Passing through closed stations.

[Graham Harrison]

I passed through 3 closed Underground stations on the same day.

Warren Street (Victoria Line) - we stopped momentarily which I guess is to
do with ATO (doors did not open). Not sure about tape.
Wimbledon Park - passed without apparent slowing. Tape all round the
platform.
Notting Hill (Circle) - passed at a fast jog. Tape all round the platform.

Which set me wondering. What are the rules for passing through stations
where work is in progress?

And to expand slightly beyond LUL with Glastonbury approaching I know they
put a speed limit on trains passing through Castle Cary (20 mph I believe)
so do the same rules apply where large crowds are expected?

[dave]

On Jun 10, 7:28 am, "Graham Harrison"

Post by Graham Harrison
I passed through 3 closed Underground stations on the same day.
Warren Street (Victoria Line) - we stopped momentarily which I guess is to
do with ATO (doors did not open).   Not sure about tape.
Wimbledon Park - passed without apparent slowing.   Tape all round the
platform.
Notting Hill (Circle) - passed at a fast jog.   Tape all round the platform.
Which set me wondering.   What are the rules for passing through stations
where work is in progress?
And to expand slightly beyond LUL with Glastonbury approaching I know they
put a speed limit on trains passing through Castle Cary (20 mph I believe)
so do the same rules apply where large crowds are expected?

At LU stations, the train must pass the station starter at 5mph. There
are certain exceptions such as between Hammersmith and Acton Town and
on the Metropolitan line. On NR lines where LU trains run, their rules
state that it's the normal line speed, unless there's a lower speed
for station limits.

The reason on LU is that the station starter has a short overlap - set
to 5mph.

[h***@yahoo.co.uk]

On Jun 10, 7:28 am, "Graham Harrison"

Post by Graham Harrison
I passed through 3 closed Underground stations on the same day.
Warren Street (Victoria Line) - we stopped momentarily which I guess is to
do with ATO (doors did not open). Not sure about tape.
Wimbledon Park - passed without apparent slowing. Tape all round the
platform.
Notting Hill (Circle) - passed at a fast jog. Tape all round the platform.
Which set me wondering. What are the rules for passing through stations
where work is in progress?
And to expand slightly beyond LUL with Glastonbury approaching I know they
put a speed limit on trains passing through Castle Cary (20 mph I believe)
so do the same rules apply where large crowds are expected?

At LU stations, the train must pass the station starter at 5mph. There
are certain exceptions such as between Hammersmith and Acton Town and
on the Metropolitan line. On NR lines where LU trains run, their rules
state that it's the normal line speed, unless there's a lower speed
for station limits.

Yes, I have seen Metropolitan Line trains going through Chalfont &
Latimer at speed.

[simon]

On Jun 10, 7:28 am, "Graham Harrison"

Post by Graham Harrison
I passed through 3 closed Underground stations on the same day.
Warren Street (Victoria Line) - we stopped momentarily which I guess is to
do with ATO (doors did not open). Not sure about tape.
Wimbledon Park - passed without apparent slowing. Tape all round the
platform.
Notting Hill (Circle) - passed at a fast jog. Tape all round the platform.
Which set me wondering. What are the rules for passing through stations
where work is in progress?
And to expand slightly beyond LUL with Glastonbury approaching I know they
put a speed limit on trains passing through Castle Cary (20 mph I believe)
so do the same rules apply where large crowds are expected?

At LU stations, the train must pass the station starter at 5mph. There
are certain exceptions such as between Hammersmith and Acton Town and
on the Metropolitan line. On NR lines where LU trains run, their rules
state that it's the normal line speed, unless there's a lower speed
for station limits.

Yes, I have seen Metropolitan Line trains going through Chalfont & Latimer
at speed.

Used to slow down to almost stop at Angel when they were at that 15 years or
so ago.

Cheers,
Simon

[Clive]

Post by dave
On NR lines where LU trains run, their rules
state that it's the normal line speed, unless there's a lower speed
for station limits.

Why should lines within station limits be lower than in the section?

[Charles Ellson]

Post by Clive

Post by dave
On NR lines where LU trains run, their rules
state that it's the normal line speed, unless there's a lower speed
for station limits.

Why should lines within station limits be lower than in the section?

They need to be (exceptionally not generally) at a number of stations
due to deviation of the route from a straight line (e.g. Willesden and
Harrow on the DC line).

[Clive]

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by Clive

Post by dave
On NR lines where LU trains run, their rules
state that it's the normal line speed, unless there's a lower speed
for station limits.

Why should lines within station limits be lower than in the section?

