a collision between a tram and a bus, and the total
gridlock on the roads in the city which happens, to some extent,
on any day when it rains.

Looking at the pictures in the MEN, it seems that a few strong
blokes could have shoved the car out of the way on to the nearby
grass area - and in any case only one track was blocked so why
couldn't single line working be implemented at least to get
people to the Etihad?

When there's a big event on in Manchester, it basically becomes a
no-go area for everyone else.

There's a railway - the freight-only Ashburys - Philips Park line
- passing close to the Etihad, maybe the rich owners of Man City
could pay for a basic station for use by an events-only service?

Charlie

[Basil Jet]

Post by BevanPrice
To go OT a bit. BBC North West TV reported tonight (25 May) that
some idiot blocked Metrolink with a car near Etihad Stadium -
upsetting people heading there for a concert by Mr Bruce
Springsteen...

Not to mention various other problems on the same afternoon, including a
collision between a tram and a bus, and the total gridlock on the roads
in the city which happens, to some extent, on any day when it rains.
Looking at the pictures in the MEN, it seems that a few strong blokes
could have shoved the car out of the way on to the nearby grass area -
and in any case only one track was blocked so why couldn't single line
working be implemented at least to get people to the Etihad?
When there's a big event on in Manchester, it basically becomes a no-go
area for everyone else.
There's a railway - the freight-only Ashburys - Philips Park line -
passing close to the Etihad, maybe the rich owners of Man City could pay
for a basic station for use by an events-only service?
Charlie

LOL.

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