They need to be (exceptionally not generally) at a number of stations
due to deviation of the route from a straight line (e.g. Willesden and
Harrow on the DC line).

Station Limits is nothing to do with stations for passengers but is the
term for the total area controlled by a bobby (signaler) and the line
runs in the most extreme circumstances from the home signal (first under
the bobbies control) to the outermost advanced starter (last under the
bobbies control) from there to the next box is the section or block
section if you prefer, sometimes divided by a signal called an IBS or
Intermediate Block Section signal. I know this is old operations but I
believe still continues on some parts of the system.

[Charles Ellson]

Post by simon

On Jun 10, 7:28 am, "Graham Harrison"

Post by Graham Harrison
I passed through 3 closed Underground stations on the same day.
Warren Street (Victoria Line) - we stopped momentarily which I guess is to
do with ATO (doors did not open). Not sure about tape.
Wimbledon Park - passed without apparent slowing. Tape all round the
platform.
Notting Hill (Circle) - passed at a fast jog. Tape all round the platform.
Which set me wondering. What are the rules for passing through stations
where work is in progress?
And to expand slightly beyond LUL with Glastonbury approaching I know they
put a speed limit on trains passing through Castle Cary (20 mph I believe)
so do the same rules apply where large crowds are expected?

At LU stations, the train must pass the station starter at 5mph. There
are certain exceptions such as between Hammersmith and Acton Town and
on the Metropolitan line. On NR lines where LU trains run, their rules
state that it's the normal line speed, unless there's a lower speed
for station limits.

Yes, I have seen Metropolitan Line trains going through Chalfont & Latimer
at speed.

Used to slow down to almost stop at Angel when they were at that 15 years or
so ago.

Angel is a tube station where IIRC the rules are different. It is an
unusual event for a train not to stop at a tube station and passengers
on the platform will often not have a visual warning of approach.

[Clive]

Post by Graham Harrison
I passed through 3 closed Underground stations on the same day.
Warren Street (Victoria Line) - we stopped momentarily which I guess is
to do with ATO (doors did not open). Not sure about tape.
Wimbledon Park - passed without apparent slowing. Tape all round the
platform.
Notting Hill (Circle) - passed at a fast jog. Tape all round the platform.
Which set me wondering. What are the rules for passing through
stations where work is in progress?
And to expand slightly beyond LUL with Glastonbury approaching I know
they put a speed limit on trains passing through Castle Cary (20 mph I
believe) so do the same rules apply where large crowds are expected?

In the late 60s and early 70s LU trains had to drive though closed
stations at 5mph because of the short overlap, this did not apply to BR
as all their overlaps were standard regardless of line speed.

[D7666]

And this neatly ties in with the other thread where old relays were
discussed, its not merely the train must be driven at 5 mph, the
relevant berth track will have a timer on it, the starter will not
clear if the timing values are not met by the train.

Even on the Victoria line, such control is *I think* not part of ATO
but ATP, altohugh what stops the train is again *I think* a code trip.
I have nothing to do with the Vic line old or new signals control so
am guessing, but it is true that old Vic line ATP is all trackside
based by relays (it certainly is on the Central) ; I am sure an expert
will be along to correct me if I be wrong.

--
Nick

[darkprince66]

On Jun 10, 7:28 am, "Graham Harrison"

Post by Graham Harrison
I passed through 3 closed Underground stations on the same day.
Warren Street (Victoria Line) - we stopped momentarily which I guess is to
do with ATO (doors did not open).   Not sure about tape.
Wimbledon Park - passed without apparent slowing.   Tape all round the
platform.
Notting Hill (Circle) - passed at a fast jog.   Tape all round the platform.
Which set me wondering.   What are the rules for passing through stations
where work is in progress?
And to expand slightly beyond LUL with Glastonbury approaching I know they
put a speed limit on trains passing through Castle Cary (20 mph I believe)
so do the same rules apply where large crowds are expected?

In a similar manner to Castle Cary, there used to be 50mph limits
through Birmingham International when there was a major exhibition on
at the NEC, I don't think it applies anymore though.

Rich

http://www.flickr.com/photos/darkprince66/

[Neil Williams]

On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:59:41 -0700 (PDT), darkprince66

Post by darkprince66
In a similar manner to Castle Cary, there used to be 50mph limits
through Birmingham International when there was a major exhibition on
at the NEC, I don't think it applies anymore though.

Understandable. Being on the platform at BHI when a Pendo goes
through at full pelt is exhilirating to say the least - the platforms
are narrow and enclosed, which accentuates the effect.

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK